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  1. #1
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    New Macromedia website

    Well it looks like they have finally done it. Macromedia has launched their new site http://www.macromedia.com/ with some of the forums, Exchange, and a bunch of other sections all in Flash. Very cool. Nothing like putting your money where your mouth is!

    geof

  2. #2
    Prolific Blogger silver trophy Technosailor's Avatar
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    /clicks HTML version....
    Aaron Brazell
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  3. #3
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    Hmmm, well there doesn't seem to be a HTML version to click. Especially with this downloads page >> http://www.macromedia.com/cfusion/tdrc/index.cfm

    Well-built Flash apps have a place on the web that not a lot of people have opened their eyes up to. Its no longer about cheesy animation; there are many circumstances where a quick-loading, easy to understand Flash app kicks butt all over a Javascript form & page reload nightmare.

    Props to Macromedia for pushing the envelope.

    geof
    Last edited by Geof Harries; Mar 5, 2003 at 13:38.

  4. #4
    Prolific Blogger silver trophy Technosailor's Avatar
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    Click on the 'Accessiblity' link on the bottom. Then choose HTML.
    Aaron Brazell
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  5. #5
    gingham dress, army boots... silver trophy redux's Avatar
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    cute, yes, but i'm not sure i like the "serve flash first, ask questions later" approach. at least, if you access the site in lynx, it gets you straight to the html version.
    would have been nice to give the user the choice first, though...
    re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively
    [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.]
    WaSP Accessibility Task Force Member
    splintered.co.uk | photographia.co.uk | redux.deviantart.com

  6. #6
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    s'nice. Doesnt defer from the original that much in my opinion. I hate the loading bar in the top left when it first loads. Makes you think you are rendering something or compiiling something which the words they use.

    Do agree with redux on not being given the option first to select HTML. Lets face it after the first time you have gone "ooohh pretty" the HTML option does the job. The Lynx touch is nice, they could have extended it further though.

  7. #7
    1-800-JMULDER JMulder's Avatar
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    Meh, I'll go for the HTML version. All I search for on Macromedia is information and can't care about the package it comes in.
    Jeroen Mulder

    w: www.jeroenmulder.com

  8. #8
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    I don't agree with Redux on not being given the option to first select HTML. Now, don't get me wrong, if I need to get information quickly and then be on my merry way, then I will always choose "HTML version" over "Flash version", not to mention Skip Intro

    But Macromedia has made a very deliberate choice in presenting Flash first, and HTML second. If they want to promote, extend and of course, sell, Flash as a new application standard, they need to show that it can run full-deal on a corporate level site. I personally like the way the site works and interacts in Flash.

    If nobody is willing to take the step to push the web in a new, positive direction, then how we will ever get there? I realize that Flash has its drawbacks (where's my right click to open the link in a new Tab?) but in this case, I think the effort should be applauded.

    geof

  9. #9
    runat="server" Golgotha's Avatar
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    some people are just Flash haters...

  10. #10
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    Isn't the overall goal of Macromedia to sell its product? And what better way to sell product than to show off pretty images.

    It's marketing plain and simple.

    Think about the impression you get when you walk into your favorite clothing store. It has a certain look about it -- the employees are most wearing something from the store -- they have music playing that matches the image.

    Why is this? Marketing -- they are trying to sell clothes. Same goes for Macromedia they are selling a product.

    Does the new site impress me as a designer who already has the product -- yeah I like it. But like everyone else said HTML would be fine for me now that I've seen it. But then how often do I go to Macromedia's site?

    Overall it does an excellant job of marketing and selling product.

    Just my 2 cents.


    Craig
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    Web, Graphic & Marketing Communications
    http://www.SmallFarmDesign.com

  11. #11
    runat="server" Golgotha's Avatar
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    yeah, maybe they should have gone the way of SitePoint and just did CSS with 3 graphics...

  12. #12
    Prolific Blogger silver trophy Technosailor's Avatar
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    small,

    While I know the point you're trying to make, it doesn't hold up in my book. Macromedia should have gotten the clue a long time ago that the trend is away from Flash sites and that Flash, while a noble tool in itself, is not an ideal site design system. As a side, I hope they are tracking usage of their new site (whether people are using the html or the flash version).

    To me, a good analogy (and I know I'll get flamed) is like having a woman who can't carry a tune, sounds like she's strangling a shrieking goose and offering her a record deal. It doesn't make sense. Yeah, she may just want to sell herself as a singer but that doesn't make her a good singer. Macromedia should really, for the sake of the industry, re-evaluate their direction with Flash. They should, IMHO, stop pushing Flash as a web-development tool and start promoting it's use as a very necessary and apt web marketing tool. Sega essentially did this when they figured out they couldn't beat Nintendo and Sony at the video-game system market. They reformed their marketing focus and now are quite successful at making stellar video games.

    That's just my point of view on flash.

    Aaron
    Aaron Brazell
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  13. #13
    runat="server" Golgotha's Avatar
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    Sketch- I think you're wrong.

  14. #14
    Prolific Blogger silver trophy Technosailor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Golgotha
    Sketch- I think you're wrong.
    I know. And I think you're wrong.

    'sokay. We can still be friends.
    Aaron Brazell
    Technosailor



  15. #15
    runat="server" Golgotha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sketch
    I know. And I think you're wrong.

    'sokay. We can still be friends.

    of course...slaps Sketch on the back...

    but little does Sketch know, that he's now walking around with a "I love Flash" paper taped on his back

  16. #16
    Prolific Blogger silver trophy Technosailor's Avatar
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    /thinks about designers

    simple minds simple pleasures
    Aaron Brazell
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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sketch
    While I know the point you're trying to make, it doesn't hold up in my book. Macromedia should have gotten the clue a long time ago that the trend is away from Flash sites and that Flash, while a noble tool in itself, is not an ideal site design system. As a side, I hope they are tracking usage of their new site (whether people are using the html or the flash version).

    I'm not sure how you can justify the 'Trend' is going away. I would agree that the trend of doing a flash site just to do a flash site is going out -- but sites that are actually productive by using flash, I think that trend is just starting.

    Honestly, I don't know if there is and ideal design system. HTML, JAVA, Flash, etc. they all have their problems. Older browser issues, Mac vs. PC, PDA's WebTV, Netscape vs. Explorer the lsit goes on why there isn't an ideal.

    I would have to wager that most people going to macromedia's site don't mind the fact that they used their own tools to design their site.

    Flash has its value as long as it used for more than spinning logos.

    Craig
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  18. #18
    runat="server" Golgotha's Avatar
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    ut oh, now you did it smallfarm...
    notice I just said he was wrong and left it at that, now you really wanna go down that road?
    He's a Flash hater, let them go.....

    runs out of this thread before it really heats up.

  19. #19
    Prolific Blogger silver trophy Technosailor's Avatar
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    /me gonna be good
    Aaron Brazell
    Technosailor



  20. #20
    SitePoint Wizard silver trophy Jeremy W.'s Avatar
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    Let's look at it from the user's perspective.

    User 1:
    Doesn't have flash installed. Is told to go to macromedia.com to get Flash. Can't.

    User 2:
    Is on a slow connection, and so has disabled flash. Can't view site.

    User 3:
    Is on a slow connection, so site takes 5 minutes to load each page. Leaves.

    User 4:
    Goes to MM site, enjoys experience, continues to use products.

    User 5:
    Is a developer/designer. Has no choice but to use MM products, views site becuase he has to.

    User 6:
    Is a "decision maker" at a company. Has heard the IT and design guys say flash is bad, but sees sites like MM show some cool things. Doesn't care about accessibility, doesn't realise the thought that's gone into it and demands a site "like MM's".

    For each and every one of these users, except the idiot decision maker, nothing changed. So, the only things I can see that MM has done is to:

    1. Change the CEO's mind and make the IT/design team's jobs harder
    2. Show flash first instead of second

    Personally, I don't think the sacrifice is worth the potential benefit that showing an all flash site might have.

    I'm not going to get into the whole metrics of flash versus non flash sites, but suffice to say that the flash community was at it's height 2 years ago, and if things were going to pick up, it would have been at it's height.

    Flash is only still around becuase nothing has risen to take it's place yet.

    I believe MM would be better served by watching for better ways to do what it does, and looking for ways to empower designers to be prepared for User 6.
    SVP Marketing, SoCast SRM
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  21. #21
    runat="server" Golgotha's Avatar
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    cars are only still around because nothing has risen to take it's place yet.

    your loadtime argument holds NO water.

    Flash is employed on more websites today than It ever has been and will only increase more with the pocket PC taking power....

    gosh darn it, I didn't want to get involved!!!

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremy W.
    Let's look at it from the user's perspective.

    User 1:
    Doesn't have flash installed. Is told to go to macromedia.com to get Flash. Can't.
    Flash isn't new. Most people have flash close to 100%. This was a valid argument when flash 3 was out.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremy W.
    User 2:
    Is on a slow connection, and so has disabled flash. Can't view site.

    User 3:

    Is on a slow connection, so site takes 5 minutes to load each page. Leaves.
    A designer still needs to use common sense. I've been on straight HTML pages that take five minutes to load. Flash doesn't give a designer the creative freedom to build a site that is overloaded.



    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremy W.
    User 6:
    Is a "decision maker" at a company. Has heard the IT and design guys say flash is bad, but sees sites like MM show some cool things. Doesn't care about accessibility, doesn't realise the thought that's gone into it and demands a site "like MM's".
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremy W.

    Flash is only still around becuase nothing has risen to take it's place yet.
    So then we would be having a discussion over this other product and its plusses and minuses. If it is good or bad. Like I said before Flash has its benefits it also has its downfalls.
    -------
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  23. #23
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    User 1:
    Doesn't have flash installed. Is told to go to macromedia.com to get Flash. Can't.


    Is that true for the current site and was it for the last one? I dont have a machine without flash installed so cant test. Dont the direct/url/to/flash_players/download links work, or is that just for the homepage?

  24. #24
    runat="server" Golgotha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by glenplake
    I dont have a machine without flash installed so cant test.
    I think that says it all...

  25. #25
    SitePoint Wizard silver trophy Jeremy W.'s Avatar
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    "Flash isn't new. Most people have flash close to 100%. This was a valid argument when flash 3 was out."

    You missed my point, as you missed most people's points. That's one user. The installed base is actually 92%, which doesn't take into account users 2-3.

    "A designer still needs to use common sense. I've been on straight HTML pages that take five minutes to load. Flash doesn't give a designer the creative freedom to build a site that is overloaded."

    Da, of course. It took 45 seconds for the site to load on my T1.

    "So then we would be having a discussion over this other product and its plusses and minuses. If it is good or bad. Like I said before Flash has its benefits it also has its downfalls."

    Again, you missed my point. My point was that if MM's entire reason for being is to push flash, they've missed the boat.

    ====

    Glen, not sure, I haven't uninstalled flash to check. You will get a prompt, but that's far from "usable", which is what the previous site certainly was.

    ====

    "I think that says it all..."

    Ah yes, the cross section of the web developer community being the gauge for the world at large. Seems everyone's missing the point.
    SVP Marketing, SoCast SRM
    Personal blog: Strategerize
    Twitter: @jeremywright


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