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  1. #76
    SitePoint Zealot HotDog's Avatar
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    Originally posted by LuZeR
    Originally posted by HotDog
    Originally posted by LuZeR
    One more thing: if I had been aborted I WOULD NOT KNOW THE DIFFERENCE! and neither would anybody else.
    That is the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Please!!! Like you really don't care you weren't killed off by your mother. Give me a freaking break!!!
    Whoa hot dog. Calm down boy. I'm not dumb and I'd appreciate not being called dumb since it's not me that is misunderstanding. If I had been aborted I'd be dead and wouldn't know any better. Get the point? Has an aborted fetus ever told you they wish they hadn't been aborted?

    I'm not going to respond to this thread any more since it's obviously just turning into name calling.

    Good day.
    I don't remember calling you dumb or calling you any names. What you said was dumb though. I get your point. But it's a dumb point. And again I state, you cannot tell me you don't appreciate the fact that you areNOWalive and well. Your comment is a non factor. You are alive NOW, and enjoying it I can assume.

    And no, an aborted fetus has never told me that he or she wishes they hadn't been aborted. They never have had the chance. But I'm betting that a few of them thought it was a raw deal.

    If you are going to make those kind of comments, then be man enough to take the criticism that comes from it.

    You have made some good points on your stand point though. That one was just....dumb.
    Joe Eliason
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  2. #77
    SitePoint Wizard TWTCommish's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Elledan
    Is it a bad thing to try to look in the future, try to predict how the Human population will grow and based on that take action?

    Is it evil to keep the Human population healthy and prospering?

    A sidenote:

    If we don't do anything, the human population will get too big for this planet and billions of people will die of starvation until the size of the Human population will be within acceptable numbers.
    So "taking action" is defined as a lot of abortions? If you believe in technology so much, you ought to have faith in our ability to work around the problem...perhaps by inhabiting another planet. We have a lot of room on the Earth, and much of it is uninhabited.

    Being with morals does not make me a fool. There is something to be said for rights...and limiting children is not acceptable. The fact that no one here disagrees with that except for you should force any person with a lick of common sense to seriously re-evaluate they're thinking.

    As for Martin: you absolutely did not pinpoint it...you said when the head has "come out" basically...are you telling me a half a second earlier it did NOT deserve the rights of a child, but a half a second later, it DID? Was the baby of half a second ago really any different than the one you would see just a mili-second later?

    Saying "when the head comes out" is far from pinpointing. Again: conception is pinpointed and makes sense. With "when its head is shown" or "when it's been given birth to" produces many grey areas and cannot be pinpointed.

    No one called you a name, by the way: they said your statement was dumb.

  3. #78
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    I am not pro abortion or against abortion or anything, but...

    Why is it a big deal to kill a baby but its no big deal to kill say a deer. Sure, deer is food and valuable, but they are both living things. Both of them have feelings. Both of them want to live. Same goes for all other animals. Even bacteria!

    I think that Earth is overpopulated, and it might be best to not be born if you were going to live a horrible life. I've heard the phrase "I wish I was never born" more than I like...

    I'll say again that I don't have a side (pro/anti abortion) but I am stating what I think. I haven't done any research, so I don't think I am the person to ask if abortion is right or not. I just posted what I feel is logical. Sorry if I offended anyone...

  4. #79
    SitePoint Wizard TWTCommish's Avatar
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    Originally posted by abahta
    Why is it a big deal to kill a baby but its no big deal to kill say a deer. Sure, deer is food and valuable, but they are both living things. Both of them have feelings. Both of them want to live. Same goes for all other animals. Even bacteria!

    I think that Earth is overpopulated, and it might be best to not be born if you were going to live a horrible life. I've heard the phrase "I wish I was never born" more than I like...
    A deer does not have feelings anywhere near as serious or complex as a human. A dear cannot "reason"...it is the ability to reason and improve upon ourselves and our technology that help set us apart from the animals.

    As for "I Wish I was never born"...If you think about it, I think you'll realize that most people who say that are not serious...even so, that doesn't give anyone the right to assume that their child will hate his or her life when they get older...

  5. #80
    SitePoint Wizard
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    A deer can reason.

    Oh - I think it is stupid that a parent would consider killing an unborn baby just for the inconvienience (sp).

  6. #81
    SitePoint Wizard TWTCommish's Avatar
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    I think you spelled it right...

    A deer has instinct, and things like that. It does not TRULY reason or better itself.

    Example: a monkey has baby monkeys...it feeds them, they eat, play, whatever...when the babies grow up, they do the same thing...goes on forever.

    With humans, we invent things and change our philosophies and what we believe...we don't eat, mate, and sleep with no end in sight...we make changes and think.

  7. #82
    SitePoint Wizard
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    Just because not all animals evolve like humans doesn't mean they have different feelings for life... A deer still wants to live and a baby still wants to live.

  8. #83
    SitePoint Wizard TWTCommish's Avatar
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    Not neccessarily...a baby will think for itself early on...more goes on inside their head than you realize. They will grow to WANT to be alive...a deer will NEVER be capable of telling you it wants to live or have rights, or anything like that.

    Yes, it is living, and yes, it has some mild emotion (most of it, I think, is instinct)...but a deer today behaves basically the same way a deer hundreds of years ago did...I think that's a very big difference...enough so to make it so that killing a deer is okay, but a baby is not.

    In addition: it's really comparing apples to oranges anyway...deer are killed for sport, but also for good quite often. My grandfather was (still is, sort of) a big deer-hunter...with a ton of his friends as well - they all made use of the deer they killed...it was not wasted.

    With an abortion, it's different obviously.

  9. #84
    Sports Publisher mjames's Avatar
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    Originally posted by TWTCommish
    A deer does not have feelings anywhere near as serious or complex as a human. A dear cannot "reason"...it is the ability to reason and improve upon ourselves and our technology that help set us apart from the animals.
    I think you're forgetting that this is a baby we are talking about... not a fully-developed human. A baby can't reason, let alone talk, walk, or even sit up.


  10. #85
    SitePoint Addict Chris Roane's Avatar
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    Hi,

    All I have to say is if I make someone pregnant on accident (which I hope won't happen), I will not kill it, no matter what stage it is at in development. I will take responsibility for my mistake and I will go through with it all the way. (meaning that I will raise it and love it the best that I can)

    Chris Roane

  11. #86
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    I've deliberatly stayed out of this post... (though I'm pro-choice)... but this post reminded me of a passage from 'The Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy' by Douglas Adams.

    A dear cannot "reason"...it is the ability to reason and improve upon ourselves and our technology that help set us apart from the animals.
    Douglas Adams wrote...

    It is an important and popular fact that things are not always what they seem. For instance, on the planet Earth, man had always assumed that he was more intelligent than dolphins because he had achieved so much - the wheel, New York, wars and so on - whilst all the dolphins had ever done was muck about in the water having a good time. But conversely, the dolphins had always believed that they were far more intelligent than man - for precisely the same reasons.
    Peter

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  12. #87
    SitePoint Wizard TWTCommish's Avatar
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    I don't get it...he's saying that man will destroy itself and Dolphins as such are smarter? I doubt it. Dolphins are no doubt intelligent...but they do not do what we do...and I find it hard to believe it's simply because they don't CHOOSE to.

    Interesting quote nontheless.

  13. #88
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    I'm guessing you haven't read The Hitchhikers Guide Chris?

    It's, um what is it, a humour book. It is a trilogy in five parts, (yeah, I know)! "The Hitchhikers Guide To The Galaxy", "Life, the Universe and Everything", "The Restaurant at the End of the Universe", "So Long, and Thanks for all the Fish" and "Mostly Harmless".

    They are quite simply the cleverest and funniest books ever written. Terry Pratchett is basically a rip off of them.

    If you read these books Chris I'll send you a prezzy, coz they are that good!

    Peter
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  14. #89
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    It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems just with potatoes.
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    www.Gods101.co.uk - Affordable Quality.
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  15. #90
    SitePoint Wizard TWTCommish's Avatar
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    Well, you can make an electric light!

  16. #91
    Sports Publisher mjames's Avatar
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    Overall, I think that choice is the biggest thing I'm for. Let the mother/couple decide what they want to do. Everyone has a different situation and they should have the chance to do what they think is best for them, whether it be go ahead and have the baby, or abort it.

  17. #92
    SitePoint Addict superbird's Avatar
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    My opinion is that opinions from men on this matter deserve very little respect. You don't have to face the consequences do you? How dare you dictate to me what I do with my body? How dare you tell me that because *YOU* happen to think that life begins at conception, *I* have to act accordingly?

    There are some aspects of life that will always be a matter of personal morality. Eating meat, having sex before marriage, etc. No one has the right to make someone else stray from their values on these issues. I'm not saying your wife or girlfriend has to have an abortion if you make a mistake and neither is any other pro-choicer so it would be wrong for you to deny us the option when it works the other way.

    Oh yes, and adoption is great for white babies. In most western countries it is far far harder to get babies of other races adopted. If your opinion is that being in a Local Authority home is better than never existing in the first place you are entitled to it and I can completely understand it but I get the impression that a lot of people (not just in this thread, I mean usually when this issue comes up on the net) feel adoption is a panacea when it isn't.

    Another point: I was always bought up to believe that if you feel strongly about something you should do something about it. Can any of the anti-choicers tell me what they are doing about helping women feel better able to bring their foetuses to term?

    And finally, some popular methods of contraception work by preventing a fertilized embryo from implanting in the lining of the womb, do you have the same opinion of these as you do of surgical abortion? IUDs and the ECP (morning after pill) work in this way.
    ...KartLink...

  18. #93
    SitePoint Wizard TWTCommish's Avatar
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    Originally posted by superbird

    My opinion is that opinions from men on this matter deserve very little respect. You don't have to face the consequences do you? How dare you dictate to me what I do with my body? How dare you tell me that because *YOU* happen to think that life begins at conception, *I* have to act accordingly?
    The man is half the equation...while it may be the woman who endures the birth procedure, it is out of line to think that it gives the woman the ONLY say in the matter. It's the man's child as well. I don't know where the line is drawn from a non-Christian perspective.

    By the way: it's not your body...it's your body with someone else's body inside of you...someone else's body that a man helped create.

    Originally posted by superbird

    Another point: I was always bought up to believe that if you feel strongly about something you should do something about it. Can any of the anti-choicers tell me what they are doing about helping women feel better able to bring their foetuses to term?

    And finally, some popular methods of contraception work by preventing a fertilized embryo from implanting in the lining of the womb, do you have the same opinion of these as you do of surgical abortion? IUDs and the ECP (morning after pill) work in this way.
    What do you mean feel better? A woman with a baby and/or pregnancy is usually given special treatment and help, and is often congratulated and praised...

    And yes: anything that gets rid of a fertizilied egg is wrong - I do not, however, have a problem with a conraceptive that prevents conception.

  19. #94
    SitePoint Addict jamesglewisf's Avatar
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    As long as you're quoting guides to the galaxy, my guide to the galaxy says I can eat animals all I want. In fact, God gave them to me for this reason.

    Genesis 9:3
    "Every moving thing that is alive shall be food for you; I give all to you, as I gave the green plant.

    It also says that you're not supposed to withhold food from them when they are working for you.

    Deuteronomy 25:4
    "You shall not muzzle the ox while he is threshing.

    You're also not supposed to be cruel to them.

    Proverbs 12:10
    A righteous man has regard for the life of his beast, but the compassion of the wicked is cruel.
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  20. #95
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    OR..

    If god hadn't wanted us to eat to eat animals he wouldn't have made them out of meat.
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  21. #96
    SitePoint Wizard TWTCommish's Avatar
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    LOL...I've heard that one before.

    Hehe.

  22. #97
    Sports Publisher mjames's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Peter Hibbit
    OR..

    If god hadn't wanted us to eat to eat animals he wouldn't have made them out of meat.
    Try telling that to a vegetarion.

  23. #98
    SitePoint Addict jamesglewisf's Avatar
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    I am a member of PETA, however. People Eating Tasty Animals.
    Jim Lewis
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