SitePoint Sponsor

User Tag List

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 82

Hybrid View

  1. #1
    SitePoint Enthusiast
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    44
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Are there any higher level developers on here, or just code hackers?

    I'm just curious, with the threads I'm reading. I thought sitepoint was used by developers, but I'm not so certain now. Just trying to work out if this is a good place to ask more difficult code questions, or if I should look elsewhere?

    Cheers.

  2. #2
    SitePoint Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    California, USA
    Posts
    12
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Depending on your definition, one could say that developers and "code hackers" are pretty much the same thing.
    Both of which utilize codes to create or alter things, so the differences between the two aren't too significant.

    There are plenty of hard-core Web developers here, but there are also a lot of people who do it merely as a hobby.
    Site Point is a magnificent place to ask both beginner questions as well as advanced ones.

    Best of luck to you.

  3. #3
    SitePoint Enthusiast
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    44
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Unfortunately so far I've received no "advanced" responses, nor read any, hence my question.

    And from legitimate honesty, wanting to work out if this is really a place to learn from at that level.

  4. #4
    SitePoint Wizard bronze trophy Jeff Mott's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    1,246
    Mentioned
    16 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by deeve007 View Post
    Unfortunately so far I've received no "advanced" responses, nor read any, hence my question.
    Quite often, the answers you get depends on how you ask the question. For example, I think the question about responsive design and CSS frameworks is asking for an overly comprehensive answer. The question was framed in a way that it can only be answered by someone who has intimate knowledge of not just one or two, but a half dozen CSS frameworks, and that person has to be willing to dedicate a significant amount of time to write out a half dozen sets of pros and cons... all in his spare time, just for funsies.

    A couple guidelines we can learn from this:
    - If a question requires an essay to answer, it's unlikely to get an answer.
    - If a question is on a highly specialized topic (CSS frameworks in general are not wildly popular), then you won't get much help from a general purpose forum. You'd probably need to go to the actual websites for each CSS framework and talk to those specialized communities.

    deeve007: I thought sitepoint was used by developers, but I'm not so certain now.
    CMS Dude: If you want people to help you, then you might consider a different approach to your introduction.
    deeve007: If you can suggest another way to ask the question then please do.
    Probably a better way to start this thread would have been just to ask, "Why am I not getting good answers?" Then link to a specific example so we can give you a specific reason. But because you instead suggested that we all seem like a bunch of amateurs, you've already alienated anyone who might actually be able and willing to help you.
    "First make it work. Then make it better."

  5. #5
    SitePoint Enthusiast
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    44
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Mott View Post
    Quite often, the answers you get depends on how you ask the question. For example, I think the question about responsive design and CSS frameworks is asking for an overly comprehensive answer. The question was framed in a way that it can only be answered by someone who has intimate knowledge of not just one or two, but a half dozen CSS frameworks, and that person has to be willing to dedicate a significant amount of time to write out a half dozen sets of pros and cons... all in his spare time, just for funsies.

    A couple guidelines we can learn from this:
    - If a question requires an essay to answer, it's unlikely to get an answer.
    - If a question is on a highly specialized topic (CSS frameworks in general are not wildly popular), then you won't get much help from a general purpose forum. You'd probably need to go to the actual websites for each CSS framework and talk to those specialized communities.
    Then perhaps those responses could go into those threads? On the forums I'm actively involved with, I will frequently add a response into a new thread that I believe is better suited for elsewhere along the lines of "Maybe you should try <such and such> for a question like this?". Or I might add something like, "This question's been asked a lot, try the forum search" ...etc.

    Probably a better way to start this thread would have been just to ask, "Why am I not getting good answers?" Then link to a specific example so we can give you a specific reason. But because you instead suggested that we all seem like a bunch of amateurs, you've already alienated anyone who might actually be able and willing to help you.
    Look, there could always be a different/better/smarter way to write anything, by anyone. I could spend hours just criticising the way people write forum threads/posts/comments within the communities I am involved in frequently. But does that help the situation, or add to any perceived problem? As I've stated, I don't find "code hacker" offensive, even if someone directed it at me. I've never before come across a community where it was deemed or perceived by anyone as offensive.

    So to me it seems like the word "Pom". Majority - indeed, almost all - English do not find this offensive at all, and take it in the spirit it is meant. Just as the majority of Australians take the "convict" jibe in similar good humour. However I have come across one or two English in my time who have taken offence at the term. So does that make the term offensive, or simply a term I should not use in the presence of those people? I think the latter, just as now I will ensure I don't use the term "code hacker" again on this forum.

    So again, I do apologise to those who have taken offence, it wasn't my intention, however I don't believe I have been offensive. There is a difference, and there are a hundred real word examples of where a similar situation would result.

  6. #6
    SitePoint Wizard bronze trophy Jeff Mott's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    1,246
    Mentioned
    16 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by deeve007 View Post
    You'd probably need to go to the actual websites for each CSS framework and talk to those specialized communities.
    Then perhaps those responses could go into those threads?
    Sometimes that happens, but sometimes not, because there's no one person overseeing each thread to make sure it's answered. From my own experiences, if I come across a question that I don't have the answer to, then I just move on and leave it for someone else who may have the answer.


    Quote Originally Posted by deeve007 View Post
    As I've stated, I don't find "code hacker" offensive, even if someone directed it at me. I've never before come across a community where it was deemed or perceived by anyone as offensive.
    I don't even know what the term "code hacker" is supposed to mean, but the rest of the phrasing in your subject line is what makes it sound derogatory.

    Are you a professional or just a ....

    Whatever word comes next will carry negative connotations because of that lead-in. You've already set it up to be something non-professional and of lesser importance.
    "First make it work. Then make it better."

  7. #7
    Non-Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Posts
    21
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by deeve007 View Post
    I'm just curious, with the threads I'm reading. I thought sitepoint was used by developers, but I'm not so certain now. Just trying to work out if this is a good place to ask more difficult code questions, or if I should look elsewhere?
    I guess it depends on what you expect to learn free of charge.

    Forums like this are good to get help on particular issues. Not to become an expert on all aspects of web development. I doubt any knowledgeable people learnt their stuff solely from forums. Personally I give more time and detailed answers to paying customers.

  8. #8
    SitePoint Enthusiast
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    44
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I'm not here to "become an expert on all aspects of web development", after 15 years I'm pretty happy with where I am. I just thought there was more technically advanced users than there are here, is all.

    But don't worry about it, not important.

  9. #9
    SitePoint Wizard bronze trophy
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Location
    Vancouver BC Canada
    Posts
    2,029
    Mentioned
    5 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    @deeve007 ; I sort of understand where you'd get the impression that high level developers are few and far between on SP these days. At one point this was the place to be if you were on the bleeding edge of web (and some desktop) development. That seems to have changed over the years... I can still name a few members here who are hardcore coders but they are just a handful compared to just a few years ago.

    The discussions have changed too which reflects the changing demographic. There seem to be a lot more questions surrounding point and click, download a theme and add a bunch of features rather than how do I extend the system by accessing hooks of an API. I miss the old days of discussions that dug beneath the surface.

    The PHP forum used to include a subforum that contained "PHP Application Design" which was more of the hard core development stuff. The CMS forum use to have a subforum for WordPress which I also thought was a good idea because most WP questions are about configuration and that left the rest of the CMS section open to general CMS development questions about any CMS approach. I tend to think mos people think that this section is only for WP and as a result don't post or answer questions about anything else.

    Oh and look in the articles archives from the last 10 or 12 years... There are some really good articles squirreled away there.

    @tunnil: Since you only seem to have 3 posts to your name and a join date of sometime in the past 3 weeks, I suspect your answer about what you get "free of charge" is misguided. If you look into the past 10 - 12 years of discussions on SP, you'll find that there is a lot of "free" knowledge that has been doled out over the years surrounding MVC, Patterns, OOP, PHP, C#, Java, ASP (Classic), SQL, SQL Server, MySQL, Oracle, etc.... All of it free of charge and all aimed at making us better developers and a better community. That's the way I look at it anyway.
    Last edited by Shyflower; Jul 27, 2012 at 04:33. Reason: fixed mention
    Andrew Wasson | www.lunadesign.org
    Principal / Internet Development

  10. #10
    SitePoint Enthusiast
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    44
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Thanks for the response/info Andrew, much appreciated. And you're right in your first paragraph, I did recall when sitepoint was the place to get good technical information. It's a little disappointing with the majority of forum content now being about point & click apps. Not that there's anything wrong with those things to a point, but to dominate a forum as it does is just a little disappointing, hence probably need to look elsewhere for that level of technical feedback.

    The fact that there's so many Joomla threads should have alerted me.

    Cheers.

    PS: If you know of a good, technically advanced Wordpress developers forum, recommendation would be much appreciated.

  11. #11
    SitePoint Wizard bronze trophy
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Location
    Vancouver BC Canada
    Posts
    2,029
    Mentioned
    5 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I'd look into LinkedIn Groups. There are lots of WP groups and some of them look pretty good. I've joined a couple for Drupal development and there's a bit of development tip and code sharing that goes on. Lots of job-spam to wade through when the groups get popular but lots of good info as well.

    As far as SP goes, I'm still hanging in there and I make suggestions regarding the forum architecture every now and then but I don't understand the direction they're taking it at the moment. I miss the PHP App Development section and I think the CMS section should be split into two or more sections to cover configuration and code/development.

    Anyway, we'll see how it pans out.

    Cheers,
    Andrew
    Andrew Wasson | www.lunadesign.org
    Principal / Internet Development

  12. #12
    SitePoint Enthusiast
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    44
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Cool, thanks mate, appreciated.

  13. #13
    SitePoint Zealot bronze trophy
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    116
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    While I totally get where you're coming from with this thread, I've been biting my lip on this one, but I think it bears saying ...

    The next forum you go to, if you want people to help you, then you might consider a different approach to your introduction.

    Not a lot of communities are going to respond well when you ask questions like "This place seems like a bunch of amateurs. Does anyone here even know what the heck they're doing? Or are you all just a bunch of hacks?"

    You might not always get the best response from that.

  14. #14
    SitePoint Enthusiast
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    44
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    If you can suggest another way to ask the question then please do, and I'll take note for next time, I'm not too slow a learner. But I came here to find a resource of a certain type, and if it's not available here then I'd rather find out sooner than later. I had already come to an initial conclusion from browsing the threads, but figured I might get a more informed response if I asked, however blunt it may seem. And I did, thanks to Andrew above, and so no one needs to waste anyone's further time. Seems win-win to me.

    Plus I don't really know why anyone would take offence at "code hacker" anyway. For the most part that's exactly what I am, and would be quite accepting of someone describing me as that. However I am seeking info that's a little above the code hacker level so I myself can take that step up, and hence my question.

    And if someone's really going to take offence from someone's post on a public forum then that's something they need to address, it's just a web forum, not someone in the pub calling their sister a hooker. I'm pretty sure in a few days you'll think nothing more of this thread or me, and I likewise. I'm sure we both have more important things to worry about. So apologies for the bluntness, but it achieved the objective, and no animals were harmed in its writing.

    Take care.
    Dave

  15. #15
    Non-Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Posts
    21
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by deeve007 View Post
    Plus I don't really know why anyone would take offence at "code hacker" anyway. For the most part that's exactly what I am, and would be quite accepting of someone describing me as that.
    Perhaps you could define what you mean by "code hacker".

    When I see "code hacker" that means someone who doesn't know what they are doing and so tries to take short cuts by cobbling together bits and pieces of code from all sorts of places and then scratches their bum wondering why the heck their code doesn't work....go figure .

    Then after giving up trying to fix by themselves what are usually simple and stupid mistakes, they drag their broken code into forums like this one looking for someone to untangle the the code and fix it for free, thinking that forums are just a free debugging service which they are not.

    Is the above definition of a code hacker the same as yours?

  16. #16
    SitePoint Enthusiast
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    44
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by tunnil View Post
    Is the above definition of a code hacker the same as yours?
    No.

  17. #17
    Non-Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Posts
    21
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by deeve007 View Post
    No.
    ok, then until I see yours I'll stick with mine above.

  18. #18
    SitePoint Wizard bronze trophy
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Location
    Vancouver BC Canada
    Posts
    2,029
    Mentioned
    5 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    @CMS Dude ;: I include you in the handful of individuals here who can dig deep and discuss development beyond copying code or downloading themes but regardless of how he's asked the question, he raised a valid point. The quality of development discussions has dropped considerably in the last couple of years. I've been here a while and I've seen it drop and I'm concerned about it too.

    BTW: your suggestion isn't going to help find an answer his question. He's not a newb. This place used to be the exact place where you could go ask highly technical questions of complete strangers and get help finding the answers. No question was "really dumb" or "useless" It helped grow a community because the more people were helped, the more they chipped in helping others. Now, not so much maybe...
    Last edited by Shyflower; Jul 27, 2012 at 04:40.
    Andrew Wasson | www.lunadesign.org
    Principal / Internet Development

  19. #19
    SitePoint Enthusiast
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    44
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Christ, you don't have more important things to worry about?

    (and after just 5 posts??)

  20. #20
    Non-Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Posts
    21
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by deeve007 View Post
    Christ, you don't have more important things to worry about?

    (and after just 5 posts??)
    I suppose it would be reasonable for anyone to ask you the same question, especially since you have only 16 posts

    But in any case, what's the issue here?

    I asked for your definition of a code hacker, which you haven't posted, and I gave you mine so we can compare apples with apples. I don't see how I can be any fairer than that

  21. #21
    SitePoint Enthusiast
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    44
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Well, you may not (it seems), but I have plenty more important things to worry about.

    Adios.

  22. #22
    It's all Geek to me silver trophybronze trophy
    ralph.m's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Melbourne, AU
    Posts
    24,097
    Mentioned
    448 Post(s)
    Tagged
    8 Thread(s)
    There are some brilliant people around here, but part of the problem with a forum is that people's attendance is somewhat random, so on any given day, week or month there's no guarantee of what help/answers you will get.
    Facebook | Google+ | Twitter | Web Design Tips | Free Contact Form

    Forum Usage: Tips on posting code samples, images and more

    Forrest Gump: "IE is like a box of chocolates: you never know what you're gonna get."

  23. #23
    SitePoint Wizard bronze trophy
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Location
    Vancouver BC Canada
    Posts
    2,029
    Mentioned
    5 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by ralph.m View Post
    There are some brilliant people around here, but part of the problem with a forum is that people's attendance is somewhat random, so on any given day, week or month there's no guarantee of what help/answers you will get.
    Ralph, I think there's more to it and that's why I didn't take offense to the bluntness of the thread.

    Back in 2006, when deeve07 joined SP, the quality of discussion was far more technically oriented and I think the forum architecture was better suited to getting into those discussions. Over time that has changed. We used to have an application development subsection under PHP where there were deep discussions about design patterns; not just MVC, but all sorts patterns. I did a little posting in there but more often I lurked and learned and then bought books to learn more. Then CMS became CMS & Wordpress which kind of leaves those of us who work on other systems out in the cold... If this has somehow improved SP's business model or bottom line, well that's great but I do miss the deep coding and development discussions.

    Also, what happened to the "tech times" and other newsletters? Those were great but I don't remember the last time I read one.

    PS: When I think of code hacking, I'm not offended. I remember when being a hacker meant 2600 (http://www.2600.com/) and things like that. Now when I hear hacker or code hacker, I think of Makezine or Hackaday.
    Andrew Wasson | www.lunadesign.org
    Principal / Internet Development

  24. #24
    It's all Geek to me silver trophybronze trophy
    ralph.m's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Melbourne, AU
    Posts
    24,097
    Mentioned
    448 Post(s)
    Tagged
    8 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by awasson View Post
    Back in 2006, when deeve07 joined SP, the quality of discussion was far more technically oriented and I think the forum architecture was better suited to getting into those discussions. Over time that has changed. We used to have an application development subsection under PHP ...
    Yes, all fair points (and I wasn't around then) although the reason for stripping out / merging some forums is that they were basically withering on the vine. So it seems to be an issue of changing times rather than a wish on the part of SitePoint to change things. Before the forums were reordered, the staff did discuss this at length, wondering how—if possible—to turn things back to the way they were. But it seems nothing lasts forever ... and people don't seem to be turning to forums now the way they did some years ago. The forum admins are very open to any ideas people have about the way forward, though.
    Facebook | Google+ | Twitter | Web Design Tips | Free Contact Form

    Forum Usage: Tips on posting code samples, images and more

    Forrest Gump: "IE is like a box of chocolates: you never know what you're gonna get."

  25. #25
    Galactic Overlord gold trophysilver trophybronze trophy
    HAWK's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    New Zealand
    Posts
    12,493
    Mentioned
    943 Post(s)
    Tagged
    14 Thread(s)
    I'm going to jump in here because things are getting a bit heated (and off topic). Thanks for your post @deeve007 ; you certainly make a very relevant point. I'll attempt to address it.

    The bottom line is this: the nature and purpose of forums has changed. They used to be places where people would come to bounce around complicated ideas with their peers. Experts hung out here because there was nowhere else to hang out. That isn't the case any more. There are so many other options for that kind of interaction that people don't waste their time with forums where they are constantly interrupted by newbies (for want of a nicer way of putting it). Forums are now environments for (1) people looking for a quick answer that they can grab and leave and (2) beginners that like the anonymity of asking what they think may be perceived as a 'dumb' question in a theoretically nurturing environment. Those are both valid reasons to be here, but they pose a problem for us in terms of retaining experts. The two groups are incongruous and are looking for different things.

    Quote Originally Posted by awasson View Post
    ...I don't understand the direction they're taking it at the moment. I miss the PHP App Development section and I think the CMS section should be split into two or more sections to cover configuration and code/development. ...If this has somehow improved SP's business model or bottom line, well that's great but I do miss the deep coding and development discussions.
    The decision to cull the forums was mine and it has nothing to do with business or money. My sole responsibility is to look after our community. Unfortunately the sheer number of sub-forums was making it a daunting place for newcomers so we scaled back to help them out - they are our bread and butter these days. I don't believe that the structure of our forums have anything to do with the change. It was happening before that and there is nothing stopping people from creating an advanced thread in one of the forums that we retained - all the old threads still exist, they were just merged. Those subforums had such low traffic that they weren't serving any purpose. Without an audience to take part in the threads, things were lying dormant for days or even weeks at a time. Our traffic is still the same and registration levels haven't changed - it is just our demographic that has.

    I wish it wasn't the case, but it is so we have to move with the times.

    Quote Originally Posted by awasson View Post
    Also, what happened to the "tech times" and other newsletters? Those were great but I don't remember the last time I read one.
    We redesigned the newsletters and split the Tech Times into more specific niches. There is now newsletters for Ruby, Cloud, Mobile development and PHP.

    I hope that answers some of your questions.


Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •