The Best WYSIWYG Editor !!

[TWTCommish]

Originally posted by jumpthru
You guys keep saying that the DreamWeaver supporters have never used FrontPage but have the FrontPage supporters ever used Dreamweaver?

Yup, I have. Not highly extensively...however I don't go around bashing DW...I just praise FP, since I know about it.

[goober]

Like I have said time and time again, dreamweaver AND FrontPage BOTH pale in comparison to Visual InterDev 6. It has the best features of both, it won't mess up your code, navigation and themes are a sinch, it has full support for scripting. It is the most beautiful editor EVER. The only problem is it costs a lot. I've used it for over a year now and it doesn't cease to amaze me. I will never leave it. And, it's made by Microsoft. Hope this helped, and for god's sake, stop arguin' over DW and FP, because they BOTH stink compared to this.

[TWTCommish]

Pretty bold statement - where can I find this program anyway?

[WebMasterAJ]

I use FPY2K all the time. I have used pratically every program in its trial version, and I so far like FP. I like it has a nice interface, and its easy to deal with... especially with tables. I don't use any of FrontPages "shared borders" or their hideous themes, but I do like their extensions and components. I also like FP's Reports... which tell you if there are broken links, or if the page is taking too long to load. The only thing I found that made me mad with FP was when I tried to make pages with the ".shtml" extension. If you do that, and then use then try and use THEIR forms processing, it does not work. So, I made my own form processing CGI, but with some things, I just had to use FPs "Include Page" component.

[SniperUK]

I started with FP2k its a great editor! Not the best though!
I like DW more even though I'm not use to it that much! The only thing I dont like about the DW is that the interface some times comes in the way of what I am doing which can be anoying at times other than that its much better than FP2k!
People starting out should use FP2k to get the feel of how HTML works etc the move to DW as I did and still learning!

[Justin S]

Alright, time for me to jump in here...

I used FrontPage 2000 for over two weeks, testing it out alongside of DreamWeaver. My results were very clear: DreamWeaver, in my opinion, kicked FrontPages butt. Better features, better design, and it's a true WYSIWYG editor, unlike FrontPage which show's stuff unlike it would be displayed in a browser.

The choice is simple. But I must say I love EditPlus (like notepad) much better then both of those. WYSIWYG editors are for people who don't know HTML You gotta love hardcore HTML editors like EditPlus...

[jumpthru]

Everything eveyrone is saying that is better about FP can be doen in DW if you know how to use the program correctly.

I still dont see a single advantage for using FP over DW.

[TWTCommish]

Here's one jumpthru: easier to learn, familiar interface, and integration with MS Office. I've used both...DW is great if you want to learn it and put a lot of time into mastering it, but FrontPage allows for me to throw things together quickly and well...bottom line.

[jumpthru]

OK so your needs might be different then mine. And the one reason I wanted FP was its intergration with Office (but I realised that whats the point of that? Word for HTML? BLAH). But DW intergrates perfectly with Fireworks and Flash which makes it a quick process for ME.

[TWTCommish]

Yup - all depends on who you are.

[Elledan]

I don't have Office installed, so integrating with Office would be kinda hard

[psalzer]

Is it safe to post here now? I've always said that initially Dreamweaver's interface isn't as intuitive as FP's especially if you're used to word processors and the like, but once you get the hang of it, it's not harder to work with at all. Support for SSI is probably reason enough to prefer it if that's important to you. I just know it was after finding Dreamweaver I stopped looking at other programs. It just seemed like a good fit to me. FP extensions for site management aren't everyone's cup of tea. I've used them and just didn't like the feel of it, but that's me and I can see where other might feel differently about them.
I take mild and unexcited exception to the proposition that WYSIWYG editors are exclusively for those who don't know HTML. I know HTML and use it directly on every page I do, just about. But, writing code, and writing it perfectly without typos and such is not my best thing. One thing I love about Dreamweaver is that it'll tell me where I left a tag unclosed and other little things like that and I don't have to look through it all myself to find a small error. You can also set it to tell you those things, but not interfere with the code.

[TWTCommish]

Just for the record: FrontPage, like EVERY MS Office program, can be customized fairly easily...most people don't realize this, but most programs can be customized.

[jollyfactory]

LOOK WHAT YOU STARTED!!!
I have used it all, Frontpage, Dreamweaver, Cofeecup, Macromedia, but I have to say that the best one is Netscape composer. It has all the features you need without the fancy stuff that is only supported by certain browsers. Well thats my two cents

[jumpthru]

I have used composer and dont like it -- it reminded me of Frontpage and I felt limited...

[jumpthru]

Originally posted by TWTCommish
Just for the record: FrontPage, like EVERY MS Office program, can be customized fairly easily...most people don't realize this, but most programs can be customized.

Besides the normal preferences and chaging the program like that, DW can be COMPLETELY changed using javascript and some other funky programming launguage (I forget what they called it). In fact you can actually screw up the program if you dont know what you are doing because it can be so powerfully changed. You can change the menus the interface, everything. I guess I like DW more because it feels SO much more powerful. They have thought of everything.

Also FP extensions is rediculous. Its just another non standard technology, that takes up space on your server. FTP is standard, no reason to change it by putting FP extensions. Why cant FP just upload your content normally. It bugs me that Microsoft is trying to change the standards. For examply, you cant use Web Folders (which is very useful considering its free -- yes there are other programs that do the same but aren't free) without having FP extensions on your server.

[Illuware]

Ok. I see this thread needs a permanent answer. So here it goes:

I've tried about everything, and have come to the conclusion that Adobe's Golive 5 is the best editor out there. I think that IF there's to be a editor war, it should NOT include Frontpage. It's sooo ******! I think the ones that come into view are Notepad (or similar like Editor 99, Editpad etc.), Homesite 4.5, GoLive 5, Visual Interdev, Dreamweaver & DreamWeaver Ultradev.

I personnally use Visual Interdev for my ASP & PHP, GoLive for the HTML in WYSIWYG, Homesite for HTML code and Notepad for minor adjustments.

[Tan Jian Xiong]

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[psalzer]

There is no permanent answer. But GoLive is one I haven't looked at at all. What do you like about it?

[Illuware]

Well, see http://www.adobe.com/products/golive for a full description, but here are the main points:

1) It's layout grid it great. If you place one on the page, you get a grid, on which you can place anything from tables to images, and even another grid. The grid size is ajustable. Golive automatically renders the needed tables to make sure that they turn out exactly the way the grid looked.

2) It has a timeline editor at least just as powerfull as the one in Dreamweaver, if not more powerfull.

3) Complete integration with Adobe Photoshop and Imageready. Also supports the use of Photoshop .psd files as images. It then uses the same Save for web thing that Photoshop has to convert the images to .gif, .jpg or .png. Automatically redoes the operation if the original .psd file is altered.

4) Full support for Flash files.

5) The same award winning interface that Photoshop and Imageready use. This is a really convienent one. Much better then the toolbars with DW.

6) 360Code. Leaves your code alone.

7) Actions. Write your own Javascript snippets and configure them when you deploy them on your pages using the same palettes as the pre-made ones.

8) Can even edit Quicktime movies!!!!!!!! I personally have yet to use it, but it's there.

Again, see above adress for more info...

[jumpthru]

GoLive is basically a copy of dreamweaver. It has the excact same funcionallity as dreamweaver, just by a different company. And to prove I am open minded and not set on Dreamweaver, I would say that I put GoLive at about the same level as Dreamweaver, which are both about frontpage . The ONLY difference I would see when picking from GoLive or Dreamweaver, would be which one is more convientent in terms of intergration with either photoshop and imageready or fireworks and flash. Macromedia and then Adobe are my two favorite companies. I think they both make great products but I love Dreamweaver -- But GoLive is still a product that I would consider using if I had to, as it is about excaclty the same as Dreamweaver. Thank you.

[TWTCommish]

Originally posted by jumpthru
Also FP extensions is rediculous. Its just another non standard technology, that takes up space on your server. FTP is standard, no reason to change it by putting FP extensions. Why cant FP just upload your content normally. It bugs me that Microsoft is trying to change the standards.

I don't think they are - I think they're offering an easy solution for people who are new to this whole "thing." If people don't like it they'll reject it...they'll make their own decision, as always.

I personally support FrontPage, but not its Themes, Extensions, or other such injustices against development.

[jumpthru]

I think it complicates things for newbies cause they have to worry about whether there server has them and if it doesn't work they have to figure out why not. Plus you just admitted that FP is better for newbies. Experts wouldn't want a program with bloated stuff such as extensions and themes.

[TWTCommish]

Wrong bud - I admitted that FP has a feature useful for newbies. That in no way implies that it is not useful for more experienced develop. I think the learning curve is much lower, and that FP allows you to create most sites faster.

Its not complicated to email support and ask them if they support extensions...most sites have it right up there anyway. That's like saying it's a pain to use PHP and SQL on your site because you have to check to make sure your host supports it - its just not a big deal!

[Hierophant]

The portion of Frontpage extensions that allows users to upload files to their server only allows the users to use FTP if the host does not allow you to have an FTP account to begin with. It is a good feature and only one small part of the extensions. The others allow message forums, guestbooks, form processing without worry about scripts or permission errors.

Let's face it, command line operations are above the heads of 80% of the general population. They don't want to learn how to chmod or memorize IP addresses just to upload their files. They want drag and drop, point and click publishing and easy to use features. If you don't want these features then you don't have to use them, others do want them and they do use them.

I can't think of any host off the top of my head that doesn't have frontpage extensions installed except for some of the freehosts.