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  1. #26
    SitePoint Enthusiast yangyang's Avatar
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    Putting yourself in the shoes of others is the solution to LOTS of problems people face today. It's weird why most of us fail to do so. Probably because we feel too good about ourselves and never bother.

    I would stop thinking of my business in terms of money (really) but how I can actually help my customers achieve their goals in ways I can manage. It's cliche, I know, but it does work. I would not take their money unless I absolutely deserve it. In fact, I too often am the one who offered to issue a full refund. It's funny people would usually not take it when given the option. They are much more likely to come back for more.

    When you have such a heart and mindset, people can feel it. From your site design and copy-writing and everything, people know that you are not like everyone else that everything they say and sales page they create were for one thing: taking their money and then whatever.
    I blog about making websites, technically.
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  2. #27
    It's all Geek to me silver trophybronze trophy
    ralph.m's Avatar
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    Great points, @yangyang , and very well expressed! I agree entirely.

  3. #28
    SitePoint Mentor silver trophybronze trophy

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    Quote Originally Posted by 3dy.ro View Post
    He didn't suggest that the client should do the research, he said that you should do it, in case your client hasn't done it before (because he most likely doesn't know how to do it properly himself).
    Well noted!

    Quote Originally Posted by Stomme poes
    If a company is not willing to find out what their visitors want, they do not deserve many visitors. But it is a common view of clients: they want a website, for whatever reasons. Because simply having one will magically make money. That's why you see sites with weird stuff, as some CEO wanted it but nobody who actually visits to use the site actually give a rat's, or are confused by it, or it prevents them from meeting their own goals.
    Completely agreed. However, this does not help me from improving my websites. The issue is many clients think on those terms. They all believe a website will magically stand on it's own two feet and bring them money like they've never seen, and sometime afterwards (when they've exhausted their budget) they find out it's not the case. Much of what we do is educating the clients into understanding that their expectations are not a reality. Now I have a bigger issue on my hands, convincing clients to undergo content writing services because of the benefits of this, and how it's possible to do this properly. I've already opened another thread for this question.

    Quote Originally Posted by yangyang
    Putting yourself in the shoes of others is the solution to LOTS of problems people face today. It's weird why most of us fail to do so. Probably because we feel too good about ourselves and never bother.

    I would stop thinking of my business in terms of money (really) but how I can actually help my customers achieve their goals in ways I can manage. It's cliche, I know, but it does work. I would not take their money unless I absolutely deserve it. In fact, I too often am the one who offered to issue a full refund. It's funny people would usually not take it when given the option. They are much more likely to come back for more.

    When you have such a heart and mindset, people can feel it. From your site design and copy-writing and everything, people know that you are not like everyone else that everything they say and sales page they create were for one thing: taking their money and then whatever.
    This is very true. I like to work in this way. For example, I would ask them what they want from a website, and if they want to advertising and drive traffic to their site. You'd be suprized how many think a website includes the traffic it comes with. For website's which depend on traffic (eCommerce) I sell SEO and online advertising with it, for other sites (in the real world) which have a small clientèle I focus on other solutions.

    I must admit, there are times when clients are far too right for their own good. I recently experienced a client who did not want to spend 20 or so EUR extra on something. There is very little you can do to help those ones.

    I recently offered a cash back, and they did come back for a deal twice a BIG. For me it's not about the money, we still have to make a living. I personally prefer to charge cheaper and get the client and work on improving their image and web presence. So far it's working well.

    There are times when having a good heart can cause problems. For instance, clients can get too demanding and expect freebies as their green-eyed monster grows, having said this it's important to set the boundaries. I recently read an article on SP that nightmare client are of our own making. I somewhat disagree to that, there are people who view business in a dog-eat-dog-world way and as such those clients are likely to break your business model (in the big scheme of things they never win, but there you have it!). On the contrary good people work well with other good people, and those people are likely to progress in business and generally life.

    For me successful people create other successful people, but it's not always as simple as this, there are times unsuccessful people fail to become successful because of the way they view business and their outlook on winning.
    follow me on ayyelo, Easy WordPress; specializing in setting up themes!

  4. #29
    SitePoint Zealot Lieto's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by molona View Post
    Taking the most pesimistic figure and dividing it by two is sensible. It is true that @Lieto ; is taking a risk but if he goes for guaranteed results (which is what many customer wants) and he doesn't deliver then he would have to extra-spend more cash in his adwords campaigns (or other forms of advertisement) at no charge. That is, he will have to promote it harder to reach a higher number of people until the figure is meant or compensate his customer in some other way (unless he wants a law suit, of course )
    Exactly. I always liked how predictable are internet campaigns compared to offline. Whenever youve done your part of research and everything is set correctly and you dont experiment with your banners and web site layout you can estimate CTR and CR really accurately. You might not get best results when you dont take risks in design but it is predictable. Cant imagine site conversion being lower then 1% and banner conversion lower then 0,05%. It happens once in 100 projects and its a risk a company can afford to take.

  5. #30
    Foozle Reducer ServerStorm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stomme poes View Post
    If a company is not willing to find out what their visitors want, they do not deserve many visitors. But it is a common view of clients: they want a website, for whatever reasons. Because simply having one will magically make money. That's why you see sites with weird stuff, as some CEO wanted it but nobody who actually visits to use the site actually give a rat's, or are confused by it, or it prevents them from meeting their own goals.

    Customers visit a web site with a goal, or set of goals in mind. They visit for their own good, not the good of your client, and usually not specifically to give out money (sometimes so). If your client's website does not meet those goals, the customer is smart to go to the competition.

    If the site is, for example, the local animal kennel, the goal is to get rid of animals. If the site is a habitat project, the goal is to get volunteers and materials. If the site is a public library, the goal is to allow access to your books and media. If the site is NASA, the goal is to show everyone how awesome they are so they can get income (as you stated above).
    To meet those goals, you really have to know the goals of the visitors, and generally it's a good idea to meet them... which you can't do very well if you don't know them.
    The idea around 'goals' given by @Stomme poes ; is pivotal to the question posed by Sega. A web designer should help a company to focus a sites goals. The goals should be to connect with their customers as well as potential customers. By engaging with customers and listening to them we can find out what they want from a business. This is also true when 'business' is not involved, if you have a passion, belong to a group or just want to have fun then you need to understand your communication goals as your end product will be your site.

    I have several sites that I don't care if anyone visits because they are just sandboxes used for purely creative ideas. Many people may see this as a 'waste' but I don't because my goal is to do neat creative things that people won't necessarily buy but I learn about how to refine these ideas into things that will eventually be meaningful to people.

    Your communication goals need to be clearly defined. From this will come your content and then your designs.

    Regards,
    Steve
    ictus==""

  6. #31
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    sometimes the client does not even know what they want from a website ... good website creation involves detailed investigation of the client's market and competition before the design even begins

  7. #32
    Non-Member deshmeaaj3's Avatar
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    The real purpose of website is to make a worldwide reach for your business if you are a businessman because if your business is online then you can get clients worldwide and you have to face a tough competition from which you can know your market standing plus it will increase your knowledge and understanding about your field. So, a website can be used for all round development and making a brighter future.


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