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  1. #1
    SitePoint Wizard Another Designer's Avatar
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    How would you feel?

    Say you created a large website for a friend for free. A lot of work went into it. Then suddenly, several years later your friend wants updates. Only this time we wants another graphic artist to put their creative input into it. How would you feel? Would you feel insulted? Would you feel that it was no problem?
    I am battling my feelings. I was never asked to help with this person's projects. Why all of a sudden in this person being brought into working on what I designed? I feel I should be gracious and work with this person. Yet, I can't help but be bothered by it.

  2. #2
    It's all Geek to me silver trophybronze trophy
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    Personally, I would encourage him to get this other person to design the site. I would even ask if he has another friend who can do the coding parts. Variety is the spice of life.

  3. #3
    SitePoint Wizard Another Designer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ralph.m View Post
    Personally, I would encourage him to get this other person to design the site. I would even ask if he has another friend who can do the coding parts. Variety is the spice of life.
    So are you saying you would feel insulted? I feel like giving this other person the files.

  4. #4
    It's all Geek to me silver trophybronze trophy
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    Quote Originally Posted by Another Designer View Post
    So are you saying you would feel insulted? I feel like giving this other person the files.
    I'm saying (rather cheekily) that I would encourage anyone who wants free work to find someone else. In the early days I might have been upset, but these days I'd just be relieved.

  5. #5
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    I'd feel stupid I didn't charge him nothing the first time. Maybe now it's time to fix that?

  6. #6
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    I think we all have crossed this bridge (and for those of us who "never learn", there is a path worn over the bridge) and eventually come to the same conclusions:
    If you are actually in business, you cannot afford to work for nothing
    If a real friend asks for your help, he/she should offer to compensate you. It may not be money, maybe a nice dinner out {because}
    Anyone who expects to get something for nothing at all is fooling himself

    On the flip side, do not forget that you created the site for him of your free will. Think of it as a gift (that is actually what it was). So it is rude and insulting for you to expect something from it; especially years later. I am certain that, in those intervening years, your skills and experience have grown. Your time and talent has more value than it did then.
    If you need to console yourself look at it this way: Your current level of expertise came through work and practice. This friend's site was one of those "bricks in the road" to get you to this point.

    One last thing that I use to console myself is this: "You get what you pay for"
    He paid NOTHING and is expecting (again) to PAY NOTHING to someone else. He will certainly get his money's worth.
    Don't be yourself. Be someone a little nicer. -Mignon McLaughlin, journalist and author (1913-1983)


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  7. #7
    SitePoint Enthusiast
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    Do not mix friendship & work, you could end up losing one of the two which you wouldn't want.
    To answer your question, I'd be ok with it.

  8. #8
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    Personally i would hand over the site and would avoid being involved in it any further. If the friend doesent think i can do it then by all means he should find someone else but he shouldnt expect me to stay and work on it too.

  9. #9
    SitePoint Wizard Another Designer's Avatar
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    Great feedback. Thanks! It wasn't done totally for free. It was a barter agreement. I don't want to work on it anymore. I put so much work on it. On the other hand, I want to be gracious. Maybe I can work on it this last time and hand over the files to the other designer. But if the other designer is going to take over and re-design the site then I will have no other choice but to tell them I am insulted, hand the files over and walk out.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Another Designer View Post
    But if the other designer is going to take over and re-design the site then I will have no other choice but to tell them I am insulted, hand the files over and walk out.
    here, let me fix that sentence for you...

    But if the other designer is going to take over and re-design the site then I will have no other choice but to wish them well, hand the files over and walk out.

    see the difference?
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  11. #11
    Foozle Reducer ServerStorm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Another Designer View Post
    Great feedback. Thanks! It wasn't done totally for free. It was a barter agreement. I don't want to work on it anymore. I put so much work on it. On the other hand, I want to be gracious. Maybe I can work on it this last time and hand over the files to the other designer. But if the other designer is going to take over and re-design the site then I will have no other choice but to tell them I am insulted, hand the files over and walk out.
    I agree with ParkinT and r937, you did this work originally for barter. Did you receive a fair barter? Even if the answer is no, it is no longer the time to make it fair 'that ship has sailed'. You should graciously say, we did our barter and our work for each other was fulfilled on the first iteration of the site. I will pass on the files to your other designer. The code speaks for itself so they should not have a tough time getting along. I truly hope that this goes well for you and like r937 said walk out. Doing more work is not just gracious, it sounds like it is your friend 'taking advantage of you', but you can certainly be gracious when exiting the project.

    Steve
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  12. #12
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    Always difficult, mixing family/friends and business. I always try to separate them as best as I can. In the beginning it was fun to work on as many sites as I could, so obviously a website for a friend or family member (even for free) was part of that. But that was the "hobby" period. As soon as it became business, it changes (it should!).

    So nowadays
    - I don't work for free in my business
    - In case a family member or friend wants my help, the whole process is done exactly like it will be done for any other business (including contracts, normal rates, etc)
    - Only really sporadic, for the best of the best of my friends or my closest family would I do something for free. Say my wife needs a website, of course I would not send her an invoice. But when I would do such work for free, I would very, very clearly explain that this act of friendship is just that, an act of friendship which I do in my free time, with no other obligations for both parties. And another thing to consider here is what the website is about exactly. If a close friend would ask me to build a blog for his/her wedding, I'd be happy to help him (even for free). But if he would ask me to build a website for his business (something he makes money with), it's in everybody's interest that I charge normally for that website.

    As to your question "how would you feel". I would be happy for the friend if he found someone (else) to help him with his website. Once you have build many websites, in a few years time some of them will be redesigned/rebuild by others (hopefully not all of them ... ) that's just part of the medium.

  13. #13
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    I would feel insulted of course... all this time you work for his site for free and then he hired someone to fix or redesign it.

  14. #14
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    Certainly i would feel bad. i seems like he is very close to you but always try to keep personal life away form professional life. your friend must be thinking form his business point of you. so just be professional and let him do what he thinks good for his business.

  15. #15
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    I am not going to blame him only because informations you have given are not enough to judge him. just an advise whatever you you decide bear in mind that together you are more likely to succeed in your business!
    <snip/>
    Last edited by Mittineague; Apr 30, 2012 at 16:10.

  16. #16
    SitePoint Member michaeljcalkins's Avatar
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    I always say the more input you get the better, but the site isn't really for you it's for your friend and understandably he'd want many opinions.

  17. #17
    Barefoot on the Moon! silver trophy Force Flow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gentryliving View Post
    I would feel insulted of course... all this time you work for his site for free and then he hired someone to fix or redesign it.
    Quote Originally Posted by cristinsmith45 View Post
    Certainly i would feel bad. i seems like he is very close to you but always try to keep personal life away form professional life. your friend must be thinking form his business point of you. so just be professional and let him do what he thinks good for his business.
    Keep in mind that it has been several *years* since the original site was designed. It's commonplace for sites to go through redesigns every few years and technology evolves and tastes change. The only thing that has stayed constant in the world wide web is craigslist (which still has the same design from the 90s), but as of last week, even they are looking to hire a designer to finally update things.

    You should not be insulted one bit. It's the natural progression of things on the web.
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