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  1. #1
    SitePoint Wizard DoubleDee's Avatar
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    Displaying "Last 10 Visitors"

    On my website, when you view a Member's Profile, in the left margin I have a section that lists the "Last 10 Visitors" to that Profile.

    I am debating how to lay things out and specifically what data to present.

    Here are some potential options...

    Option #1: List each Visit/Visitor in descending order, including Anonymous visitors (denoted by "Non-Member").
    Code:
    The last 10 Visitors on this page were...
    
        Linda-was-here
        Linda-was-here
        Non-Member
        Non-Member
        Non-Member
        Non-Member
        Linda-was-here
        username4
        JaneDoe

    Option #2: List each Visit/Visitor in descending order, excluding Anonymous visitors.
    Code:
    The last 10 Visitors on this page were...
    
        Linda-was-here
        Linda-was-here
        Linda-was-here
        username4
        JaneDoe

    Option #3: Aggregate Visitors, and list in descending order of a given Visitors *latest* Visit, including Anonymous visitors.
    Code:
    The last 10 Visitors on this page were...
    
        Linda-was-here (3)
        Non-Member (4)
        username4 (1)
        JaneDoe (1)

    Option #4: Aggregate Visitors, and list in descending order of a given Visitors *latest* Visit, excluding Anonymous visitors.
    Code:
    The last 10 Visitors on this page were...
    
        Linda-was-here (3)
        username4 (1)
        JaneDoe (1)

    Option #5: Aggregate Visitors, and list in descending order of a given Visitors *latest* Visit, excluding Anonymous visitors and without COUNTS.
    Code:
    The last 10 Visitors on this page were...
    
        Linda-was-here
        username4
        JaneDoe
    Thanks,



    Debbie

  2. #2
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    ralph.m's Avatar
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    I prefer this:

    Option #6: Let people view web pages without publishing their activity to others.
    Code:
    This page has had 20 Visitors
    Personally, I don't like the way this forum tells people what I've been looking at.

  3. #3
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    I would suggest changing the heading.If you aggregate then you aren't listing "visitors" so much as visits. I mean that could be useful if you want to know who is cyber stalking you, but from the heading I would expect to see 10 NAMES. Yest it might look a bit cooky if you get 10 non-members ( as it would be the only case in which you couldn't tell individuals vs repeat visits.. but all of the above mention options share this caveat anyway).

  4. #4
    SitePoint Wizard DoubleDee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ralph.m View Post
    I prefer this:

    Option #6: Let people view web pages without publishing their activity to others.
    Code:
    This page has had 20 Visitors
    Personally, I don't like the way this forum tells people what I've been looking at.
    Okay, Ralph, but some *context* here...

    This is for a Member's Profile - not for every page on my website.

    Don't you think it is useful for a Member to see who has been viewing their Profile? (And don't you think that if YOU visited someone's Profile, it is sorta implied that they might/oughta know?)

    That doesn't seem overly intrusive to me, although for v3.0 maybe I can add the ability to "Surf Anonymously" as a preference?!

    Sincerely,


    Debbie

  5. #5
    SitePoint Evangelist Tapan's Avatar
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    Option 5 is the correct way to go in my opinion.

  6. #6
    SitePoint Wizard DoubleDee's Avatar
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    Off day, huh?


    Quote Originally Posted by dresden_phoenix View Post
    I would suggest changing the heading.If you aggregate then you aren't listing "visitors" so much as visits.
    If Mary visits my Profile 20 times, and I just list "Mary" once, then I most certainly am aggregating by Username!!!


    I mean that could be useful if you want to know who is cyber stalking you, but from the heading I would expect to see 10 NAMES.
    If there were LESS THAN 10 Visitors or Visits to my Profile, then might see the examples I provided above...


    Yest it might look a bit cooky if you get 10 non-members ( as it would be the only case in which you couldn't tell individuals vs repeat visits.. but all of the above mention options share this caveat anyway).
    So for that scenario - as mentioned above - I could...

    a.) Eliminate "Anonymous" Visitors from the listing

    b.) Aggregate "Anonymous" Visitors into ONE entry

    c.) Leave each "Anonymous" Visitor as a SEPARATE entry so the Member can get a visual sense of the Member/Anonymous Visitor ratio


    But all of this doesn't really answer my original question(s)...


    Debbie

  7. #7
    SitePoint Wizard DoubleDee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tapan View Post
    Option 5 is the correct way to go in my opinion.
    Okay, thanks for the feedback!!

    So why do you feel Option #5 is the (best) way to go?


    Debbie

  8. #8
    SitePoint Evangelist Tapan's Avatar
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    Hi,

    Option 1: Just displays duplicate records. It will just fill up the space and look un-professional.
    Option 2: Same as first, does'nt matters whether anonymous users are included or excluded, repeating names will not look good.
    Option 3: The number in the brackets is just confusing. The number does'nt tells anything.
    Option 4: Again same as Option 2, does'nt matters whether you include the anonymous users or not.
    Option 5: This is best, no confusions and tells me exactly what it has to say.

    Also I don't think you need to include anonymous users in the list.
    You can also do it like phpbb used to do:

    Last 10 users:
    Linda-was-here, username4, JaneDoe and 20 anonymous users.


    Thanks.

  9. #9
    SitePoint Wizard DoubleDee's Avatar
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    Thanks for the response Tapan. Lots of good thoughts!

    Quote Originally Posted by Tapan View Post
    Hi,

    Option 1: Just displays duplicate records. It will just fill up the space and look un-professional.
    Option 2: Same as first, does'nt matters whether anonymous users are included or excluded, repeating names will not look good.
    Okay, I can see your point, but what about the fact that these appear as a "Guest Registry"?

    Personally, I sorta like seeing a chronological "Log" of who is visiting my Profile... (I can see where this would be problematic including "Anonymous" Visitors, tough!)


    Option 3: The number in the brackets is just confusing. The number does'nt tells anything.
    Option 4: Again same as Option 2, does'nt matters whether you include the anonymous users or not.
    I'm bummed by your response on this one. (I spent a lot of time on that query, and was pretty proud of myself?!) To me, even though it isn't spelled out, it seems pretty intuitive to me what DoubleDee (7) would mean under the heading Last 10 Visitors...


    Option 5: This is best, no confusions and tells me exactly what it has to say.
    Yes, as a plain vanilla option, I agree.


    Also I don't think you need to include anonymous users in the list.
    Tell me more why you say this...


    You can also do it like phpbb used to do:

    Last 10 users:
    Linda-was-here, username4, JaneDoe and 20 anonymous users.
    That might work...

    Thanks again for your thoughts!!


    Debbie

  10. #10
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    ralph.m's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleDee View Post
    Don't you think it is useful for a Member to see who has been viewing their Profile? (And don't you think that if YOU visited someone's Profile, it is sorta implied that they might/oughta know?)
    It's fair enough to want to know how many people have visited your profile, I guess (though I'm not sure why anyone would want to know). Likewise, it's handy to know how many people have visited your site, but I don't like the idea of telling site owners who has been visiting your site. To me, that's like Google giving your name, email address, street number, phone number etc. to any website you visit. I'd rather to be able to look around anonymously.

  11. #11
    SitePoint Wizard DoubleDee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ralph.m View Post
    It's fair enough to want to know how many people have visited your profile, I guess (though I'm not sure why anyone would want to know).
    In real life, if strangers walk by and look at you, what do you normally do?

    Are you a jerk - like people in certain parts of the U.S. - and snarl when someone looks your way? Or do you do like most "normal" people across the world do, and maybe acknowledge their look, or even nod or say "Hello!"?

    I check to see who has looked at my Profile here at SitePoint. And sometimes I even will send a PM and say "Hello". (Of course, I am naturally curious and friendly...)


    Likewise, it's handy to know how many people have visited your site, but I don't like the idea of telling site owners who has been visiting your site.
    If you visit "My House", I can track anything I like! (And I am adding this Feature to promote a sense of "community" and promote Social Interaction ---> not to create "Big Brother" spying?!


    To me, that's like Google giving your name, email address, street number, phone number etc. to any website you visit. I'd rather to be able to look around anonymously.
    If YOU register on MY website, and YOU give me your E-mail, Username, and Password, and then I share your Username with others when you visit their Profiles, how is that anywhere close to giving out your Name, Email, Street Number, Phone Number, etc?!

    In that scenario, YOU gave me your Username.

    Yes, I am sharing that you visited someone else's Profile, but that isn't exactly "Top Secret" info...

    And if you are that concerned with being anonymous, then why bother to create a User Account and Log In in the first place??

    (I respect your desire for privacy, but I am hardly broadcasting all of your deep, personal secrets for all to see?! I'm just saying "Ralph visited your Profile." And after 10 new people do the same, you will no longer appear anyways!)


    Debbie

    P.S. You may not be aware of this Ralph, I can currently see that YOU (i.e. "ralph.m" ) responded to my thread...

  12. #12
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    ralph.m's Avatar
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    Jeesh, the prospect of being contacted each time I peek at a profile page fills me with horror. It's like those companies that won't give you any info without you giving them your contact details. No thanks.

  13. #13
    SitePoint Wizard DoubleDee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ralph.m View Post
    Jeesh, the prospect of being contacted each time I peek at a profile page fills me with horror.
    I'm not contacting anyone, Ralph. I am just displaying in the profile being viewed who the Last 10 Visitors were. If people don't want to have their Username associated with viewing people's Profiles, then I guess they shouldn't log in?!


    It's like those companies that won't give you any info without you giving them your contact details. No thanks.
    You are certainly entitled to feel that way, but remember that your employer does the same thing with logging Visitors in other people's Profiles as I am proposing here...


    Debbie

  14. #14
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    ralph.m's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleDee View Post
    If people don't want to have their Username associated with viewing people's Profiles, then I guess they shouldn't log in?!
    But presumably they can't view profiles without being logged in. When people sign up to something online, there is a certain amount of trust involved. This is a minor issue, but still, I think it's an unnecessary breach of trust to publish to others what you've been looking at. (If I sign in to Google before searching online, does that mean I want Google to publish to all other logged in users around the world what I've been looking at? Hell no ... ) I don't see the value in it. If you want to create a community, then why not allow users to write messages to each other, like a wall? And give members the choice whether they allow that or not.

    remember that your employer does the same thing with logging Visitors in other people's Profiles as I am proposing here...
    Do you mean SP? I'm not an employee, and I noted above that I don't like that feature of the forums. Don't you read my posts?

  15. #15
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    If Mary visits my Profile 20 times, and I just list "Mary" once, then I most certainly am aggregating by Username!!!
    I meant that Mary is only one(1) VISITOR, evenif she logged 20 VISTS. So if I were to read a button that said "Last 10 VISITORS" I would expect to see the names of the 10 individuals ( if I were that popular ) who may have visited my profile.

    If there were LESS THAN 10 Visitors or Visits to my Profile, then might see the examples I provided above...
    In another words, don't let Mary hog the spotlight for cyber stalking my profile 10 times in a row, if there were 9 other people who at least took a peek. It may be just as (or more) important to the me to know of those others as it is to know that Mary "seems oddly interested, but too chicken to do anything about it", lol.


    In real life, if strangers walk by and look at you, what do you normally do? Are you a jerk - like people in certain parts of the U.S. - and snarl when someone looks your way?
    LOL... Someone doesn't like Yankees.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleDee View Post
    if strangers walk by and look at you, ... do you .... snarl...?
    No, I smile and move on. But I don't expect the store owner to give them my name and address, just because I came in to have a look around.

  17. #17
    SitePoint Evangelist Tapan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleDee View Post
    Thanks for the response Tapan. Lots of good thoughts!

    Okay, I can see your point, but what about the fact that these appear as a "Guest Registry"?

    Personally, I sorta like seeing a chronological "Log" of who is visiting my Profile... (I can see where this would be problematic including "Anonymous" Visitors, tough!)


    I'm bummed by your response on this one. (I spent a lot of time on that query, and was pretty proud of myself?!) To me, even though it isn't spelled out, it seems pretty intuitive to me what DoubleDee (7) would mean under the heading Last 10 Visitors...


    Yes, as a plain vanilla option, I agree.

    Tell me more why you say this...


    That might work...

    Thanks again for your thoughts!!


    Debbie
    Hi,

    - If i refresh the profile page 10 times then it means only my name will show in the last 10 users ? You don't want that do you ?

    - Also (7) doesn't makes sense because I don't know what it is representing ? Is it age ? Is it Message count ? Its just confusing IMO. Incase it does then it tells me exactly who is viewing who's profile how many times which is also wrong IMO. It may create negative curiosity. There should be a limit in terms of security and privacy. If you show the number then it would like: "Oh Linda-was-here viewed my profile like 100 times, hmm she must be liking me." So you see it changes my perspective about her. You don't want that ?

    - I don't like to include anonymous users because i don't know how you're making sure whether they are actual users or not ? They can either be search engine bots or some other crawlers, how will you know they are legit people ?

    I think phpbb way is also a nice way to go.

    Thanks.

  18. #18
    SitePoint Wizard DoubleDee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ralph.m View Post
    But presumably they can't view profiles without being logged in.
    Wrong.

    Anyone, whether a logged in Member, or a logged out Member, or an Anonymous Visitor can view a Member's Profile... Don't like that, Ralph?! Then you can create an Account, but with NO Profile!


    When people sign up to something online, there is a certain amount of trust involved. This is a minor issue, but still, I think it's an unnecessary breach of trust to publish to others what you've been looking at. (If I sign in to Google before searching online, does that mean I want Google to publish to all other logged in users around the world what I've been looking at? Hell no ... )
    That's why I keep telling you to quit that nasty porn habit of yours, Ralph!!


    I don't see the value in it. If you want to create a community, then why not allow users to write messages to each other, like a wall?
    I think that is what FaceBook does, right? (Although I am in no way interested of mimicking FaceBook?!)


    And give members the choice whether they allow that or not.
    I might build in more "privacy" options in my next release.


    Do you mean SP? I'm not an employee,
    I thought you had been hired at SitePoint?


    and I noted above that I don't like that feature of the forums. Don't you read my posts?
    Yes, I did read your post, and my point was that you still use SitePoint regardless.

    BTW, why the whole "privacy" hang-up?

    I think you pour tons of yourself and your bio info already into SitePoint, so what is so invasive about showing another Member when you - as a logged in Member - visit THEIR Profile?


    Again, my main purpose is to promote others talking and getting to know each other. But if you want to play the "privacy" card, then I would counter your argument and say, "I think that 'I' have a right as a Member of my website to know WHO is visiting my Profile!!"

    Sincerely,


    Debbie

  19. #19
    SitePoint Wizard DoubleDee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dresden_phoenix View Post
    I meant that Mary is only one(1) VISITOR, evenif she logged 20 VISTS. So if I were to read a button that said "Last 10 VISITORS" I would expect to see the names of the 10 individuals ( if I were that popular ) who may have visited my profile.
    Okay, I get your point. And, yes, that makes more sense!


    In another words, don't let Mary hog the spotlight for cyber stalking my profile 10 times in a row, if there were 9 other people who at least took a peek. It may be just as (or more) important to the me to know of those others as it is to know that Mary "seems oddly interested, but too chicken to do anything about it", lol.
    Another valid point.

    So what about my idea of putting a count in parentheses next to a username so you get the best of both worlds?

    Code:
    DoubleDee (8)
    dresden_phoenix (1)
    MaryMary (1)
    JohnDoe (2)
    ralph.m (1)
    TheShadow (1)

    Or possibly a cleaner format...
    Code:
    DoubleDee (8)
    dresden_phoenix
    MaryMary
    JohnDoe (2)
    ralph.m
    TheShadow

    LOL... Someone doesn't like Yankees.
    No, I have no issues with "Yankees", but I do have an issue with how people act and treat others in a handful of states in the Northeast... (Recall some heated debates in the early days between DeathShadow and myself over *manners*...)

    I'm more of a "Peace, Love, and Good Web Design" kinda gal, myself!!

    But let's leave that debate in the past...

    Sincerely,


    Debbie

  20. #20
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    Am always for the best of both worlds. and leaning slightly toward the second idea.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleDee View Post
    I thought you had been hired at SitePoint?
    No, we are all volunteers here, except HAWK.

    BTW, why the whole "privacy" hang-up?
    And when are you going to give us a link to this site of your?

    The difference with the info I show about myself here is that I choose to do that, whereas you are not giving users a choice about whether or not their viewing patterns are publicized or not. Maybe give users a choice about that.

  22. #22
    SitePoint Wizard DoubleDee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ralph.m View Post
    No, we are all volunteers here, except HAWK.
    Oh, okay.


    And when are you going to give us a link to this site of your?
    *ETERNALLY* in development?!


    The difference with the info I show about myself here is that I choose to do that, whereas you are not giving users a choice about whether or not their viewing patterns are publicized or not. Maybe give users a choice about that.
    Might be a nice addition to v3.0

    For now, if people have hang ups about privacy, then they shouldn't build a Profile - which is optional.


    Debbie

  23. #23
    SitePoint Wizard DoubleDee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tapan View Post
    Hi,

    - If i refresh the profile page 10 times then it means only my name will show in the last 10 users ? You don't want that do you ?
    Good point.


    - Also (7) doesn't makes sense because I don't know what it is representing ? Is it age ? Is it Message count ? Its just confusing IMO.
    Okay, I can see that. But then again, what about when you see that type of formatting with e-mail? Don't you figure it out fairly quickly?

    If you saw this, what would you guess it means...
    Code:
    Inbox (21)
    Draft (1)
    Sent (35)
    Trash (150)
    I think it is a similar "metaphor"...


    Incase it does then it tells me exactly who is viewing who's profile how many times which is also wrong IMO. It may create negative curiosity. There should be a limit in terms of security and privacy. If you show the number then it would like: "Oh Linda-was-here viewed my profile like 100 times, hmm she must be liking me." So you see it changes my perspective about her. You don't want that ?
    Valid point.


    - I don't like to include anonymous users because i don't know how you're making sure whether they are actual users or not ? They can either be search engine bots or some other crawlers, how will you know they are legit people ?
    Good point.

    I guess I could write some fancy code to sort all of that out, but at this point, I'm not that motivated.


    I think phpbb way is also a nice way to go.

    Thanks.
    Yes, I liked that earlier suggestion.

    To do that, I guess I would need to build 2 queries - one for Members and one for Anonymous Visitors - and then display the two results-sets together.


    Debbie

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleDee View Post
    if people have hang ups about privacy, then they shouldn't build a Profile - which is optional.
    Ah, fair enough. Then they do have options.

  25. #25
    SitePoint Wizard DoubleDee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ralph.m View Post
    Ah, fair enough. Then they do have options.
    I'd like to think so.

    (I'm trying to built a "Ralph-friendly" and "Ralph-approved" website!!)

    And I'll kick around your concerns about tracking and privacy, and maybe in v3.0 - I'm working on v2.0 now - adding a Preferences Section where people can adjust their privacy and security settings.

    Thanks!!


    Debbie


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