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  1. #51
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    Non English peoples spelling and grammar can sometimes be below average, but I wouldn't goes as far to say that it annoying. Most foreign people know a good amount of English anyway and even if for example a non English person writes a post it is usually broken English bit not to the point that I cannot understand them. The internet is for everyone hence the "www." before all domains

  2. #52
    SitePoint Member swapnilramani's Avatar
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    It doesn't matter whether you are a native English speaker or not unless the person who is listening you, is able to understand you and having a proper conversations with you, yes, there are many sites, where there is poor english grammar mistakes done by the People from abroad, but till the time you are able to properly communicate to the person and understand what he/she is trying to tell you, there will be no issue or no question to get annoyed.

  3. #53
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    I think that should not be too much of problem in communication between non-English speaker to an English speaker, until they are understanding what they trying to communicate with each other. But if they are really unable to understand each others language and dialogue, it's really irritating.

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shyflower View Post
    I believe that syntax is more of an issue than grammar, but of the two it is much easier to check for grammar errors. Although one can expect a non-English speaker to make grammatical errors, nobody likes to visit a sloppy site. Correct punctuation and capitalization show the visitor that, although the content may come from one who's first language is not English, at least they are making an effort to get it right.

    Moreover, I don't consider a Facebook discussion to be a credible reference on the ins and outs of English usage in a website, especially since user names often make users anonymous and profiles can be falsified to appear to come from a country that is not the home of the Facebook member.
    I am not really referring to contents online. I was referring to speaking the English language in general, although I get what you mean. When it comes to web contents, one has to make sure that you are writing at your best, with correct grammar and use of punctuation. Otherwise, it wouldn't be that interesting to read, like you need to read it back again to see what was really meant and all...

  5. #55
    Word Painter silver trophy Shyflower's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ng_Xen View Post
    I am not really referring to contents online. I was referring to speaking the English language in general, although I get what you mean. When it comes to web contents, one has to make sure that you are writing at your best, with correct grammar and use of punctuation. Otherwise, it wouldn't be that interesting to read, like you need to read it back again to see what was really meant and all...
    My comments are meant to address the OP's question in the original post
    Please tell me how you feel reading at few mistakes in a post or a content...
    Linda Jenkinson
    "Say what you mean. Mean what you say. But don't say it mean." ~Unknown

  6. #56
    SitePoint Zealot Spartinman's Avatar
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    I'm actually guilty of thinking that a non-English speaker has less of intelligence than me or my English speaking peers. I don't know why this is so, but when they cannot understand your English words and stumble over trying to speak them, it just comes off as non-intelligent. Do you all ever get that feeling? I know you do. Just admit it. So with content on the internet using a .com with another language other than English, is sometimes the same thing with me. I don't know why, i need to get over it i guess.

  7. #57
    Word Painter silver trophy Shyflower's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spartinman View Post
    I'm actually guilty of thinking that a non-English speaker has less of intelligence than me or my English speaking peers. I don't know why this is so, but when they cannot understand your English words and stumble over trying to speak them, it just comes off as non-intelligent. Do you all ever get that feeling? I know you do. Just admit it. So with content on the internet using a .com with another language other than English, is sometimes the same thing with me. I don't know why, i need to get over it i guess.

    I agree. You need to get over it. Consider the fact that the person who doesn't speak great English, does speak another language that you probably can't speak or read. In fact, most of the people I know from outside of the US speak more than two languages.
    Linda Jenkinson
    "Say what you mean. Mean what you say. But don't say it mean." ~Unknown

  8. #58
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    Yes, given that this thread is about irritation, that's what really irritates me—when native speakers mock the efforts of someone trying to communicate in their language, when they themselves wouldn't have a clue how to string two words together in the speaker's language. The height of arrogance. Surely the natural emotion is to appreciate their efforts and do one's best to understand what they are saying.

  9. #59
    Mouse catcher silver trophy Stevie D's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ralph.m View Post
    when native speakers mock the efforts of someone trying to communicate in their language, when they themselves wouldn't have a clue how to string two words together in the speaker's language.
    ...or even in their own! The standard of communication from a great many native English speakers is woeful, and often bettered by people who have learned it as a second/third/more language.

  10. #60
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    Off Topic:

    Quote Originally Posted by Stevie D View Post
    ...or even in their own! The standard of communication from a great many native English speakers is woeful, and often bettered by people who have learned it as a second/third/more language.
    Sorry mate, dunno wotcha torken about ...

  11. #61
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    In the first place, language barriers is a real shield... but there's no tough boundaries that can't be turned down for business.... your work of hand is your masterpiece, your name is your brand... and the detail of your work is your autograph...

  12. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spartinman View Post
    I'm actually guilty of thinking that a non-English speaker has less of intelligence than me or my English speaking peers. I don't know why this is so, but when they cannot understand your English words and stumble over trying to speak them, it just comes off as non-intelligent. Do you all ever get that feeling? I know you do. Just admit it. So with content on the internet using a .com with another language other than English, is sometimes the same thing with me. I don't know why, i need to get over it i guess.
    I couldn't agree with you more. Because of the language barrier, the person who know so little about the language on that certain place may come off as dumb. I was once a in a place where everyone speaks the local language, it made me feel outcast. It was hard making friends so I think we should just go easy on them.

  13. #63
    SitePoint Member Jakbeas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SMSF101 View Post
    In the first place, language barriers is a real shield... but there's no tough boundaries that can't be turned down for business.... your work of hand is your masterpiece, your name is your brand... and the detail of your work is your autograph...
    Not sure what you mean "language barriers is a real shield.... ect. no tough boundaries". Being able to communicate effectively does hinder what other perceive when viewing your masterpiece, brand and autograph.

  14. #64
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    A native speaker doesn't mean he/she is better in grammar. From my experience, many non-native English speaker are better in writings with less grammatical error.

  15. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spartinman View Post
    I'm actually guilty of thinking that a non-English speaker has less of intelligence than me or my English speaking peers. I don't know why this is so, but when they cannot understand your English words and stumble over trying to speak them, it just comes off as non-intelligent. Do you all ever get that feeling? I know you do. Just admit it. So with content on the internet using a .com with another language other than English, is sometimes the same thing with me. I don't know why, i need to get over it i guess.
    Would really encourage you to look past it, but at least you're honest and provide relevant information in the context of the thread.

    English is not the most spoken language in the world, though yes, on the internet it most probably is.

  16. #66
    SitePoint Wizard Stomme poes's Avatar
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    I forgot to share a funny story with you. You know the great George Bernard Shaw. He has wanted to reform the English alphabet to be a phonetic one. He described the need of reform with the word "GHOTIO" which should sound as [fiʃ].
    I expected better from that man! The atrocious spelling of English is due to the history of the words, and indeed how a word is spelled often tells where the word comes from and where its meaning comes from. Which makes studying language so interesting. The "gh" in the example-- is where English took an actual sound from related languages (ch as in the end of the Scottish word "loch") became an "F" sound later. In Dutch you still see these spellings:
    vracht - freight
    kocht - bought (the b sound is actually from another word for buy, but the past-tense form ch-gh is the same)

    The more you go back to Old English, the more like old Dutch it becomes. Similarly, words taken from Latin and Greek leave their meanings in the spelling. Which lets us do silly things like say "Down on the pharm". If we had phonetic spelling, we'd lose that. And any new words, you wouldn't have any chance to take a good guess what they might mean.

    Though I remember back when I thought non-plussed meant *not* surprised, since the look of someone's face when surprised sure looks like it could be described as "plussed". +

    Quote Originally Posted by spartinman
    I'm actually guilty of thinking that a non-English speaker has less of intelligence than me or my English speaking peers. I don't know why this is so, but when they cannot understand your English words and stumble over trying to speak them, it just comes off as non-intelligent. Do you all ever get that feeling?
    This is very true. It is one of the reasons researchers believe minorities in the US pass fewer job interviews, and why foreigners in any land are often seen as stupid or uneducated. When you don't speak a language well, you do a lot of the same things stupid people do: using short words, repeating yourself, relying on body language. If you sound like Borat, you sound stupid.

    And while it's noble (and smart) to remind yourself that another's language use can't really show how smart or dumb they are, it's true (and maybe a basic human thing, I dunno) that people assume intelligence based on language skills.

    So it's not just you. It's what happens all over the world. It's why people speak of the "dumb animals" and then "dumb" started meaning "stupid", when actually it merely means not speaking. Why the deaf and autistic were considered stupid for so many centuries.

  17. #67
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    I absolutely hate working with clients that don't know proper English. Then half of the time they get mad at me for not getting their design right but I can't even understand them, aha.

  18. #68
    Mazel tov! bronze trophy kohoutek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jVex View Post
    I absolutely hate working with clients that don't know proper English. Then half of the time they get mad at me for not getting their design right but I can't even understand them, aha.
    Then why are you taking on projects by people whose native language isn't English to begin with? You're doing them (and their investment) a huge disservice. I find that to be somewhat irresponsible. Such a project is doomed to fail before it has even started, given that the ability to communicate is not only the primary key to delivering a proper solution, it's absolutely and categorically essential and I find it absolutely understandable that a client would get mad. I would, too.
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  19. #69
    SitePoint Member WebsiteWriter's Avatar
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    It doesn't bother me one bit when I speak with somebody who is still learning. If we're talking about writing then it only bothers me if I can't understand what they are trying to communicate. In most cases, if you let the people you are writing to know in advance that you are still learning they are willing to work with you if you bring value to the table. It doesn't matter so much what language you speak. What matters is effective communication.

    That said, there are ***** everywhere you go and some people hate anybody who isn't like them. There will be haters and there is nothing you can do about them but ignore them.

  20. #70
    SitePoint Zealot Spartinman's Avatar
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    Okay, got another one for you. How about do you ever realize that you start to speak with a slight accent when talking to say a Hispanic speaking in a heavy accent and when they are not all that fluent with English??? You start to change your words to make it sound like theirs sometimes?? Does that happen to others or is it just me??? Not being racists or anything, just stating the rather obvious.

  21. #71
    Word Painter silver trophy Shyflower's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spartinman View Post
    Okay, got another one for you. How about do you ever realize that you start to speak with a slight accent when talking to say a Hispanic speaking in a heavy accent and when they are not all that fluent with English??? You start to change your words to make it sound like theirs sometimes?? Does that happen to others or is it just me??? Not being racists or anything, just stating the rather obvious.
    I lived in Texas for 6 months and came back to Minnesota with a drawl. Took me forever to get rid of it again! Does that answer your question?
    Linda Jenkinson
    "Say what you mean. Mean what you say. But don't say it mean." ~Unknown

  22. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spartinman View Post
    do you ever realize that you start to speak with a slight accent when talking to ...
    I do it for fun—if not to their face, then in my mind, or after they're gone. It's fun to copy accents.

  23. #73
    SitePoint Wizard bronze trophy PicnicTutorials's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stevie D View Post
    What I find much more irritating than mistakes by non-English people are serious mistakes (or just really bad writing) by native English speakers. When reading something that isn't perfect English, it's usually pretty easy to tell whether the author is a native English speaker or not the style is very different and I have much more patience with someone who is writing in a foreign language than someone who hasn't made the effort to master their own.
    Well said

  24. #74
    SitePoint Member joshuagnizak's Avatar
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    To any non-native English speakers: How is this problem for you when it comes to people who don't speak your language perfectly? How is it when an American butchers Dutch, Chinese, German, or French?

  25. #75
    Mouse catcher silver trophy Stevie D's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spartinman View Post
    Okay, got another one for you. How about do you ever realize that you start to speak with a slight accent when talking to say a Hispanic speaking in a heavy accent and when they are not all that fluent with English??? You start to change your words to make it sound like theirs sometimes?? Does that happen to others or is it just me??? Not being racists or anything, just stating the rather obvious.
    Sometimes it's about trying to make yourself understood. If I'm talking to, let's say, an Italian who is struggling to understand me, my guess is that he hasn't got much experience of listening to English people – he may have had English lessons from an Italian person and find English spoken with an Italian accent is more familiar. So I may modify my pronunciation to see if that helps. But I certainly wouldn't ever deliberately mock someone's accent in that way.

    Quote Originally Posted by joshuagnizak View Post
    To any non-native English speakers: How is this problem for you when it comes to people who don't speak your language perfectly? How is it when an American butchers Dutch, Chinese, German, or French?
    That's a good point, and why I always try to be tolerant of people who are not native English speakers and who make mistakes. I can get by in French or Spanish for the basics, but not really enough to hold a proper conversation any more – I could when I left school but just haven't had the opportunity to keep it going – and apart from being able to recognise odd words in other languages I would really struggle ... and the thing is, I know that I am a much better linguist than most English people!


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