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  1. #26
    SitePoint Wizard TWTCommish's Avatar
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    Of course - most people are responsible...but let's face it: the more the age is lowered, the more problems there will be. We won't have fires in the streets, but even a few car crashes make it a bad idea.

  2. #27
    @russellg RussellG's Avatar
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    I don't think the law really stops youths from drinking (I drink with friends at parties and sometimes with my parents).

    It all depends really, theres a time and a place for everything.
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  3. #28
    Fluffy Kitten Programmer~ Elledan's Avatar
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    You could make people stop liking alcohol, nicotine and drugs by 'adjusting' their genes. This will probably have to be done before a child is born.

    I know, it sounds extremely rude, but it's the only long lasting solution. Setting agelimits simply won't do.

    99,9% of the people on earth just won't listen to reason. If you tell someone that alcohol, nicotine and drugs are bad for your body, they'll simply ignore you. They've heard it so many times, but they just continue.

    Big problem is of course that all of those substances are addicting. Cocaine has some interesting effects on the brains: http://165.112.78.61/NIDA_Notes/NNVol13N2/Brain.html

    By 'adjusting' those receptors, nobody could get addicted to cocaine nor nicotine nor alcohol.
    www.nyanko.ws - My web-, software- and game development company.
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  4. #29
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    Elledan, you can not be serious when you are saying that?
    Are you?
    That's really scary! and i'm pretty sure that if that was done, it will have some abuse about it. I truly do not think that's the right solution, and even if it's supposed to be for the best, it's really against what i consider our freedom.

  5. #30
    SitePoint Wizard TWTCommish's Avatar
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    Interesting... But not something I support.

    Here's something else interesting: there is actually a "tipping point" where a person becomes addicted to nicotine - it's basically an ACTUAL daily amount...almost totally narrowed down. Believe it or not, people who smoke a pack or two a day are NOT seriously addicted...they smoke casually and if they wanted to make a real effort to stop: 99% of the time they could. It's people who smoke 3-4-5 a day that would have trouble.

    Amazingly, the people who smoke that often are pre-determined to have an addiction towards nicotine. Obviously all smokers took their first puff at some point - it's how they reacted to it initially that was a forecaster of things to come. I think my mother once took one breath in while she was 13 or so...she hated it, and never tried it again. If she were pre-disposed to addiction, she probably would have reacted differently.

    Something else interesting: a scientist put two similar hamsters in a cage together with two bottles of water to drink from - one laced with some nicotine. Both drank from each bottle...but one of the hamsters drank for the nicotine-bottle almost constantly...the other seemed to do so randomly, drinking normal water more. They were pre-disposed to a certain addiction level! For one hampster it only took a few sips to get hooked - the other might have eventually, but did not in the same period of time.

    Basically, this means that if your parents are both smokers...you have a chance to be as well. The only way for those people to avoid addiction is to stay away from it right from the start/

  6. #31
    mouse monkey
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    Hi,

    I find the drinking age and age limits on other laws like driving very wierd as they change from country to country. I live in England and the age limit is 18 but I'm sure there are a lot of shops that sell it to people arond 14 and then there are other that ask for ID untill you are about 25. I went on holiday to Minorca this year and the age limit there was 16 and then in America it is 21 and I think they are also very strict on it (My siter went who is 26 and got asked for ID most times she tryed to buy alcohol).

    I only just really started thinking abouy this about 5 minutes ago when I saw this post, I know LuZeR
    said something similar but I think that the age limit should depend on the alcohol content of the drink so people around 16 couldn't get a really strong spirit but would be allowed to drink beer and then a 21 or 18 year old can basically drink what they want. Although again I think that it is a matter of maturity although it is nearly imposible to measure someones maturity. Someone said that even mature people do stupid things when they are drunk, this is true but surley they are less likely to get so drunk they can't control themselves.

  7. #32
    Destiny Manager Plebius's Avatar
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    Originally posted by TWTCommish

    I expect Luzer to disagree...but so be it. I guarentee this: you legalize marijuana and lower the drinking age and you get more violence and at least a few more people killed - is that really worth it?
    Actually you get rid of a lot of organized crime and so less people are killed. The government won't have to spend $400,000,000,000,000 zillion dollars a year fighting a losing battle and 60% of Americans won't have to be considered criminals worthy of a lengthy stint in the state penitentiary. Further, the US government won't have to support a Guerilla anti-drug army in Columbia that massacres countless innocent citizens in the quest to stop export of drugs to the US. The money we save could go to education and health care for those that choose to be idiots and use drugs. Also, since it would be legal, the government could regulate it and tax it so they would get even more money for schools, highways and hospitals. The black market would virtually disappear.

    I dunno about anybody else, but I drank all the time in high school. By making alcohol illegal, you encourage teens to get drunk because they figure they might as well get drunk as long as they have the alcohol.

  8. #33
    SitePoint Wizard TWTCommish's Avatar
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    Making it illegal ENCOURAGES drinking? In some cases yes...but if you're going to drink while its illegal, you're certainly going to while its legal. I'd say that most people would not drink BECAUSE they can't...the whole "forbidden fruit" thing doesn't go that far.

    I've heard the theories on how legalizing things cuts down on crime...of course it does: if there are no laws - crime would be at an all time low!

    The government should NOT strongly enforce or go out of its way to stop the use of marijuana - but I don't think it should be made legal.

  9. #34
    Serial Publisher silver trophy aspen's Avatar
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    I've done quite a bit of research on the legalization of marijauna and the facts really support it.

    1. The study showing Marijuana caused brain damage was done in the 70s on monkeys and has never been repeated. In the scientific community if you cannot repeat someone's results it invalidates the original experiment. Furthermore a chemical within marijuana, Cannibidiol (CBD) because of the way it binds to receptors in the brain actually prevents brain damage, they are currently working on a synthetic form to give to stroke victims in the ER.

    2. The united states spends $300 million a year just destroying wild growing marijuana (ragweed, hemp etc), not to mention the costs of imprisoning, investigating, and arresting weed smokers who would otherwise obey the laws. All of this effort because of a drug that the deputy director of the DEA has described as "Not that bad"

    3. If marijuana was legalized, regulated, and taxed any violent drug dealings concerning it would be a thing of the past.

    4. If marijuana was legalized, regulated, and taxed the US goverment could spend more resources fighting dangerous drugs such as Heroin and Cocaine.

    5. If marijuana was legalized, regulated, and taxed we can assume that the "weed" tax would provide money our government could use on healthcare or the education system.

    6. Studies have shown marijuana is less addictive than caffeine.

    7. Marijuana has more antioxidants than Vitamin E or Garlic, which means it is very good at preventing cancer.

    8. If Marijuana was legalized, regulated, and taxed the chance of buying weed mixed with heroin or cocaine would diminish if not disappear and lives would be saved.

    9. In countries where Marijuana has been legalized teen drug use of it has gone down, overall drug use of hard drugs has gone down, and the government is getting alot of money.



    I think marijuana should be legalized with a 21 age limit, and I think nicotene should be moved up to 21, and alcohol should stay at 21.

    Chris


  10. #35
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    I think that the age limit should depend on the alcohol content of the drink so people around 16 couldn't get a really strong spirit but would be allowed to drink beer and then a 21 or 18 year old can basically drink what they want.
    That's actually the case in Germany. An I think it works very well.

    I think this earlier contact with alcohol actually teaches people to deal responsibly with it. Many people I met here a just as irresponsible with drinking at the age of 19 or 20 as the majority of teenagers in Germany at the age of maybe 15 or 16. So by setting the legal age for drinking to 21 the 'problem' is just delayed a little bit, but not solved.

    But why not ban guns, that would probably save a lot more lives and lower the overall level of violence in the big cities than the current regulations regarding alcohol or marijuana.

    Johannes

  11. #36
    SitePoint Wizard TWTCommish's Avatar
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    Why? Because banning guns gives total power to those with them...I will own a gun someday and do NOT want that right taken away. There is a small town in this country (I do not recall which state) that has a higher percentage of gun-owners than basically any other town around...it's crime rate is miniscule.

    Anyway...if you're going to legalize marijuana, I would not be terribly upset...but an age limit DEFINETLY needs to be set...that's for sure.

  12. #37
    Hi there! Owen's Avatar
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    Off topic, but.. The right to own a gun is in this little unimportant document (the constitution) and therefore in is unable to be taken away by law... unlike the drinking age which is not a "fundemental right"...

    Owen

  13. #38
    SitePoint Guru CJ's Avatar
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    In Belgium you cans tart drink at the age of 0 years, 0 days, 0 hours, 0 minutes and 1 second

    I think there shouldn't be a set on alcohol because you can only drink it before the age of 14 without getting sick after a bit

    And drunk kids don't cause problems. They can't drive a car and probably are too weak to do something wrong.

    Christophe

  14. #39
    SitePoint Wizard TWTCommish's Avatar
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    Drunk kids can DEFINETLY cause a problem...wander into traffic, bump into things. It won't happen often, but a drunk kid can definetly cause trouble.

    BTW: people can drive at 16...IE: drunk driving possible at that age...otherwise it would be 21. Drunk driving is ALREADY one of the highest causes of death amonst young people.

  15. #40
    Destiny Manager Plebius's Avatar
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    Originally posted by TWTCommish

    BTW: people can drive at 16...IE: drunk driving possible at that age...otherwise it would be 21. Drunk driving is ALREADY one of the highest causes of death amonst young people.
    So why not lower the drinking age and increase the driving age?

  16. #41
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    There is something i would like to make clear because i feel a fake problem.

    There is a legal age to drink alcohol, but there is not legal age to be drunk.
    In each country the legal age to buy alcohol is different as well as the alcohol tolerance.
    But i never heard about a legal age to make heavy abuse of alcohol!
    So of course if people consider that being legaly able to buy alcohol mean that they can be drunk as much as they want >>> they are wrong!

    Being allow to drive doesn't mean that you always have to drive at 120 miles/hour.

    Age doesn't sound like changing a lot.
    I think that alcohol education can be better than age restriction.
    After all your family know you better than the government.
    They know if you are mature enough to drink or not.

    I've been drinking alcohol young, but that didn't made me an alcoholic.
    My family did control what i was drinking, and when the time to go out with my friends came, i was aware of the effect of alcohol.
    I think that have been a really good way to deal with alcohol problem. And that certainly can be a good way for other than me.

  17. #42
    SitePoint Wizard TWTCommish's Avatar
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    Originally posted by LuZeR
    Originally posted by TWTCommish

    BTW: people can drive at 16...IE: drunk driving possible at that age...otherwise it would be 21. Drunk driving is ALREADY one of the highest causes of death amonst young people.
    So why not lower the drinking age and increase the driving age?
    Because something like that would put more, younger, people at risk just so some teenagers could indulge themselves sooner. We're not talking about water or some other sort of vital material - it's alcohol...they'll live waiting a bit longer. I think the driving age is basically fine where it is, but I wouldn't fret if it were increased a year.

  18. #43
    Sports Publisher mjames's Avatar
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    I think that the reason you aren't allowed to drink/buy alcohol until age 21 is because people between 16-20 can be very immature and it can be a dangerous situation with them getting out of control. As somebody else already said, 16-year-olds can barely drive as it is, LET ALONE drink at the same time.

    BTW, (unfortunatly), you have to be like 17.5 to drive in Jersey, where I live. Guess I have a few more years of that dang school bus.

  19. #44
    SitePoint Wizard
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    I have said this before, but I'll say it again.

    If a kid who is 16 wants a beer, he'll get one. Making it illegal encourages the kid (he thinks its cool to do illegal things).

    I think that drinking is wrong altogether (there is no point to it) and I don't plan on drinking for my entire life...

  20. #45
    SitePoint Wizard jumpthru's Avatar
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    I dont plan on driking either. Also in washignton they just increased the driving age like six months or a year or something. You get a interrmediate lincese. Anyone know anymore about that? Stupid stupid, I cant belive they increase it when I am close to being able to get a license (I'm 14).

  21. #46
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    I think the arguement about alcohol age restrictions and drunk driving are getting confused. No-one should drink and drive at any age, I believe that it should be illegal to drive with any alcohol in your system, as it is in some countries in Europe. I believe that in Germany after every car crash those involved are breathlised and anyone with alcohol in their system is charged, can anyone from Germany confirm this? I think that by starting to drink before you are old enough to drive is a good thing, it gives you time to experience what being drunk does to your body and hopefully teaches you that you really aren't up to driving. SOme people will always think 'they can handle it' when it comes to drinking and driving, but I don't think it realates to age.

    Regarding guns (kind of off topic but seeing as we're there anyway). I believe the constitution said that it was your right to bare arms to fight the english, do you really need that now? The only time you fight the english now is in the Gulf(US troops killed more Brits than the Iraqis!). But I think that it is now part of your culture and so I don't think things will change, and seeing as the gun culture is within your own country, and your people shooting each other then it is up to you to deal with it.

    In England we have VERY strict gun laws. Possibly too strict in my opinion. I believe that you should be able to shoot for sport, but that the guns should never leave the range. If you are using a gun for sport why would you need it in the house. If sport shooting ranges were still around I would love to go back to shooting, I use to shoot the SMG (sub-machine gun) for a team when I was in the army, and it was great.

    Does any of what I've said make sense or is it all as jumbled as I think it is?

    Peter
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  22. #47
    @russellg RussellG's Avatar
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    I go to parties where theres drugs, alcohol etc, I don't go to these parties because I think I'm 'cool' but because I want to, and I get along with the people at these parties.

    It doesn't matter how hard anyone tries to stop people smoking, drinking, sniffing, injecting and smoking weed, people find a way.

    BTW, just because I have mentioned such things doesn't mean I do them FYI.
    russell.cz.cc - coming soon (I promise!)

  23. #48
    SitePoint Wizard TWTCommish's Avatar
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    Same here...I've never had more than a sip of alcohol (I was a little kid) and never seen SEEN a joint(the advantage of being homeschooled I suppose).

    I do agree with Peter on some things (that makes 3 total bud!): you shouldn't have any alcohol in your system. The law requires .10 or lower I think...but studies have shown that just one small cup of beer can effect things...if only slightly.



  24. #49
    @russellg RussellG's Avatar
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    Yeah if you haven't seen one now dont worry about it.

    Not meaning to break away from the topic but is homeschool good? I ask because I saw an episode of South Park where they made fun of some homeschool kids

    <edit>That was my 100th post! </edit>
    russell.cz.cc - coming soon (I promise!)

  25. #50
    SitePoint Wizard TWTCommish's Avatar
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    I saw the same episode - pretty funny stuff.

    I enjoy homeschool. Downside is I get less science and biology and the like, but I have more freedom to pursue more basics: reading, writing, computers.

    Yes, SOME (SOME!!!) homeschoolers are socially akward like the ones you see in that episode...but that was very stereotypical and is not like the ones I know at all.

    Most people are surprised to hear that me and my siblings are homeschooled - we're all very outgoing and none of us are the shy, "hidden-away" type. Hey: people used to homeschool their kids before we had public schools anyway.

    I would recommend it to anyone who has the time. I still have friends...but I find I have fewer friends than otherwise, only each one of them is closer to me...IE: 3 really good friends as opposed to 10 friends I know fairly well.

    I'm too caught up in work and projects to care anyway!

    Oh and for the record: I was homeschooled until I was 10 (5th grade)...at that time I went into public school for a year...aced it there, first half of the year was tough...got used to it all the second half of the year. Came back to homeschool and it's been that way since then.

    Congrats on your posts! The addiction only gets worse from here...


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