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  1. #176
    Fluffy Kitten Programmer~ Elledan's Avatar
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    My statement was not totally right. I agree with that, but I wish to say first that I just had survived a migraine attack (yeah, I know: ouch*) and therefore my thoughts were a bit clouded. I'm not really feeling all well at this moment, but I'll try to refine my statement a bit :

    Genetic Engineering: a technology with almost unlimited possibilities. With this powerful tool, we can fight illnesses with far more success than we are used to. We can cure young children from genetic defects which would otherwise cause them to die before they reach maturity.
    The same technic can be used on any living creature, whether it's a plant or an animal.

    It will undoubtly be tricky sometimes, but the result will be worth the effort. Unless we ruin it of course...

    The same dangers than can happen with GE can happen during the 'normal' reproduction process: a few changes/mutations in some genes and there we have a nice little Armageddon.

    'DNA is wonderfull stuff, but once it chances the wrong way, the results will be devastating.
    Remember that, my child, and avoid the mistakes that the nature has made before you and will make after you.'
    www.nyanko.ws - My web-, software- and game development company.
    www.mayaposch.com - My personal site and blog.

  2. #177
    SitePoint Wizard TWTCommish's Avatar
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    I can relate to headaches...no prob - hope you feel better Elledan.

    I see what you're saying - it'll be interesting to see how it unfolds...I personally don't know where the line should be drawn.

  3. #178
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    To me, besides being Biblically wrong in terms of morals, such as abortion etc, cloning is wrong because it is not wise. Real wisdom is knowing the end of a matter from the beginning and currently, cloning technology has no way of knowing where exactly it is headed. Proverbs 14:15 tells us
    "The naive believes everything, but the sensible man considers his steps." It is sensible or prudent to think carefully about the path we are walking, and where it will lead us. This can be applied also to the atomic bomb. Although I don't have anything against nuclear technology, I do have a problem with its use as a weapon...

    What if after the end of World War II, the US had said it was going to destroy all of its atomic bombs, end research on it for military use and also sign international treaties concerning nuclear proliferation? Wouldn't the Cold War arms race been avoided? A whole 50 years of tensions between two countries trying to outdo each other in terms of megatons avoided. Dont we wish we could have put the genie back in the bottle?

    So that's how I feel about cloning. It is a relatively new technology promising wonders, just like nuclear energy, but just like Einstein, Bohr and others couldnt foresee the end results of their discovery, how much more do we think we can keep on going without entering a path which mankind will later regret?

    My only hope in all of this is the Lord's return. Just like in the Biblical account of the Tower of Babel, mankind will come to such a point where God will have to step in. Many verses in the Bible mention that. Mankind, at the pace it is currently developing, will arrive at such a point. Whether it be centuries from now or in the near future, I don't know. All I know is that God will step in, because man does not know his limits.
    Micah Goulart
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  4. #179
    SitePoint Wizard TWTCommish's Avatar
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    I thought the Bible said that most of the Earth will have already become Christian before His return? I could be wrong - that's just what I'd always thought.

  5. #180
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    I havent heard of that view on the end times yet, so I think you may be confusing it with the passage in Revelations where it says that every tribe and tongue will be represented at the Great White Throne. A representative would only need to be one person. Because of that verse, I tend to think that Jesus' return may not come for some time since to the best of my knowledge, not every tribe and tongue has at least one Christian...if so, then He could come at any time. = )

    As for the whole earth being Christian, that would mean that Jesus would take with Him everyone during the Rapture, something which I do not see in the Bible. And also, if everyone was a Christian, who would be left here on earth for the Great Tribulation, which will last 7 years. And there is still the mention of the AntiChrist, the two prophets, etc which are in Revelations.

    Thats why not everyone will be a Christian when God returns. Personally I dont think even 10 % of the worlds population are really born-again believers. = )

    Hope that cleared it up for you. = ) Read I Thessalonians, Matthew 26, and of course, Revelations to get a better idea.
    If you've got more questions, don't hesitate to email me (micahgoulart@yahoo.com) or post here, since I will check back.

    Regards,
    Micah
    Micah Goulart
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  6. #181
    SitePoint Wizard TWTCommish's Avatar
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    I didn't mean all of them...but most...either that or it would be evident that the world was headed in that direction. I could easily be wrong...just wanted to get your take on it. I'll checkout those verses for sure.

    Two prophets? Anti-Christ? Could you elaborate a bit? I'd always thought Hitler was the Anti-Christ...

  7. #182
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    Yeah, I guess I skipped over the "most" of the earth part. = ) Sorry about that. Hope I didn't sound like I was preaching at you or anything. : )

    It's a bit hard to explain the whole endtimes events, and it involves so much that I don't want to sit down and explain all of it in fear of messing up somewhere. So I highly suggest that you pick up a Bible and read through the book of Revelations. The first few chapters are letters to some churches so you can safely skip that if you are only looking for some passages on the end times. The rest of the book is a must-read.

    I can only say that the AntiChrist has yet to be seen on this world. The Bible says that only after the Church has been raptured will he become a prominent figure on the world's political stage. Hitler, Stalin, Nero, and others certainly weren't AntiChrists, mainly because he will only come after the rapture and during the Great Tribulation but also because the AntiChrist will do various things, one of which is unite the world under one organization, rebuild the Temple in Jerusalem and also set up the Sign of the Beast...666...etc.

    This has yet to happen so any of history's evilest peoples are merely shadows of what the AntiChrist will be.

    I highly suggest also reading the "Left Behind" series...at least the first book. If you get a copy of it, read it...it's worth it because it takes all of the Bible's allegorical prophesies and places them in a modern setting, showing how the AntiChrist would be if the Rapture were to happen today...
    Micah Goulart
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  8. #183
    SitePoint Wizard TWTCommish's Avatar
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    Yikes...scary stuff. I'm re-hearing some of this...some of it I havn't heard until now.

    Is this it?

    http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/AS...559350-8297427

    Looks interesting...though Amazon only has #1 and #7...

  9. #184
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    It's very scary, but I rest in the fact that I will be raptured and in heaven when all of this takes place...there is worse things that i didnt mention but are in the book of Revelations...it will be hell on earth...a time period like never seen before or after...the earth will suffer the punishment of the Lord and man, I'm sure glad that I wont be here cuz it will get ugly. It may sound a bit wacky when you hear of the prophesy in Revelations that 1/3 of the world's water will turn into blood, plagues will infest the earth, 60 pound hailstones will rain down from heaven, stars will fall from the sky and so on...but we're talking about God and His wrath here, so I don't doubt it at all. It will get to such a point that people on the earth will try to kill themselves, but "death will not come" and I quote from the Bible.

    It may be labeled "scare tactic", but so what? It's the truth, though brutal it may be. So for those who don't believe in it, fine...dont. Just don't be surprised when it happens...

    TWTCommish, that's the book alright..see if you can buy it or get a copy...it's worth it. The above text was not meant at you. I was just anticipating some other posts. = ) From what I understand, you're a Christian right?
    Micah Goulart
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  10. #185
    SitePoint Wizard TWTCommish's Avatar
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    Am I a Christian? The answer is a very resounding "yes."

    I have doubts as any teenage Christian would...but I feel strong in my faith. I pray constantly, but need to find more time to read the Bible.

    I will say this, however: I'm torn over what will truly happen in the end. I find it difficult to believe that the God I've come to know and am starting to truly love will actually sentence the non-believers to eternal suffering. I always picture it was some kind of last-mercy...an ultimate forgiveness...or, at the very least, annihlation...ending it all there. I could easily be wrong; it just seems "right" to me...

  11. #186
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    God's punishment may seem unfair, brutal and unnecessary, but we must remember that He is a Holy God, who abominates Sin...through Christ, we are redeemed from that sin, so that God no longer sees sin when He looks at us, but He sees Jesus...so if a sinner does not believe in Christ as his personal savior, then God will see the sin in him and send him to eternal punishment hell.

    Romans - "For all have sinned and come short of the Glory of God" - self-explanatory

    II Thessalonians 1:8 - "He will punish those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. They will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the majesty of his power on the day he comes.." - God *will* punish those who do not believe in His Son...

    II Thessalonians 2:4 "He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himselft up in God's temple, proclaiming himself to be God." - referring to the AntiChrist and his claim to power

    Does this help?

    I must be getting to bed...it's 1:30 am here.. = )

    i'll check back up on this tomorrow...have a good night...keep up the faith...and dont forget to read the bible..that's where the truth is...not in some theological book, or some deep-sounding forum post, = ) , but in His Word...use that as the measuring stick for what you hear from others...base everything on it...

    that's my advice... = )

    In Him,
    Micah
    Micah Goulart
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  12. #187
    SitePoint Wizard TWTCommish's Avatar
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    Thanks Micah...I appreciate your time.

  13. #188
    SitePoint Addict Chris Roane's Avatar
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    Man, great explanations micahgoulart. You took the words right out of my mouth.

    Chris Roane

  14. #189
    Fluffy Kitten Programmer~ Elledan's Avatar
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    'Prophecies are what they are. Whether they are in a book or a person mentions them, it are only things that can possibly happen in the future.
    At the end, only then the truth will be unveiled.'


    'Only a fool will put all his faith in a prophecy. People who are strong from mind will keep looking for the truth.'
    www.nyanko.ws - My web-, software- and game development company.
    www.mayaposch.com - My personal site and blog.

  15. #190
    SitePoint Wizard TWTCommish's Avatar
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    I don't put all my faith in a prophecy...I have many reasons to believe what I believe - shall I go into them?

  16. #191
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    Prophecy - Prediction - Fulfillment
    Genesis 3:15 - Would be Human - Matthew 1:1
    Genesis 22:18 - Would be Jewish - Matthew 1:1
    Genesis 26:4 - Would be from Isaac - Matthew 1:2
    Genesis 28:14 - Would be from Jacob - Luke 3:34
    Genesis 49:10 - Would be from Judah - Luke 3:33
    Isaiah 9:7 - Would be from David - Matthew 1:1,6
    Micah 5:2 - Birthplace - Luke 2:1-7
    Malachi 3:1 - Forerunner, John the Baptist - Mark 1:1-8
    Isaiah 61:1-2 - Teaching and Healing Ministry - Matthew 9:35
    Isaiah 50:6 - Spit Upon - Mark 14:65
    Isaiah 50:6 - Scourged - John 19:1
    Psalm 22:16 - Hands and Feet Pierced - Mark 15:24-25
    Isaiah 53:12 - Crucified with Criminals - Luke 23:33
    Psalms 22:6-8 - Ridiculed - Matthew 27:39-44
    Psalm 22:18 - Gambling for Garment - Mark 15:24
    Psalm 69:21 - Given Sour Wine - Matthew 27:48
    Psalm 34:20 - Bones Not Broken - John 19:33
    Zechariah 12:10 - Side Pierced - John 19:34


    The above are only prophesies and their fulfillments about JESUS CHRIST, and only a few at that. The Bible contains in itself more than 1000 prophesies, the majority of which has been fulfilled, such as the prophesy of the destruction of Jerusalem to the day, Israel's captivity in Babylon, the 400 years Israel spent in Egypt, the creation of the nation of Israel in May 14th, 1948 *to the day*, the rise and fall of the Egyptian, Persian, Greek, and Roman empire and so on goes the list. If you want the exact verses, I can post them up here but it will take a few days to gather all my verses on it.

    Only a fool would put all his faith in himself and his ability to find the truth. I place my faith in Jesus, because He is my truth.

    [Edited by micahgoulart on 09-04-2000 at 09:09 AM]
    Micah Goulart
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  17. #192
    SitePoint Wizard TWTCommish's Avatar
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    Well, this post marks reply #192 - any chance of it getting to 200, or is it dead?

  18. #193
    Fluffy Kitten Programmer~ Elledan's Avatar
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    Originally posted by micahgoulart

    Only a fool would put all his faith in himself and his ability to find the truth. I place my faith in Jesus, because He is my truth.
    Fine.

    I do NOT believe in (a) god, I do NOT believe in miracles, I DO believe that there are alien lifeforms, I do NOT believe that some god created the whole Universe, I do NOT trust the bible, I DO believe in Evolution, I DISAGREE with most Christians, I can NOT be convinced of the existance of a supernatural being unless one proves its existance, I do NOT believe the stories in the bible about Eden, Jesus, Noach and all others.

    I DO believe in Science and in the things that it offers us.
    www.nyanko.ws - My web-, software- and game development company.
    www.mayaposch.com - My personal site and blog.

  19. #194
    SitePoint Wizard TWTCommish's Avatar
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    What you say implies that one must believe in God OR science. Fact of the matter is that there ARE Christian scientists and there is no contradiction in that...

  20. #195
    Fluffy Kitten Programmer~ Elledan's Avatar
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    I was not implying anything. I was simply explaining were I do and don't believe in.

    For me it is true that Religion and Science can't go together, but I didn't mean that this counts for anyone else.

    I'm sorry if I caused any confusion.
    www.nyanko.ws - My web-, software- and game development company.
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  21. #196
    SitePoint Wizard TWTCommish's Avatar
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    Well, intentional or not, I do think it was implied. I'm not offended, just seemed that way to me. Parts of science don't mix with Christianity, but thats inevitable, since scientists are bound to discover things which others don't agree with...this can be said for any religion.

  22. #197
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    Thread Closed - Before and After.
    www.Gods101.co.uk - Affordable Quality.
    www.scepticism-inc.com - All extremists should be taken out and shot!

  23. #198
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    I do NOT believe in (a) god, I do NOT believe in miracles, I DO believe that there are alien lifeforms, I do NOT believe that some god created the whole Universe, I do NOT trust the bible, I DO believe in Evolution, I DISAGREE with most Christians, I can NOT be convinced of the existance of a supernatural being unless one proves its existance, I do NOT believe the stories in the bible about Eden, Jesus, Noach and all others.

    I DO believe in Science and in the things that it offers us. [/B][/QUOTE]
    See Quote above^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

    Not to preach at anyone, but:

    1. Science has proved that the Christian belief is right and has put the theory of Evolution on some very shaky rocks.

    2. You might want to note that Science has found proof of Christ, but no one has ever been able to prove that there are alien lifeforms.

    3. Basicly everything that your talking about agreeing with, (science and the reasearch method) has proved that you are wrong. Wood from Noah's ark has been found and there is a 98% belief that that is the source. Geography and land cords combined with math can prove that what the bible says about the location of the garden of Eden is true.

    What am I saying here?
    Well I'm a christian and proud of it. I don't think it is unfair to question the bible though. (If you don't believe something, then find out if there is a way to prove it's true.) I just proved that the bible is true in all the areas that you reffered to.

    What do you think about this?
    Isaac
    [www.disegno.com]www.disegno.com[/url] -Coming Soon
    isaccofedele@yahoo.com

  24. #199
    SitePoint Wizard TWTCommish's Avatar
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    The thing that interests me is the Shroud of Turin...very interesting.

  25. #200
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    What do you find intresting about it?
    What would you like to know?
    Isaac
    [www.disegno.com]www.disegno.com[/url] -Coming Soon
    isaccofedele@yahoo.com


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