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  1. #1
    SitePoint Zealot
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    For research purpose, I would like to know whether or not you have used search engine positioning service companies (not search engine submission service), and what's the result? Which one is good and which one is bad?

    For improving search engine placement, do you prefer using a search engine positioning service company or adopt the do-it-yourself approach?
    Addto! e-commerce and Internet Marketing Directory
    Collects and refers hundreds of ecommerce, internet marketing, and website development solutions and advice to small business owners.
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  2. #2
    Sports Publisher mjames's Avatar
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    I personally think all that search engine positioning stuff is nonsense.

    If you do the correct things (use meta tags, ALT images, etc.), you will have just as good of chance of getting in. For the major engines that are most important to get listed in, I would submit them by hand.


  3. #3
    SitePoint Wizard
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    Originally posted by mjames86
    I personally think all that search engine positioning stuff is nonsense.

    If you do the correct things (use meta tags, ALT images, etc.), you will have just as good of chance of getting in. For the major engines that are most important to get listed in, I would submit them by hand.

    I totally agree! There are loads of resources on the net to help you develop great META tags and submit strategically. You can do a lot better than any search engine positioner can after a little experience.

    And never ever autosubmit your site. Most engines ban you if you try to do this. For the top 10 engines it simply isn't worth trusting any autosubmitter.

  4. #4
    SitePoint Columnist DanThies's Avatar
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    I agree that search engine positioning firms aren't going to do you much good, compared to what you could do by yourself. However, if you just don't want to deal with it, I guess you could try http://www.magic-city.net.

    To really improve your position, you have to change the content of your site. Just buying some META tags won't do it for you, and I completely agree that automated submission is a risky venture. While it's possible to automate the submission process without problems, very few submission firms do it the right way.

    Submit by hand, never submit more than once a month (try every five weeks to be safe), and only submit if your site has dropped out of an index or you've made significant changes to the content.

  5. #5

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    Many companies don't have the time or skills to learn about search engines, hence they turn to Internet Marketing companies.

    If you can learn it yourself thats better, but it takes hours of research each week to keep on top of things.

    We've put together a 'Questions to Ask' page which can help identify what to look for in a search engine placement company at http://www.web-site-promotion-servic...uestions.shtml
    Simon Conroy,
    PPC Bid Management and ROI Tracking Solutions
    www.BidBuddy.co.uk www.ROIstats.co.uk

  6. #6
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    I agree with Simon C...

    There are a lot of softwares that would even tell you what's wrong with your page. But, even the most expensive software around could not replace a search engine specialist who is on top of his/her game. Why?...

    Simple...Softwares depends also on HUMAN updates...most of these softwares companies are busy trying to promote their products and late on the much needed updates...by the time they get to updating their product the SE algorithm changes to something else.

    Yes...you could do it on your own...it takes only two things.

    1. About and up to $2000 in softwares (depending how techie you are)
    2. A life time of studying the SE (SE's and even directories are constantly evolving). And guess what? By the time you master the SE, you could pat yourself in the back and give yourself the title 'search engine specialist' and who knows, maybe your friend web site might need promotion in the SE (your first client). Word of CAUTION: #1 Rule: Don't start bragging your expertise - there are thousands of specialist who are always ready to take your challenge.

    Yes...it has something to do with meta tags...but not entirely...if you want your page to rank higher...then study each Search Engine...and you would be surprise on what they are looking in a site.

    If you don't have time and serious about the ranking of your site. I say hire a 'search engine specialist'. Word of Caution: Make sure the service fee would somehow produce the equivalent number of visitors.

    Example: $100/page/month and your calculated visitor worth is $0.10 then you should expect at least 1,000 visitors/month. If it is below your target number of visitors then find a sevice that could match your expectation.

    Note: The above example is the most common service rate excluding set-up fee if required. THERE are other service rate.
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  7. #7
    SitePoint Zealot Fruit & Veg's Avatar
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    I agree with the last 2 posts.
    Don't fool yourself into thinking that reading a couple of SE posts and adding some Meta Tags is going to make you number one. SEO's get paid for what they know, and what they know is usually more than they let on.

    However, if what they are offering sounds too good (eg submit you to 2 billion sites for $1) then it probably is.

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  8. #8
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    I learned a lot from you guys. I have a question for any one who might be able to answer. To promote your site, you can either buying a position on those paid-per-ranking search engines loke goto or you can hire some one to boost up your ranking in those free search engines like altavista. Which one is more cost effective? Paid-per-ranking or ranking experts.
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  9. #9
    SitePoint Columnist DanThies's Avatar
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    Wow, that really depends on what terms you're trying to optimize for. I don't see why you wouldn't do both. A lot of SEO's these days will charge per click-through, where they host a domain name and you pay for results. Similar to a pay-per-click engine in that you're buying traffic, but usually it's a fixed cost with SEOs at a dime or so per click. Much better than a typical top GoTo listing will cost you.

    The more competitive/popular the search term, the more it will cost for GoTo traffic, and the more it's likely to cost you for an SEO to get you to the top, if they can do it at all. Any SEO that tells you they can get you top-ten results for "real estate" is probably blowing smoke.

    Dan

  10. #10
    SitePoint Enthusiast
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    As far as meta tags being the end all and be all, some search engines will completely ignore meta tags, based on the abuse of the XXX sites, and keyword stuffing. For a great resource, I use http://www.spider-food.net. JK Bowman has a great forum there on search engines, and if you're just not up to the task, he does sell his services at a very reasonable price.
    Daniel Short
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  11. #11
    SitePoint Evangelist
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    As Simon said keeping on top of the chnages in the earch engine world does take a lot of time... Therefore if you are a business, then it is often cheaped to pay someone who is experienced in the field for optiumum results rather than invest expensive time continuingly learning...

    However, saying that, the main problem is the mass of mickey mouse companies out there how claim to be "specialists" and the reality is they have some college leaver thrown in at the deep end with about a days experience of browsing search engines.. Believe me I have seen it before.... When I first started in the net world I was thrown in at the deep end and was straight away in charge of clients sites... I had to learn and read very quickly...

    Just be sure you are going with a legititmate companie with a proven track record.... Any good company will gladly give you some proven track records...

    Hope that helps..



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  12. #12
    SitePoint Columnist DanThies's Avatar
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    The nice thing about finding the best SEO firms is that you can find them by searching for "search engine ranking" on the search engines. If *they* aren't in the top ten, let 'em explain why they can get you there. Take (edited) for example. Their ads are everywhere, are they in the top ten anywhere?

    Dan

    [Edited by simon c on 10-24-2000 at 01:45 PM]

  13. #13
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    Very agree with the above post.

    But How well if you can rank in top 20 position for a keyword? Just take "Internet marketing" as an example, What do you think? Is it worthwhile to pay big bucks to acheive the positon? or other methods like promoting in relevant messge board, exchanging links are more cost-justified?
    Addto! e-commerce and Internet Marketing Directory
    Collects and refers hundreds of ecommerce, internet marketing, and website development solutions and advice to small business owners.
    You can access various domain registration info. too

  14. #14

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    Good point Addto, and to be frank, pretty much all our new clients now come from referrals from other clients rather than from any search engine positions we have.

    If a client is happy with the service they tell a few people about it. If they're not happy, they tell everyone they meet ;-)

    Cloughie's right too, always ask to speak to two or three current clients to find out their perspective on the company you intend employing.

    You'll probably see lots of example reports but bear in mind the keywords used, I saw one that was showing great results for 'acoustic moveable walls' advertising a #1 out of 89 sites, great achievement.


  15. #15
    SitePoint Columnist DanThies's Avatar
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    There are a couple SEO's that seem to stay permanently glued to top-10 positions under that very competitive keyword. Pam Abraman is in the top ten on just about every search engine for "website promotion." There are a couple others who seem to be able to stay permanently near the top on "search engine positioning." It's a tough racket, but if they can keep themselves up there in a competitive environment like that, they must be very good at it.

    Personally, I don't have the time to deal with that. GoTo, email marketing, and links always deliver more bang for the buck (and time is money, friends). Got to agree with SimonC here, that getting the top position for "acoustic movable walls" or "authentic replica Oakley sunglasses" is hardly difficult. Just putting that in the page title, and somewhere in the first paragraph, ought to be enough to hit #1 on all the search engines.

    We tried to sponsor a contest last summer to see which SEO could get their pages to the top for the phrase "freeze-dried gerbils" - very few were willing to participate, because of the possibility of losing their trade secrets. It's a very competitive field, that's for sure.

    Dan

  16. #16

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    So that's why my Freeze-Dried Gerbil site went from #1 to #58
    Simon Conroy,
    PPC Bid Management and ROI Tracking Solutions
    www.BidBuddy.co.uk www.ROIstats.co.uk


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