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  1. #26
    SitePoint Wizard creole's Avatar
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    too many posts against frames and not enough posts in favor of frames...

    Frames are a tool nothing more. They only suck when they are used by people who don't use them properly...

    Here is a good example of frames done really well...

    SixSides.com Select "theBOX"

    They frames within frames to get some amazingly creative effects.

    To end with, don't cut out a very useful tool just because some people use it improperly. That is almost like saying "I won't use Photoshop because so many people create terrible looking graphics with it"
    Adobe Certified Coldfusion MX 7 Developer
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  2. #27
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    There are reason then they are used bad why I don't like frames.
    • On screens with low resolution, little space is left for the main information.
    • The back-button might bring you back to the place where you first loaded a document with frames, not to the latest document you loaded.
    • You usually cannot manually copy the URL from the location field.
    • "View document source" shows only the source of the document loaded in the first frame in Netscape.
    • Every time you open a framed document from within a frame, your screen is sub-divided once more.
    • Frames take longer to load then most other layout managers.


    This is just a few reason why Frames are not very good. Now I agree people don't know how to use them and this make it even worse!
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  3. #28
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    I tend to agree with creole. They can be very useful at times. Some site owners don't want their inside pages bookmarked because they move them around a lot, so that isn't always an issue. And no one is really responsible for making their source code easily accessible, although you can find it if you really want to. And of course, you need to provide non-frames navigation and it's a good idea to have a plan in the event that a search engine finds on of your inside pages without the frame.

    I only have one public site that uses frames and have not had any problems getting it indexed in search engines at all. For a number of reasons, on that site, frames ended up being my best solution, but I'm very conservative with them and don't use multiple framesets on one page, for instance. The back button always seems to take you to the proper place.

    What I really, really hate, however, is when the designer doesn't allow scrolling in the navigation frame. That's a really big mistake that a lot of people who are more interested in appearance than functionality make.

  4. #29
    SitePoint Wizard creole's Avatar
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    stat_man...you make some good points but most of them are personal opinion or perceived.

    Everything you said comes back to my point about being well designed. If the designer knows what they are doing then those will not be problems.

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  5. #30
    SitePoint Addict Macromedia's Avatar
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    Well, here are my two cents:

    There is nothing really wrong with frames, but if you can avoid them, then you should. The faults are really minor, in my opinion, and frames can be a very cool device to achieve some really cool designs for your page.

    The only reason I see to use frames is if it benefits your design or if you have a navigation bar and want to make it easy to update the navigation bar without having to go to all the pages and updating it manually. The latter reason is why I used to use frames. I have since gotten Dreamweaver and now use their templates function to take care of this problem.

    So, if you can avoid frames then do, but if you need them then use them. There's nothing wrong with them (as long as your page is not a big site where frames' minor faults will not be acceptable).


    [Edited by Macromedia on 11-03-2000 at 01:48 AM]
    -Nick

  6. #31
    SitePoint Zealot thespian's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Elledan
    Originally posted by thespian
    Moving SHTML pages up to the Servers at my host and then "executing" them works just fine - but how can I emulate the "Server Side" on my home PC for testing purposes, or is this not possible?

    Thanx
    If you're using Windows you can use PWS in Windows 98 and IIS in Windows 2000.
    The above advice (and additional help via email from Elledan) has kept me happily purring along for the last while.

    Now I have a further question. I heard from someone the other day that whilst PWS is sufficient for me at the moment, when I start using ASP and I need to test the Server Side DataBase operation on my home PC I am going to need to upgrade to Windows 2000 and IIS. I'm not sure what he meant by this.

    I must just add that this guy is very highly rated (and he is over 40 mind! ) so I'm sure that if anything, I have misunderstood what he was trying to say. Can someone please clear this up for me, and if it is true - explain it?
    Bill Conté [Protected by Psalm 91]
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  7. #32
    I'm baaaaaaaaaaaaack! Fluffykins's Avatar
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    First off:

    Macromedia, wahay! someone else who uses Dreamweaver templates. Aren't they just a boon?

    My two penneth on frames is this:

    Used well they can be really useful. Yes there are downsides, but they can provide some useful features.

    If you know what you're doing with frames, go for it. I personally prefer using tables and templates, but remember not everyone uses Dreamweaver to build their sites and not everyone has access to this facility.

    Your best bet is to try out your site using frames, and using tables. Test it out and see which one works best for you. Every site is different, some suit frames, some don't. In the end it depends on your site, how you want it to look and what it's supposed to do.

    Ady

    v-technologies - Freelance Goodness.


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