SitePoint Sponsor

User Tag List

Page 1 of 4 1234 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 91

Thread: Is music dead?

  1. #1
    runat="server" Golgotha's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    2,085
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Is music dead?

    I have watched the last two episodes of "American Idol" and it has got me thinking that the music industry has gone down the toilet.

    I'm quite certain that when Bob Marley started in the music industry it wasn't because he wanted to go to Hollywood and have as these kids say, "his name in lights." Rather, he had something to say and used music as a means to preach his message.

    I don't know, but I really feel bad for the kids that have to grow up listening to this crap. Perhaps I'm just an old man, who loves Willie Nelson too much and is not in touch with the younger generation.

    So I ask you youngsters, 19 and under, do you really like this type of music? What do you think of your generations music?

  2. #2
    Sports Publisher mjames's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2000
    Location
    Charlotte, NC
    Posts
    5,891
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    It's nowhere near as good as it was in the '70s, for example. I happen to be a fan and listener of classic rock as I feel that was the best time for music. So many classics there.

  3. #3
    @russellg RussellG's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2000
    Location
    Gold Coast, Queensland
    Posts
    449
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    You just have to look a little harder these days and stay away from 99% of mainstream music, because its crap.
    russell.cz.cc - coming soon (I promise!)

  4. #4
    SitePoint Wizard samsm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Atlanta, GA, USA
    Posts
    5,011
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Originally posted by RussellG
    You just have to look a little harder these days and stay away from 99% of mainstream music, because its crap.
    Second.

    Don't bother with music played on commercial radio stations, even most the ones with an "alternative" playlist. College and public stations may have good shows, depends upon your area. TV is even worse. I would say that you should avoid shows such as American Idol, but a better strategy would be to throw your television out the window. If you are on the first or second floor, you may need to finish it off with a sledgehammer or perhaps larger television dropped from a greater distance.
    (careful! some internal components of a television can carry a strong charge even after they are unplugged!)
    Last edited by samsm; Jan 31, 2003 at 21:28.
    Using your unpaid time to add free content to SitePoint Pty Ltd's portfolio?

  5. #5
    Fine Tuned silver trophy KC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Posts
    2,291
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Had to chime in on this one...

    I agree that most of the music played today is crap. Too many entertainers now are relying on technology to enhance their performance. Most is a repetitive beat with no meaning to their rendition. If you were to listen to them live or on MTV unplugged, you question how they broke through the music industry in the first place. I too, have been watching American Idol and have been very impressed with some of the talent. There are some that remind me of the old time artists and I hope they go far in their careers but the majority all have the same monotone we are hearing today. A total waste of talent imo.

  6. #6
    runat="server" Golgotha's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    2,085
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    >>"Too many entertainers now are relying on technology to enhance their performance."

    That's another thing, these people don't play an instrument. I mean stop dancing and pick up a guitar.

    There are some people I like today.
    I like Dave Matthews, Keb' Mo', Lenny Kravitz and think Sarah McLachlan is great.

    But you have to worry about the music that we're losing. I don't even hear people trying to be the next Stevie Ray Vaughan or the next Van Morrison or the next James Taylor...I could go on and on. But, when we lose these artist, who is going to fill the gap, not the people I'm hearing today.

  7. #7
    Fine Tuned silver trophy KC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Posts
    2,291
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    But you have to worry about the music that we're losing. I don't even hear people trying to be the next Stevie Ray Vaughan or the next Van Morrison or the next James Taylor...I could go on and on. But, when we lose these artist, who is going to fill the gap, not the people I'm hearing today.
    I think even the live performers today aren't actually singing, they lipsync.

    example: If you caught Super Bowl halftime, Shania looked like a complete idiot. It was obvious the music was prerecorded. She looked like a wannabe Cher. Even my husband who adores the woman was turned off. Even Faith Hill's last album was recorded using the most advanced technology. She was in a recording studio in Nashville while the orchestra was in another country.

    I remember going to concerts like Aerosmith, Lynard Skynard, Foghat, and the Eagles where you were actually listening to live music with variations of songs not played on their albums. Today I refuse to spend an outrageous price for a concert ticket to watch a band lipsync their way through a concert.

    I have taught my own children to appreciate all types of music and they definately prefer the music of yesterday.

  8. #8
    @russellg RussellG's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2000
    Location
    Gold Coast, Queensland
    Posts
    449
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    But not all new music is like that... dig a little deeper and you will find good stuff.

    And the "olden days" had its fair share of junk as well My mum listens to ABBA for crying out loud.
    russell.cz.cc - coming soon (I promise!)

  9. #9
    Fine Tuned silver trophy KC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Posts
    2,291
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Originally posted by RussellG
    But not all new music is like that... dig a little deeper and you will find good stuff.

    And the "olden days" had its fair share of junk as well My mum listens to ABBA for crying out loud.
    Thats the point...digging a little deeper to find the good stuff. They are out there but not the norm anymore.

    How many musicians today can play an instrument solo (example - 12 string guitar) for 15 minutes without losing a beat and without the aid of technology, live? There are very few today whereas yesterday, there were many.

    Yes there was junk then too but not the majority like it is today. How many rap songs can you honestly pick out that seperate them from the rest of the norm? They all sound the same. Same lyrics, same beat over and over and over and over and...........blah

  10. #10
    runat="server" Golgotha's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    2,085
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    yes, there was junk then too, but it wasn't mass marketed and dressed up to look like something that it wasn't, which is junk.

    you want 12 string guitar, try Leo Kottke, but that doesn't count as todays music

  11. #11
    Fine Tuned silver trophy KC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Posts
    2,291
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Originally posted by Golgotha
    yes, there was junk then too, but it wasn't mass marketed and dressed up to look like something that it wasn't, which is junk.

    you want 12 string guitar, try Leo Kottke, but that doesn't count as todays music
    Wow. Nice

    Soemthing about a 12 string guitar that melts my soul.

  12. #12
    Your sister is hott! Sla's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    The Internet
    Posts
    241
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I have to chime in.


    I don't think you're defining the term music right. You seem to think that pop and 90% of modern rap = music. Try thinking about it this way...

    When you were kids and listening to Neil Young and what not, your parents probably thought, "Oh this stuff is crap. Real music is dead. Why can't they just listen to jazz?" (I'm assuming jazz was "your" parents choice of music).

    My favorite types of music are Death Metal (korn ,slipknot, dark tranqulity), Punk (offspring, green day, pennywise) and Alternative (puddle of mudd, finch, evanescence). Why? The lyrics appeal to me, and it's high energy. What you may call noise, we call music. If you listen past the screaming of metal to the actual lyrics, it makes sense. Take, for example, "Surfacing" by slipknot. You may hear

    SCREAM SCREAM DEATH KILL SHOOT UP YOUR SCHOOL NOISE NOISE DISTORTION KILL KILL KILL DIE DIE DIE DIE DIE DIE!!!
    What do we hear?
    **** it all, **** this world, **** everything that you stand for! Don't belong, don't exist, don't give a ****, don't ever judge me!
    Why are the lyrics so harsh? Because that's the way that people who like that kind of music think. All the lyrics are doing is saying "let me be who I want, and don't judge me for it!"

    Take, for example this essay, by Marilyn Manson, the guilty-unless-proven-innocent catalyst for the Columbine and other school shootings.

    It is sad to think that the first few people on earth needed no books, movies, games or music to inspire cold-blooded murder. The day that Cain bashed his brother Abel's brains in, the only motivation he needed was his own human disposition to violence. Whether you interpret the Bible as literature or as the final word of whatever God may be, Christianity has given us an image of death and sexuality that we have based our culture around. A half-naked dead man hangs in most homes and around our necks, and we have just taken that for granted all our lives. Is it a symbol of hope or hopelessness? The world's most famous murder-suicide was also the birth of the death icon -- the blueprint for celebrity. Unfortunately, for all of their inspiring morality, nowhere in the Gospels is intelligence praised as a virtue.
    Also, on the CD "Ixnay On The Hombre", The Offspring put a clearly stated, easy to understand disclaimer:

    ladies and gentlemen
    welcome to the disclaimer
    that's right the disclaimer

    this american apple pie institution
    known as parental discretion
    will cleanse any sense of innuendo or sarcasm
    from the lyrics that might actually make you think
    and will also insult your intelligence at the same time

    so protect your family
    this album contains explicit depictions
    of things which are real
    these real things are commonly known as life
    so if it sounds sarcastic don't take it seriously
    if it sounds dangerous
    do not try this at home or at all
    and if it offends you just don't listen to it
    I think The Offspring hit it right on with that. Modern music is supposed to be fun! No, music isn't dead. Come to a Jazz Band rehersal at West Warwick High School some Thursday night, and I'll show you 5 kids who can solo
    for 15 minutes without losing a beat and without the aid of technology
    , and have all good musical ideas.

    Music has not died - the torch has merely been passed on to a new generation.

  13. #13
    SitePoint Wizard samsm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Atlanta, GA, USA
    Posts
    5,011
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    In reference to some comments...

    I don't think there is anything wrong with using technology... it is when technology is used in place of musical ideas that things go wrong. I think there is a lot of good use of technology in music out there and you are limiting yourself if you chose not to use it simply out of a prejudice for classic instruments.

    Certainly anything using a drum machine is 10x as likely to be crap, but that isn't a death sentence necessarily.
    Last edited by samsm; Jan 31, 2003 at 22:51.
    Using your unpaid time to add free content to SitePoint Pty Ltd's portfolio?

  14. #14
    SitePoint Zealot Lauren's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    180
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Sla, I listen to similar music. However, I do not feel that the music must have explicit lyrics to make a point. Rather, I think it is a symptom of a lack of genuine creativity. The words are used to create the shock factor instead of what the words are saying. POD's "Youth of the Nation" is a good example. It is a very powerful song, but they do not feel the need to use words to define the song; they use vivid descriptions instead. Good Charlotte's "The Story of My Old Man" is another example. It effects me more to think about the situations described than to listen to somebody curse their father.

    One thing that I don't like is when people complain like spoiled brats. I get that feel from some music when all the group does is curse and talk about how much they hate something. It just doesn't do anything for me. I prefer to listen to music that describes situations, places, or just does anything other than sound like spoiled brats . This doesn't mean that I like watered down stuff. Music can be as strong as it needs to be, and I think it is even stronger, when using this approach. I don't like pop any more than anyone else that has posted here (and maybe less, but that's a story for another topic).

    Samsm hit the point. Technology can be used to enhance talent, but it sounds pathetic when it is used in place of talent. My brother is pretty good at guitar and he wants a fancy amp one day. It is not to make up for any lack of talent, but to give him a different way to express his talent and style. He knows that it won't make him a better player.
    Lauren and Auster



    The dog is a reflection of his master. - Max v. Stephanitz

  15. #15
    SitePoint Wizard samsm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Atlanta, GA, USA
    Posts
    5,011
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I'll elaborate on a few times when it is a very good idea to use technology.

    The example of Faith Hill recording an album with an orchestra in another country fascinates me. Wouldn't it be wonderful to jam with people online? I think we are approaching the point where that is becoming practical. If I spent another $100/month on Internet access I could have 1.5 Mbauds/sec upload which could broadcast a fairly decent sound over the Internet to about 10 people. You could just post your address on a forum: Funk bass player available for jams: 192.168.0.2.... give me a holler if you've got drums, horns or any sort of funky funky flow.

    I've used a couple synthesizer applications that just blow my mind. One was called "Tokyo" and you could (easily!) set a frequency of vibration that would be used as a rhythm to interact with the frequency of the fluctuation of a pitch. You get the idea. It also had a module where you could take a sound clip and explore every aspect of it's wavelength composition. Slowing down one component while increasing another. Wow. With another application called "Reaktor" (made by the germans, of course) you could piece together fluctuations of rhythm and pitch into a customized synthesizer.

    I used to have a simple freeware drum program. You could divide a measure into eighths, sixteenths, thirtyseconds, etc... as well as fiths, sevenths, etc.... crappy midi sound, but you could create incredible rhythms that I would challenge any human drummer to reproduce. Point is, one thing that computers can do well that humans really can't is difficult acts of coordination such as drumming at 360 bpm or pulling out some crazy rhythms (or should I say arrhythmia?).

    Synthesizer quality is still generally crappy when compared to quality brass, string or woodwind performance but it is a good way to sample a score before you hire said musicians to perform your work. Danny Elfman does this.

    Basically, technology in music is a good thing in music for a number of reasons.
    Using your unpaid time to add free content to SitePoint Pty Ltd's portfolio?

  16. #16
    Your sister is hott! Sla's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    The Internet
    Posts
    241
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I myself am similar...I'm an awesome bass player (not trying to be arrogant)and I recently bought a Multi-FX pedal...there's a difference between using a using Technology because your good and the fact that you're good because you use technology.


    Lauren - I see what you're saying, but even my parents realize that sometimes there aren't "polite" words that are strong enough to express how one feels...I personally try not to curse in front of my parents, but when I do, they don't rag on me, because when I use that kind of language, they know it's with just cause.


    But yes, I do like "Youth of the Nation" by POD.

    I think the ones that complain like spoiled brats are the pop stars. But the two "rock" groups that do too much whining and complaining for me are Avril Lavigne and Simple Plan...

  17. #17
    Sidewalking anode's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    Philadelphia, US
    Posts
    2,205
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    If you think shocking lyrics are new you may want to look into the Velvet Underground and MC5.

    Is there a problem in the music industry? Yes. Is it synthesizers or rap? Decidedly no. It's the same problem that has been around forever in popular music: needles in haystacks. I'm sure there are a million bands out there that are amazing and will be regarded as classics 10 years from now that most of us have never heard of, and never will while they're still around. Suicide comes to mind immediately, Chrome , Modern Lovers, I could go on here, but I'm sure you see the point.

  18. #18
    SitePoint Zealot Lauren's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    180
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Sla, I am not saying that music should be without certain words (that's the subject of another post entirely) but when strong words are used so much they loose their meaning they no longer have the same effect. It waters down the very reason that the word is used, and that makes me have even less respect for what the band is saying. What you posted is an excellent example
    **** it all, **** this world, **** everything that you stand for! Don't belong, don't exist, don't give a ****, don't ever judge me!
    This is just a band moaning about life. They offer no real description, no insight, no solution. They just complain. That's what I was talking about. That's the main reason that I don't like that kind of lyrics. They use words instead of descriptions and larger thoughts.

    Samsm, thanks for the synthesizer info. My brother hasn't found a drummer yet and he has been looking for something like this. Playing along with the radio gets boring after a while .
    Lauren and Auster



    The dog is a reflection of his master. - Max v. Stephanitz

  19. #19
    runat="server" Golgotha's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    2,085
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    some good points here, can't say that I'm a fan of most of that type of music, just doesn't do much for me. But, the point is that these musicians have something to say and are simply using music as the medium to say it. That I can respect. But the music doesn't have to be amped up and in your face to deliver a message. Cat Stevens, Marvin Gaye, and even John Lennon spoke up about social issues and delivered the message in a clear manner.

    Think about it this way. If I had a message that I wanted to deliver to you. Would you be more receptive to hearing my message if I yelled my message to you with obscenities or if I clearly stated it to you?

    As far as my stance on technology, nothing beats a smoky jazz room filled with musicians just playing off one another. To me, itís just more human and soulful. Sure the human is going to make more mistakes than the computer would, but after all thatís human.

  20. #20
    Sidewalking anode's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    Philadelphia, US
    Posts
    2,205
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Originally posted by Golgotha
    As far as my stance on technology, nothing beats a smoky jazz room filled with musicians just playing off one another. To me, itís just more human and soulful. Sure the human is going to make more mistakes than the computer would, but after all thatís human.
    I'm assuming you aren't aware of electronic improv or noise/industrial? A guitar is a thing that makes certain frequencies. A synthesiser is a thing that makes certain frequencies. A synthesiser is capable of making the same exact frequencies as a guitar(look into additive synthesis.) It's not the tool, it's how you use it.

  21. #21
    ☆★☆★ silver trophy vgarcia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    in transition
    Posts
    21,235
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Using technology in music is not bad (look at some good electronica next time you're at Best Buy). Using technology in place of talent and good lyrics/story is bad. This goes for movies as well as music. Example, the latest Star Wars movie. Great special effects, but to a lot of people that's all it was, and they'd rather go back to the days of Empire Strikes Back, where the stories were better but the budget called for something a bit more low-tech. Who cares about a 100 million dollar budget when your movie/album is dressed-up crap?

  22. #22
    Fine Tuned silver trophy KC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Posts
    2,291
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Great posts added. What bothers me too is when its forced on you. Yeah we can turn the radio off to that which isn't appealing, but hard to turn your ears off when the guy next to you at a red light has some annoying song pounding on his over-amplified bass. I physically can't tolerate it. I get migraines from it and makes me very nervous. I've jumped curbs before just to get away from it. This is not music. This is repetitive - in your face - annoyance.

    Music is supposed to be an aesthetically pleasing or harmonious sound or combination of sounds. The majority of music today imo has lost emphasis on harmonious sound or being aesthetically pleasing.

    If a musician is screaming death, kill, die, devil, etc., I would not want to listen to it. Thats not what music is about imo. If this is where our future is going with music, then I feel sorry for the future generations because they will be missing the beauty of what music really is.

    I'm sure they have been studies done on the affects of music. I would be curious to see how different types of music affect people.
    Former Design Your Site Team Leader

  23. #23
    Sidewalking anode's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    Philadelphia, US
    Posts
    2,205
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Originally posted by URAlly
    Music is supposed to be an aesthetically pleasing or harmonious sound or combination of sounds. The majority of music today imo has lost emphasis on harmonious sound or being aesthetically pleasing.

    If a musician is screaming death, kill, die, devil, etc., I would not want to listen to it. Thats not what music is about imo. If this is where our future is going with music, then I feel sorry for the future generations because they will be missing the beauty of what music really is.
    Aesthetically pleasing is different things to different people. I agree with you as per this specific example, but music born of anger and frustrationn shouldn't be discounted on that fact.
    I'm sure they have been studies done on the affects of music. I would be curious to see how different types of music affect people.
    The only ones I know of are the research done by the Muzak Corporation people(music as a subliminal persuasion mechanism) and the work by Brian Eno, Throbbing Gristle and many others on reversing (or deprogramming) the Muzak effects.

  24. #24
    Your sister is hott! Sla's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    The Internet
    Posts
    241
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Originally posted by Golgotha
    nothing beats a smoky jazz room filled with musicians just playing off one another. To me, itís just more human and soulful. Sure the human is going to make more mistakes than the computer would, but after all thatís human.

    Gotta agree. I haven't had the smoky room, since it was a school fundraiser, but it was 4 of us just playing off each other on charts such as "Red Clay" and "Freddie The Freeloader"

  25. #25
    @russellg RussellG's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2000
    Location
    Gold Coast, Queensland
    Posts
    449
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Originally posted by URAlly
    but hard to turn your ears off when the guy next to you at a red light has some annoying song pounding on his over-amplified bass. I physically can't tolerate it. I get migraines from it and makes me very nervous. I've jumped curbs before just to get away from it. This is not music. This is repetitive - in your face - annoyance.
    That happened to my friend and I once. We were at the lights listening to some Hard NRG and the guy next to us put his window up!

    I'm sorry, but NOBODY has the right to say "This is music" and "This is not music". In fact we even had a thread about it: http://www.sitepointforums.com/showt...c&pagenumber=1

    I'm not having a go at you or anything Just debating.
    russell.cz.cc - coming soon (I promise!)


Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •