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View Poll Results: What should I do??

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  • Since you don't have any MSSQL experence. Don't waste your money. Try MySQL instead.

    11 73.33%
  • MSSQL is pretty stright forward, I recommend you still buy it, even if you have no experence with it.

    0 0%
  • WHAT??? MSSQL on your personal computer?? Were you droped as a child? MSSQL is only for large companies.

    4 26.67%
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  1. #1
    Non-Member XX7509's Avatar
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    Talking At Edge of cliff, need a push!

    OK. I think I have decided just to quite whining and go ahead and purchase MSSQL, for $500.00. I leave the licensing up to the people who use my stuff. Most likey if they have a web site, they will either already have a license, or be abl to get one from their ISP/WPP.

    Just need a little encourgement though. I've never used MSSQL before. Would you recommend me going out and spending the $500.00 on it if I've never used it? If the SQL environment is fairly stright forward, I'm sure I can find code examples all other the place.

    Am I just crazy or are there other crazy people out there too? I mean... I am basically getting this for my personal use right now. I am in the process of starting a web business, I would like to create that message board script (similar to this one) for my first project, but I can't because I don't have a powerfull backend yet. Does anyone else own MSSQL on their personal computer??? Or do you just have it for work reasons, on a computer at work.

  2. #2
    SitePoint Enthusiast petersj's Avatar
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    I can't because I don't have a powerfull backend yet
    You could use Access or MySQL for development, you might want to save your $500 untill you're script is nearly finished.

  3. #3
    ALT.NET - because we need it silver trophybronze trophy dhtmlgod's Avatar
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    Why not use MSDE?

  4. #4
    Non-Member XX7509's Avatar
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    OH OH! I want to use MSDE. It just has a 2gb limit which I will most likley never reach. But there is a problem with that!

    1. Microsoft says, MSDE is NOT for commercial use. So... does this mean I can't develop applications with it, then sell them?

    2. The only way I know how to create a database with MSDE is by creating a MSAccess Project. But this then generates a *.adp?? file. I can't figure out how to access this though code via vb.net... I keep getting "Unreconized Database Format or Type"

  5. #5
    Sultan of Ping jofa's Avatar
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    Are we talking about SQL Server 2000 Developer Edition for $499?
    I think it's the best choice for you

    But there's another problem; you want to develop apps and sell them
    How many customers will be willing to get a production license for $4999, just because your application uses a Sql Server DB?
    Then MySql is a better choice



    MS Access is never a good choice...

  6. #6
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    Q. Can I include and redistribute MSDE as part of a stand-alone desktop application?

    A.

    If you obtained MSDE by licensing one of the following products or services, you are licensed to redistribute MSDE as part of a stand-alone desktop application:

    * MSDN« Universal, Enterprise, and Professional subscriptions
    * Microsoft Office XP Developer Edition
    * SQL Server 2000 Developer, Standard, and Enterprise Editions
    * Microsoft Visual Studio« .NET Architect, Developer, and Professional Editions*
    * Microsoft Visual FoxPro« 7.0 or 8.0


    Q. Can I include and redistribute MSDE as part of a client/server application?

    A.

    The following products and services enable you to redistribute MSDE as part of a client/server application:

    * ASP.NET Web Matrix*
    * MSDN Universal, Enterprise, and Professional subscriptions
    * Office XP Developer Edition
    * SQL Server 2000 Developer, Standard, and Enterprise Editions
    * Visual Studio .NET Architect, Developer, and Professional Editions*
    * Visual FoxPro 7.0 or 8.0

    Important: If you are using any data store other than MSDE please refer to the applicable EULA.
    * When obtained by downloading ASP.NET Web Matrix, MSDE is provided only for use in conjunction with an application developed by using ASP.NET Web Matrix.

  7. #7
    SitePoint Guru
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    So, are you building in ASP.NET?

    Edit:


    And...you can use the client tools in the Evaluation version of SQL Server 2000 indefinitely.

  8. #8
    Non-Member XX7509's Avatar
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    But there's another problem; you want to develop apps and sell them
    How many customers will be willing to get a production license for $4999, just because your application uses a Sql Server DB?
    Then MySql is a better choice
    I downloaded MySQL already, but I cant figure it out. All I get is a bunch of files that mean nothing to me. I can't locate a interface like access and MSSQL have which will allow me to create tables, fields, and set field propperties. I download a phpadmin which I thought would give me the option, but my computer dosn't reconize the php files, I downloaded and installed php4.3.1 and installed the phpadmin in the wwwroot dir of my pc, but it still does not reconize the php files. Maybe I need linux or somthing. This is really starting to annoy me. All I want to do is develop a script, but I can't find a backend for it. I was also told that MySQL, if you want to use it with a program, then sell the program, you still need to buy a pricy license...
    Last edited by XX7509; Feb 21, 2003 at 11:46.

  9. #9
    Sultan of Ping jofa's Avatar
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    Originally posted by XX7509
    ... I can't locate a interface like access and MSSQL have which will allow me to create tables, fields, and set field propperties. ...
    MySql Control Center maybe?

    The php problem:
    I guess you have IIS since you mention wwwroot,
    next thing to do is add an app mapping for php
    Go to IIS Manager and select Properties, App Config
    Is the .php extension listed?

  10. #10
    Non-Member XX7509's Avatar
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    no the php ext. is not in there.

  11. #11
    Sultan of Ping jofa's Avatar
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  12. #12
    Non-Member XX7509's Avatar
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    nope, and the ok box is still disabled so I can't add the mapping anyway. Something must be wrong, I can't figure it out. Not sure why it would be this difficualt, I know MSSQL is pretty pricy, but all you need to do is click the application file and everything's up and running. Not sure what the deal is with this.

  13. #13
    Sultan of Ping jofa's Avatar
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    Well, you needed php because you wanted to run phpMyAdmin, which you don't need when you have MySql Control Center?
    Correct?

    Next question; what language / server side script are you going to use? ASP or PHP? If ASP; which version? .old or .NET?

  14. #14
    Jamison DaDaHost's Avatar
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    Hi XX7509,

    It sounds like you are new to database driven web apps and that you are running IIS on a personal machine.

    I would recommend using ASP with an Access backend. This is a very easy combination to learn, and would make the product easier to sell and license to future customers. At a later date, you could offer a second version of your product that used a SQL Server backend for more $$. Upsizing from Access to SQL Server will be fairly trivial, and SQL Server gives you several performance boosting options (stored procedures, clustered indexes).

    Here are some ASP/Access/SQL Server Message boards to look at:

    http://forum.snitz.com/

    http://aspin.com/home/webapps/bbs

    Jamie

  15. #15
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    Since you've already got mySQL and PHP, I recommend you dump Microsoft's IIS - since it's utter s***e - and download Apache instead.

    The whole 3 of them; Apache, PHP and mySQL rocks - there is nothing on this green earth that can touch them - god's honest truth.

  16. #16
    Non-Member XX7509's Avatar
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    Well, you needed php because you wanted to run phpMyAdmin, which you don't need when you have MySql Control Center?
    Correct?
    I dunno. I also have the control center, but that too is not working.

    Since you've already got mySQL and PHP, I recommend you dump Microsoft's IIS - since it's utter s***e - and download Apache instead.
    I'm not new to programming, I had quite a bit of experence, but nothing with the web. I just started this type of development recently, and am still a little confused. I have used Access for a long time, but with many threads on this forum, releaized that Access is, mostly junk when it comes to Internet. I have had not problems with it in windows based applications that only support one user. It's really quite fast.

    Where could I get Apache?? Do I need it? As I said I am getting use to the Internet development now, and I have already downloaded more servers/database engines then I can keep track of, anything more and I'll go completely insane, I'm already part of the way there.

    I am planing on using VB.Net to do all of my development, I also have VC ++ 6.0 and VB 6.0... but I think I am going to put them aside for now, since this new version seems to cover all I'll need, maybe I'll keep C++ installed just incase.

  17. #17
    SitePoint Wizard gold trophysilver trophy
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    Use PostGRESQL for Windows: ftp://ftp10.us.postgresql.org/pub/po...7.3.1/Windows/

    You may also want to be aware the MS has been misleading it's customers about the SQL Server licensing: http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/53/29419.html

    A Washington court ruling could see SQL Server developers liable for millions of dollars in licensing fees.

  18. #18
    SitePoint Wizard gold trophysilver trophy
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    PS - if you're looking for a bundle of PHP, MySQL and Apache (+ phpMyAdmin for administration) head straight to http://www.firepages.com.au/ - it's real easy.

  19. #19
    Non-Member XX7509's Avatar
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    WOW! Thanks!

    BTW: What backend does this forum use? It seems to be rather fast, and there are a lot of subscribers!
    Last edited by XX7509; Feb 22, 2003 at 13:04.

  20. #20
    SitePoint Wizard gold trophysilver trophy
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    It uses vBulletin ( http://www.vbulletin.com ), an app written in PHP which you have to buy.

    Free alternatives which are well respected are phpBB http://www.phpbb.com and Invision http://www.invisionboard.com/ (free but you have to pay if you're going rebrand it).

    PS: if you're installing Firepages phpdev and already have PHP installed you'll need to rename the existing c:\windows\php.ini to something else (also if you installed MySQL before phpdev, look out for a file "my.cnf" - often in c:\ - rename that as well so that when phpdev boots, it uses it's own ini files).

  21. #21
    Prolific Blogger silver trophy Technosailor's Avatar
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    Originally posted by XX7509
    WOW! Thanks!

    BTW: What backend does this forum use? It seems to be rather fast, and there are a lot of subscribers!
    It uses Apache, PHP and MySQL
    Aaron Brazell
    Technosailor



  22. #22
    Non-Member XX7509's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Sketch
    It uses Apache, PHP and MySQL
    Cool! I really like this forum, at least I know it's possable to develop a greate forum without using Microsoft SQL. I thought I also heard that this vB.. was one of the most popular forums on the market, followed closely by UBB.Threads. That's cool!

  23. #23
    .NET inside archigamer's Avatar
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    Originally posted by XX7509


    Cool! I really like this forum, at least I know it's possable to develop a greate forum without using Microsoft SQL. I thought I also heard that this vB.. was one of the most popular forums on the market, followed closely by UBB.Threads. That's cool!
    i wouldnt mind seeing vB done in asp.net. (lines of code cut in half, also as a side note, i just theorize this, so plz dont flame me)

    in any case if you really want to develop things in asp.net you will have to use IIS + MSDE/ SQL Server. (Until Mono is stable anyways)

    Also when you go to get hosting you can get a MS SQL database with the package for about $40 extra a month thus the buyer doesnt have to pay the full $4999. (unless they host themselves)

    If you are considering on making a forum or something else in PHP chances are that the idea has already been done with it and is commercially available. one of the nice things about jumping on a new bandwagon like .net is that most of it commercial products have not been brought out yet. there are no commercial asp.net forums or shopping carts (to the best of my knowledge) meaning you could possibly one of the first in the market and give yourself a head start.

    Ya I would stay away from MS Access at all costs. Unfortunatly I have to use it right now for a client because he doesnt want to pay the extra money for the MS SQL Server. The main problem with it Access is that the queries (stored procedures) are a pain and the syntax is kinda funky when it gets to more complex queries also portability is a problem. (moving from MS Access to MS SQL is a very very very big pain in the butt)
    Last edited by archigamer; Feb 23, 2003 at 00:13.
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  24. #24
    Non-Member XX7509's Avatar
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  25. #25
    .NET inside archigamer's Avatar
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    no I am talking about software for sale. there are no commercial forums or shopping carts. If someone were to bring these out then you would be one of the first on the market.
    Web Finesse Studios
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