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  1. #1
    SitePoint Addict Chris Roane's Avatar
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    Hi,

    I have always heard that Celerons aren't very good at all and that they are cheaply made chips.

    I also noticed that they are a lot cheaper then most of the other types of chips out there.

    Is Celeron worth buying, just to save a few hundred dollars? Or do they tend to cause a lot of problems and aren't worth buying?

    I would appreciate any comments you might have on this.

    Thanks!

    Chris Roane

  2. #2
    SitePoint Zealot
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    Just as an aside, I'd like to mention that AMD has a "value" chip called the Duron which is designed to compete head to head with the Celeron and looks to be quite powerful.

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    the major difference between Pentium and Celerons is the L2 cache size and speed, other than that almost everything is the same.

    I currently own 15 computers running on:
    celeron II 566
    coppermine motherboard
    riva tnt m64 32mb

    5 of them are overclocked to 613(did not work well on 750 ;-( )

    all of those computers are used mainly for games (12 hours a day)

    Quake 3 and Unreal Tournament both run great as well as all other games.

    so my recomendation is to get a celeron and the money you save use for a good motherboard and a great video card

  4. #4
    SitePoint Wizard
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    I heard that part of a normal PIII was disabled and they called it a "Celeron". Probably more to it than that though.

    I've seen good performance on a Celeron, but they are basically the same thing as a PIII but cheaper.

    AMD makes the best chips by far.

  5. #5
    Your Lord and Master, Foamy gold trophy Hierophant's Avatar
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    The original Celeron's didn't have an L2 cache and that slowed them down. Celeron's also are sold in a Socket 370 configuration instead of a Slot configuration.

    This means that newer Celeron's can only access the L2 cache at 50% processor speed while PIII's can access it at 100% processor speed. For most purposes you won't notice the slight decrease in speed.

    In the future both AMD and Intel will sell their processors in a socket configuration again instead of the slot configuration. The bonuses from have the processor on a daughter card are almost null as speeds start to approach 1.5 gigaheartz.

    p.s. AMD may sell the best processors around but Intel currently sells the only 1+ gigahertz processors that you can utilize Symmetrical Multi-Processing under x86 software which includes both Linux and Windows.
    Wayne Luke
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  6. #6
    Hi there! Owen's Avatar
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    I just want to say that I use a Celeron at work (400 MHz) and it is painfully slow under Linux. My AMD K6-3 400 MHz runs linux MUCH faster. My boss ran some scientific tasks on the Celeron and it took 6 minutes vs 3 minutes for P-III 500.

    A 700 MHz Celeron is pretty close to a 500 MHz Athlon or a 600 MHz PIII.
    Use this for a comparison: http://www.anandtech.com/showdoc.html?i=1264&p=7
    For games the difference is dramatic: http://www.anandtech.com/showdoc.html?i=1264&p=8

    Get an AMD if you are looking a bargain, and get a PIII if you are looking for speed.

    Owen

  7. #7
    Fluffy Kitten Programmer~ Elledan's Avatar
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    I don't say you must follow my example, but my next PC will have an AMD Duron processor...

    Currently I've a Celeron 400 in my PC, and I'm not really happy with it

    Some programs (games) work painfully slow when compared to when they're being run on a Pentium/Athlon system.

    News Flash: The Pentium 1.13 GHz procs have been recalled, 'cause when it reach a certain temperature it almost stops working and it causes the whole system to crash. This is a good chance for AMD to make its new 1.1 GHz proc populair.

    PS: you can overclock an AMD proc much better than a Pentium one

    www.nyanko.ws - My web-, software- and game development company.
    www.mayaposch.com - My personal site and blog.

  8. #8
    Your Lord and Master, Foamy gold trophy Hierophant's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Elledan
    I don't say you must follow my example, but my next PC will have an AMD Duron processor...

    Currently I've a Celeron 400 in my PC, and I'm not really happy with it

    Some programs (games) work painfully slow when compared to when they're being run on a Pentium/Athlon system.

    News Flash: The Pentium 1.13 GHz procs have been recalled, 'cause when it reach a certain temperature it almost stops working and it causes the whole system to crash. This is a good chance for AMD to make its new 1.1 GHz proc populair.

    PS: you can overclock an AMD proc much better than a Pentium one

    Its too bad that SMP still isn't supported on AMD's chips. Hopefully they'll finally get it right with Thunderbird but that requires all new motherboards since it will be more widely available in a socket configuration instead of a slot.

    p.s. I don't care about overclocking. I would much rather buy more power than risk destroying the whole machine.
    Wayne Luke
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  9. #9
    Fluffy Kitten Programmer~ Elledan's Avatar
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    About your p.s. , Wayne: since AMD procs are MUCH cheaper than Intel procs, the price per MHz is lower, so power is cheaper. That's another reason to buy an AMD proc
    www.nyanko.ws - My web-, software- and game development company.
    www.mayaposch.com - My personal site and blog.

  10. #10
    Your Lord and Master, Foamy gold trophy Hierophant's Avatar
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    Let me put it this way..

    AMD can not gaurantee their long term growth. They bet the company on the Athlon and while it was popular, and has brought the company further from the brink of financial ruin, one little misstep could send them spiraling down again. If the Processor recalled had been AMD's that could have been the misstep that destroyed the company. That is a lot to bet on. If they continue to do things right and prosper then they will be able to guarantee this in the future and make their products more viable to the industry.

    Intel is the only processor I am looking at right now because Intel has the only processors that supports SMP on the x86 architecture. I don't need to look at 1+ gigahertz processors because if I can use 2,3 or 4 cheaper 500, 600 or 700 megahertz processors I can still get the power I want. With Intel Processors I can buy a multi-proc motherboard ($300-$400) and add processors ($200-$300 each)as I need more power. This also means the machine will be more stable since I can balance the load through NT or Linux through the multiple processors allowing them to run cooler than a single processor at comparable speeds would be able to do. If one processor were to die (I have never had a processor die on me yet), I could remove it and still be able to use the PC until it could be replaced.

    The motherboards to support this on the AMD side aren't even available yet and I would have to wait until they released their 760 chipset.

    AMD chips may be less expensive on average, but in my comparison's the motherboards required to run them are more expensive and at higher speeds the prices level out. Besides with the problems VIA has been having with their ATHLON bridge (KX133) requires you to wait until the next release (KT133) if you want to build a serious Athlon computer because they make the only motherboards worth having if your using an Athlon CPU (in my opinion). Also in gaming tests the new mighty enhanced Athlon 1.1 GHz was beaten by the 1 GHz P-III (pg. 57 Maximum PC, Sept 2000) but it did better in tests that could utilize the L2 cache. So I guess it comes down to an individual's needs.

    I know it all comes down to personal choice and even though the AMD processors are good processors, they just don't give me 100% of what I am looking for in a chip these days.. It is good that they released the Duron instead of making people reliant on the venerable K6-3 and K6-2 processors for bargain chips, I think this is a step in the right direction for the financially troubled company.
    Wayne Luke
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  11. #11
    SitePoint Evangelist
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    I may switch to AMD because they are so much cheaper... just have to find a reasonably priced (probably have to settle for one from the computer fair again) motherboard. I may wait a while though because a fast tbird may not be much faster than my current pc...


  12. #12
    Hi there! Owen's Avatar
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    I think SMP is a moot point. Until recently I was using a Pentium 200 MMX. It had no USB, 33 speed IDE bus, and old style (88 pin?) RAM. It supported 2 CPUs. Are you saying that getting another Pentium 200 is a viable option? It's not. And the same thing is true with what you're saying. by the time most people want to upgrade new technology (USB 2, AGP 8x, fireware, etc) will have incresed to the point where doubling up isn't smart. Intel claims they will be realeasing 2 gigahertz before the end of next year (or was it AMD?) 2 700 MHz processors ain't going to cut it.

    Dual processor motherboards are also significantly more expensive than single motherboards (double from your numbers). With all factors compared, buying a new motherboard and CPU every year (or 2) is a better deal than saving up to get a dual. If the prices stay constant (one processor:$200 single processor mboard: $150) and for dual (dual processor mboard: $300 two CPUs: $200x2, though eventrally it will cost less just like a 200 MHz Pentium costs very little now) then wait and get the newest technology when it comes out instead of hanging onto your old antiquated technology.

    I like intels better too, but 3 months ago I bought a $100 400 MHz AMD that was equilivent (according to Norton Utils) to a 500 MHz PIII costing then around $250.

    The final straw for me is the long time Intel stonghold, Anandtech.com, stopped recommending Intel processors as being a viable option for budget (less than $2000) computers.

    Just my 2cents.
    Owen

  13. #13
    SitePoint Evangelist
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    I bought my xeons in 1997, from a computer fair, they have been going fine since... I have made other changes to my system like adding UltraDMA66 along side SCSI, new video card (not AGP, yet) and I overclocked my processors to 400mhz... speed wise, it can still compete with the faster home user computers available today...

  14. #14
    Hi there! Owen's Avatar
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    I was thinking more of processors and hardware within the budget of the average user. Most people can't afford a Xeon. If you can, then I guess you're fine. Same thing if you can afford a 4x multiprocessor board - they're very expensive (probably more than 4 one processor) but should last awhile.

    Owen

  15. #15
    SitePoint Evangelist
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    It took me ages to save for xeons... I did a newspaper round and worked at the farm my dad managed... please dont think it was easy. But, I think they have been a worth while investment.

  16. #16
    Hi there! Owen's Avatar
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    this here graphic explains what I've been saying: http://www.anandtech.com/showdoc.html?i=483&p=6

    It basically says that 2 PIII 350s are roughly equivient to (or slightly slower than) one 1 PIII 450.

    "Who would've thought that a multiprocessor system would be considered a "poor-man's upgrade?" In lieu of the price
    drops on Intel's now discontinued older Pentium II processors, the performance adding a second processor to an older
    system would offer over buying a faster single CPU (possibly with a new motherboard) depends entirely on the nature of
    the applications you'll be running on your system. While the improvement in business applications won't be too
    wonderfully noticeable, graphics artists and development professionals will generally find that multiprocessor systems will
    end up giving them the most bang for their buck, especially in extending the life of their current systems. The
    performance improvement AnandTech's tests illustrated under CAD Drafting applications indicates that a single, more
    powerful CPU is more desirable than two slower processors, however the ideal solution in any of these cases would be
    an upgrade to a multiprocessor system using the fastest processors available at the time...but then again, the ideal
    solution isn't always the most practical. "

    Anyway, things are changing with more multiprocessor compliant software coming out, but for now...

    Go back a few pages in the article and you'll see no difference between one and two processors with 64 megs. Lots of difference with 128 megs, and diminishing difference with 512 megs. The moral? Buy more RAM.

    Owen

  17. #17
    Hi there! Owen's Avatar
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    http://www.anandtech.com/showdoc.html?i=483&p=3

    ooooh. see this page. I didn't find it until after I wrote my response, but it basically says the same thing as what I said above about upgrading.

    Owen

    [Edited by Owen on 08-30-2000 at 09:10 PM]

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    SitePoint Evangelist
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    Thanks, I'll bear that in mind... but I did get a 100Mhz bus (it was late 1997). I may just get a single Athlon tbird next though, when they drop in price .. because I will have to upgrade my whole computer... I've still got a 15" monitor!


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