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  1. #1
    e=2.718281828459045235360 HyperBaseball's Avatar
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    Hello all.

    I'm not exactly sure where to put this (forum-wise), but since it has to do with web design, I figured here.

    Along with two friends of mine who specialize in their own field of the Internet, I am starting a company designing web pages and doing overhauls of sites. We will also be offering graphic design as well as interaction programs (forums, polls, guestbooks, etc.). Dave, my graphics man, of http://www.adroit47.com , does some design already, but for him it's basically a one man show.

    My question- what do you guys think are reasonable prices to charge for
    1)new design
    2)complete overhaul
    3)interact utilities
    etc.

    We're not a Mom & Pop shop, but we don't want to charge $750 an hour (which SkilTech charges). Just dropping an idea would be great.

    Thanks!
    Jason Unger is me.
    "Homer no function beer well without"
    http://www.jasonunger.com

  2. #2
    SitePoint Zealot Brian Farkas's Avatar
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    I don't believe that we are allowed to discuss this with you. It was a while ago in the webmaster forums that the issue of "price-fixing" was brought up...

    Basically the conversation was that it was illegal to confer among other people participating in your industry and attempt to set prices. The reasoning behind this was that if many people did this, they could bring costs in the whole industry up. When I first heard about this, I wasn't sure about it either, but here is the thread:

    http://www.webmaster-forums.com/foru...?threadid=5610

    Brian Farkas

    *** EDIT ***
    Just wanted to add something here:
    Though I can't discuss the actual price you should charge with you, it really comes down to what you think your work is worth.

    You need to honestly evaluate the work that you do, and try to come up with a fair price for it. You may browse other design sites and see what they charge for the same services as you, but in the end it really comes down to what _you think_ your services are worth.

    [Edited by Brian Farkas on 09-03-2000 at 03:38 PM]
    Brian Farkas
    InterSurge, LLC :: Seriously Fun Hosting (tm)
    http://www.intersurge.com/

  3. #3
    SitePoint Wizard TWTCommish's Avatar
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    Interesting point - I hadn't thought of that. Personally I think it should be okay as long as nothing like that "breaks out." Overall the price depends on a lot of things. It might make more sense for you to post asking about specifics listing conditions and such.

  4. #4
    SitePoint Wizard jumpthru's Avatar
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    Lol, I have never heard of that and personally think that is rediculous.

  5. #5
    SitePoint Wizard jumpthru's Avatar
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    Okay I just read that dicsussion. That is SO rediculos. IF that guy knows what he is talking about then it is still one of those dubm laws that will never be used and could be counterd with another law. Forget about that dicussion. And now back to the questoin.

    I would say depending on your skills charge a hourly rate like 15 to 25 an hour. You could make it more after each site is done and you get more expeirience. Maybe if you posted some sites you ahve done and we could see your skill and give you a better estimate.

    BTW, I dont think skiltech charges 750 an hour. I read there website and they make it sound like 750 total (charged hourly). But there are some AWASOME webdesign companies (I just cant remember there address right now, dang it) that must charge enourmous amounts. But that is for huge sites with more advanced features I guess.

  6. #6
    SitePoint Zealot Jason_Therrien's Avatar
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    The amount that you wish to charge, as I have found out, greatly depends on the type of customer you are dealing with. Obviously, Fortune 500 companies are more willing to dish out a lot of cash than a small business.

    I would first define what your specialties and capabilities are, then zero in on what kind of companies would want or need those.

    Good Luck

    Jason Therrien

    http://www.SmartWebBusiness.com
    A small business resource for news and questions to your Internet queries.

  7. #7
    SitePoint Zealot Website Rob's Avatar
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    I have no idea why we couldn't talk about pricing? Most of us have Web sites with the information available to the public, so it's not like we're talking out-of-school or anything.

    Up here in Canada prices for graphic work "start" at $200, and go up from there. These are people who have the tools (along with the knowleged & experience to use them) and can do whiz-bang stuff pretty quick. Turn around time is usually 3 days.

    Programming (PHP, CF, Perl, Database, etc.) usually start around $60 hr.

    As for Web pages, you can either charge by the hour or provide templates with a price per page, or per set. Price per hour is (what you figure your time is worth) x (how long it takes to make) + (other costs to make) + markup. A markup of 30% is quite feasable but some people follow the adage of "Whatever the market will bear" and probably lose more than they get.

  8. #8
    Don't get too close, I bite! Nicky's Avatar
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    I think Jason is right, you should charge as much as you think your customer will pay or you could lose a job or underquote for one and lose money!
    if you think they will pay then charge really high, if not charge as mucha s they can afford, they tend to even each other out after a while.

  9. #9
    SitePoint Wizard
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    I'll add my $.02...

    Remember that a Fortune 500 client may not be as good profit-wise as a small- or medium-sized company who recommends you and uses you all the time.

    If you're just starting, make relationships not money (yet).

  10. #10
    Skills to Pay the Bills Sparkie's Avatar
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    I agree 200% with d3v. Every potential customer is a potential advertiser and referrer for your services. Make a great impression on them! Word of Mouth is your strongest ally in the web design business

  11. #11
    SitePoint Addict smcausland's Avatar
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    Here is the take from a list I am on that just went bannanas when someone asked about price fixing.

    "As a professional in this area and having studied the law and having taught
    pricing, including the issue of price fixing, at four different major
    universities, and having served as an expert witness on this issue in seven
    different suits, I can say that discussing the issue of pricing of services
    in this forum would {not} constitute price fixing or price collusion and
    thus, would not be in violation of any laws".

  12. #12
    SitePoint Addict smcausland's Avatar
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    another more detailed post from the same list as above

    ": If by some stretch of the imagination *every* member of this
    list
    : decided to set the same hourly rate it still would not violate
    : anti-trust laws as the mebership of this list is *not* a
    determining
    : factor in the marketplace. The power to fix prices for an
    entire
    : industry is smething we do not have."

  13. #13
    SitePoint Zealot Brian Farkas's Avatar
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    Ok, looks like we don't have to worry about that then. Thanks for the info, I was just pointing out something I saw in another thread.. that cleared everything up.
    Brian Farkas
    InterSurge, LLC :: Seriously Fun Hosting (tm)
    http://www.intersurge.com/

  14. #14
    SitePoint Addict smcausland's Avatar
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    Brian that was in no way meant to be directed particularly at you. I just wanted to share it for info purposes. I don't know the person who made these statements at all, and I don't live in the US so for all I know your anti trust laws could apply to conversations on discussion boards

    also the rather harsh "if by some stretch of the imagination" actually that whole post was not mine but a quote from another list. Perhaps I should have read the whole post more carefully my apologies if I caused any offense.

  15. #15
    SitePoint Zealot Website Rob's Avatar
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    Speaking of clearing things up, I'm wondering if the above information has helped HyperBaseball with the question, or just confused him more?

  16. #16
    SitePoint Guru
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    Ok, I have one. I have to talk to someone tonight about a project they're asking me to do. The rate of pay isn't in question. They're offering an amount per hour and it's fine with me. What I'm wondering about is how, when it's a freelance, side kind of thing, how you keep track of the hours accurately. For this reason, the couple of sites I've done for pay, I just did for a flat rate. But I know that's not how it's usually done and anyway, this is a per hour deal. So, when you do freelance work at home, do you just log your times and charge that way? Do you take a little off for interruptions that are always occurring at home? What if you feel you want to spend a little more time on some part of the project than you absolutely have to? Such as researching or trying out a better way to do something or reworking a design after you have one that would probably be acceptible...Do you just charge for what it should cost and do the extra work gratis? Any guidance would be appreciated.

  17. #17
    SitePoint Addict smcausland's Avatar
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    A really effective solution to the extra/free work would be to do it at no charge but list it that way on your final inovice. I have found nothing makes a customer/client happier than getting something for free...even if you have calculated for the "freebie" in your regular per unit/hour cost.

  18. #18
    SitePoint Guru
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    OK, thanks..that might be a good plan.

  19. #19
    SitePoint Zealot Website Rob's Avatar
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    There is a program called TimeKeeper which although is very basic in it's functions, it will help you keep track of time spent on specific projects, and notes for what you were doing, and it's Free to boot.

    This way when you are finished the project you then have an Overview of how much you spent doing what. Makes it easier to determine if you want to include on your Invoice, the specifics of what they paid for, the cost for each, and what you gave them for Free.

  20. #20
    SitePoint Guru
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    Thanks very much. That could be a very valuable tool! I'm definitely going to download it.

  21. #21
    SitePoint Zealot Website Rob's Avatar
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    Your welcome psalzer. I just found another one on my hard drive that looks even better actually. It's called TimeStamp and is Donationware (give what you feel it's worth) but looks to do alot more the TimeKeeper.


  22. #22
    SitePoint Zealot Brian Farkas's Avatar
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    Thanks for posting all of those time-keeping resources, guys. That really helped, as up until now we had been using excel spreadsheets for that. I'll be sure to try that software out.

    smcausland-
    No offense taken, I may have worded my post incorrectly, but I wanted to thank you for clearing that issue up!
    Brian Farkas
    InterSurge, LLC :: Seriously Fun Hosting (tm)
    http://www.intersurge.com/

  23. #23
    SitePoint Guru
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    I'm downloading Time Stamp now. Looks like I'm going to do the job and so, I'll donate after I get a check from it. Seems fair. Thanks for the great suggestions and links.

  24. #24
    SitePoint Zealot Sesran's Avatar
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    I suggest to the client a set per page rate and also express that each client is different. I also always give them free stuff, I love the look on their face when they get something free. If I am making a bunch of pages that have the same overall template and all I am doing is just changing data, I always tell them that I did 10 pages, but I am only gonna charge them for 7. Makes them happy, doesn't hurt me, and possibly may give me a rep for being a fair person. As stated in an earlier post, "Word of Mouth is our best advertising" I also have a price set on my site, but I almost never go by it, I need to do a redesign anyway, when I have free time.
    Sesran Site Solutions - Web Site Hosting & Design

  25. #25
    SitePoint Zealot dkilburn's Avatar
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    I usually charge $30 per hour for basic web work. That is what I feel my time is worth more than any indication of superior web design skills or anything. I am very busy, and if someone wants me to work on their site, that's what my time costs.

    However, there are a lot of variables. I will sometimes take on a project that requires expanding my skills in a certain area because it is easier to learn something new if you have something real to work on. There are things I want to do with a current project that are taking a lot of time. I don't charge for my learning curve, but what I think it should cost. At this point I have a pretty good feel for how much time things should take (without interuptions, working straight through, etc.) and that's what I usually charge for. The current site "feels" like a $600 or $700 project, but if I charged hourly, it would be twice that.

    I agree with detailing everything on the final invoice. Someone might groan at a $600 bill, but when the invoice shows 20 pages, email setup, etc., it looks much better. Also, if I have to go back and do more work on the site, I have a detailed billing that indicates what has already been done.
    Debby Kilburn
    "With computers, everything is possible, but nothing is easy"
    AIM: fourhweb


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