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  1. #1
    SitePoint Wizard silver trophybronze trophy mizwizzy's Avatar
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    Cool Code: Beauty and the Beast!

    I've been reading a few random articles recently on good coding practices and techniques and it makes me wonder what other people do in terms of presentation, structure, methods etc, as I've not really seen any "definitive standard" so far. What's your style or maybe you don't have any? Are you a "rough and ready" coder? Or maybe you use a code beautifier to help you?

    I know I'm a neat freak when it comes to my css, so I gotta have everything indented or at least structured neatly first and foremost, then apply some comments (so I know what's coming - logic kicking in) and when I think of it, try to alphabetize my properties, though I must admit, I sometimes only do this when I'm finished with the code and not there and then!

    Do you think people judge you on your code presentation, say in terms of professionalism and quality of work? I can understand why some people might do this but once it works, adheres to standards, shouldn't it be ok? Or perhaps... why should you have to compromise, if a job is worth doing, it should be done correctly.

    Interested to hear your stance on this topic and what approach you apply to your own code!

  2. #2
    Mouse catcher silver trophy Stevie D's Avatar
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    I'm a presentation perfectionist. My code is always neat and tidy – because it's all hand-coded, it makes a huge difference doing it that way because then it is much, much easier to debug. It's easy to make it look near because it's lean and mean, with no cruft or unnecessary filler. I don't go a big deal on indenting, because when you have long lines of text or multiple nested indents it can become unclear and difficult to read.

    I don't know if other people judge me on the presentation of my code, but I know that I judge other people on it

  3. #3
    SitePoint Wizard silver trophybronze trophy mizwizzy's Avatar
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    Hey Stevie, thanks for your input!

    I can appreciate the nested indents, yes you are right it can become a bit precarious but I think I must be suffering from OCD or something because I still gotta do it! lol

    I tend to judge people on their code also, maybe I shouldn't? I'm not sure really if it's fair. Maybe I'm too strict? I guess when I do view code I expect the same effort I would put in and if I see something that falls short of that, I'm irked by it. To me, it just comes across as maybe just thrown together? Then again, it could be a genius piece of code, who cares how it looks behind the scenes! But I guess I do care, that's the issue. I think coding is like an art and should be displayed as such to be honest!

  4. #4
    ✯✯✯ silver trophybronze trophy php_daemon's Avatar
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    Yeah, my code is all over the place most of the time. Thankfully I'm not getting paid for coding, and the only people looking at the code and judging it are other neat freaks
    Saul

  5. #5
    <title class="lol"> bronze trophy TehYoyo's Avatar
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    Here's a sample of my code (for a project I'm working on atm):

    Code:
    		 <div id="navbg">
    		 <nav>
    			 <ul class="navlinks">
    				 <li class="liactive"><a href="">Home</a></li>
    				 <li class="navli"><a href="">Protein Sequence</a></li>
    				 <li class="navli"><a href="">DNA Sequence</a></li>
    				 <li class="navli"><a href="">DNA Mutations</a></li>
    				 <li class="navli"><a href="">Conclusion</a></li>
    			 </ul>
    		 </nav>
    		 </div><!--navbg-->
    When I do HTML, I'll nest indents but also I'll comment whenever I close a div with the id name.

    My CSS is a bit unconventional. Most people will do something like this:

    Code:
    div {
         height:360px;
    }
    I like to display my code like:

    Code:
    #col1head
    {
     width:469px;
     position:relative;
     display:block;
     margin-left:5px;
     margin-top:30px;
     padding:3px;
     height:50px;
     background-color:#0c728b;
    }
    That's personal. I like neat code because it's easier to read if I view the source. I think we do judge the coder on the code. If it's condensed to load faster, I can understand that, but when it's very spacious, liberally commented, and such, I appreciate the effort. I don't know how you can alphabetize your CSS properties...it would take way too long for me :/

    I make my code neat for debugging purposes...I don't care about the people reading my code.

    Note: I had a really mean teacher for a web class. I turned off word wrap in Notepad++ (<3) and just kept hitting end, delete, end, delete to condense my code. I just hope it was really hard to grade

    ~TehYoyo

  6. #6
    . shoooo... silver trophy logic_earth's Avatar
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    For the nested indenting problem, I delay that problem by using 2 spaces for tabs instead of four. I also try and keep things from going over the 80 char mark. Then again...I am very generous with me space bar and enter key. Lots of white space every where. Both in terms of html and css.

    Template example of HTML:
    Code HTML4Strict:
    <!DOCTYPE html>
    <html lang="en">
      <head>
        <meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html;charset=utf-8" charset="utf-8">
        <title>...</title>
      </head>
    <!-- - 80 - 80 - 80 - 80 - 80 - 80 - 80 - 80 - 80 - 80 - 80 - 80 - 80 - 80 - -->
      <body>
        <div id="...">
          <div id="...">
            <div id="...">
              Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Donec at ante
              vitae tellus lobortis viverra. Curabitur ultricies neque id dolor
              convallis at pharetra tortor mattis. Sed vel enim eget libero molestie
              varius bibendum volutpat velit. Cras mollis porta quam, ut tincidunt
              mi lobortis dictum. Etiam imperdiet interdum odio sit amet facilisis.
            </div>
          </div>
        </div>
      </body>
    </html>

    For CSS I keep things condensed but at the same time very open with lots of white space. I also indent whole blocks for rules I deem as children of a parent.

    Code CSS:
    #some-id {
      param: value;
      param: value;
    }
     
      #some-id .nested-class {
        param: value;
        param: value;
      }

    If 2 spaces is not enough indent, separating blocks by using a few newline makes it much easier.
    Logic without the fatal effects.
    All code snippets are licensed under WTFPL.


  7. #7
    SQL Consultant gold trophysilver trophybronze trophy
    r937's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TehYoyo View Post
    ... and just kept hitting end, delete, end, delete to condense my code.
    you should be able to do that with a single search/replace command

    it's trivial in ♥ UltraEdit ♥

    rudy.ca | @rudydotca
    Buy my SitePoint book: Simply SQL
    "giving out my real stuffs"

  8. #8
    It's all Geek to me silver trophybronze trophy
    ralph.m's Avatar
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    I've actually started to write my CSS in lines, and find it easier to work that way, despite most people seemingly hating it:

    Code:
    #some-id {param:value; param:value;}
      #some-id .nested-class {param:value; param:value;}
    I actually find it easier to make my way around the code like that, as there's a lot less scrolling, and I order things in a pretty logical way (for me, at least).

  9. #9
    SitePoint Wizard silver trophybronze trophy mizwizzy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by php_daemon View Post
    Yeah, my code is all over the place most of the time. Thankfully I'm not getting paid for coding, and the only people looking at the code and judging it are other neat freaks
    Eek, the crazy mind of the daemon

    Quote Originally Posted by TehYoyo View Post

    That's personal. I like neat code because it's easier to read if I view the source. I think we do judge the coder on the code. If it's condensed to load faster, I can understand that, but when it's very spacious, liberally commented, and such, I appreciate the effort.....

    ....I make my code neat for debugging purposes...I don't care about the people reading my code.
    That's interesting, perhaps it is an individual mindset really. We obviously don't all think alike and our approach to coding is quite evident of that, in some cases. Maybe it's attributed to our capacity as coders say in terms of knowledge. Do we tend to "rush" code more because of our increasing knowledge and aren't really bothered about the "little stuff" like presentation etc? Hmm, my approach to coding "layout wise" has not changed since I started some years ago. I still need to have things neat, in order and with some logic to them, but again that's when the personal preference comes into play too.

    Quote Originally Posted by TehYoyo View Post
    I don't know how you can alphabetize your CSS properties...it would take way too long for me :/
    Quote Originally Posted by r937 View Post
    you should be able to do that with a single search/replace command

    it's trivial in ♥ UltraEdit ♥

    As Rudy said above, it's the same for me in Notepad++...but you got that already


    Quote Originally Posted by TehYoyo View Post
    Note: I had a really mean teacher for a web class. I turned off word wrap in Notepad++ (<3) and just kept hitting end, delete, end, delete to condense my code. I just hope it was really hard to grade

    ~TehYoyo
    Now that's just evil


    Quote Originally Posted by logic_earth View Post
    For CSS I keep things condensed but at the same time very open with lots of white space. I also indent whole blocks for rules I deem as children of a parent.

    Code CSS:
    #some-id {
      param: value;
      param: value;
    }
     
      #some-id .nested-class {
        param: value;
        param: value;
      }

    If 2 spaces is not enough indent, separating blocks by using a few newline makes it much easier.
    See, this is code in all it's glory. Respected and displayed as such. You've made me notice I also include the "newline" breaks alot to keep things clean. I didn't realise I did that that much but I do!

    Quote Originally Posted by ralph.m View Post
    I've actually started to write my CSS in lines, and find it easier to work that way, despite most people seemingly hating it:

    Code:
    #some-id {param:value; param:value;}
      #some-id .nested-class {param:value; param:value;}
    I actually find it easier to make my way around the code like that, as there's a lot less scrolling, and I order things in a pretty logical way (for me, at least).
    Yikes, Ralph I don't know how you do it! To me, that's a bit of a nightmare to read. I know where you're coming from and it is logical, I guess that's the different mindsets kicking in now. Perhaps mine is leaning more towards a designer than a developer, even with my code

  10. #10
    Mazel tov! bronze trophy kohoutek's Avatar
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    Lately, I've been making it a habit to group everything, from typographic properties, to color, to layout stuff, and I write everything (except the first curly bracket) on a new line, e.g. like so:


    Code CSS:
    #my-id {
       background: rgb(35,35,35) url(image.png) no-repeat 0 0;
       color: rgb(255,255,255);
       text-transform: uppercase;
       text-shadow:1px 0 1px rgba(0,0,0,.8);
       width:80%;
       float: left;
       position:relative;
       top: .5em;
       left:0;
    }

    The order is:

    a) Colors and typographic styles
    b) Element dimensions
    c) Element positioning/floating, etc.

    I find I can scan the properties more easily when they're grouped by what they affect.

    Furthermore, I group all CSS rules based on what they do, so #header, #nav, #footer, #content, #sidebar, .columns are grouped as layout styles, link styles, headings, paragraphs, lists, etc. are grouped as typographic styles, and page-specific styles are grouped separately.
    Maleika E. A. | Rockatee | Twitter | Dribbble



  11. #11
    SitePoint Wizard silver trophybronze trophy mizwizzy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kohoutek View Post
    Lately, I've been making it a habit to group everything, from typographic properties, to color, to layout stuff, and I write everything (except the first curly bracket) on a new line, e.g. like so:


    Code CSS:
    #my-id {
       background: rgb(35,35,35) url(image.png) no-repeat 0 0;
       color: rgb(255,255,255);
       text-transform: uppercase;
       text-shadow:1px 0 1px rgba(0,0,0,.8);
       width:80%;
       float: left;
       position:relative;
       top: .5em;
       left:0;
    }

    The order is:

    a) Colors and typographic styles
    b) Element dimensions
    c) Element positioning/floating, etc.

    I find I can scan the properties more easily when they're grouped by what they affect.

    Furthermore, I group all CSS rules based on what they do, so #header, #nav, #footer, #content, #sidebar, .columns are grouped as layout styles, link styles, headings, paragraphs, lists, etc. are grouped as typographic styles, and page-specific styles are grouped separately.
    Maleika, when I grow up I want to be like you

    I love your approach, though on a side-note I must say I'm more a hex girl than an rgb one! I see your method and it's a good one, I can imagine it's quite easy to get into that routine when you start it. Plus it'll be easy to find things too when you need to carry out amendments. Huh, puts my alphabetical listing to shame

  12. #12
    ✯✯✯ silver trophybronze trophy php_daemon's Avatar
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    Well, yeah, see with things like CSS or static HTML (let alone server side programming) it's only natural to keep some sort of formatting standard. But try and keep that formatting in the HTML output when its produced by several different parts of the server side code. It's not worth the effort. Worse yet, if you try to keep the output all neat, the source code often ends up being a mess.

    Your blog's HTML output is all over the place too, Hazel, so just what are you talking about here?
    Saul

  13. #13
    Mazel tov! bronze trophy kohoutek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mizwizzy View Post
    Maleika, when I grow up I want to be like you

    I love your approach, though on a side-note I must say I'm more a hex girl than an rgb one! I see your method and it's a good one, I can imagine it's quite easy to get into that routine when you start it. Plus it'll be easy to find things too when you need to carry out amendments. Huh, puts my alphabetical listing to shame
    I use RGB because I find it a lot more practical for when I decide at some point that I'd like to change the opacity and use RGBA, so I might as well write it in RGB right away instead of having to convert HEX to RGB in such situations.
    Maleika E. A. | Rockatee | Twitter | Dribbble



  14. #14
    SitePoint Wizard silver trophybronze trophy mizwizzy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by php_daemon View Post
    Well, yeah, see with things like CSS or static HTML (let alone server side programming) it's only natural to keep some sort of formatting standard. But try and keep that formatting in the HTML output when its produced by several different parts of the server side code. It's not worth the effort. Worse yet, if you try to keep the output all neat, the source code often ends up being a mess.
    I can see your point here, I guess it can be unrealistic in certain instances - I don't really know enough on "server side programming" to comment expertly on how to control that beast but I'd imagine if there's a will there's a way

    Quote Originally Posted by php_daemon View Post
    Your blog's HTML output is all over the place too, Hazel, so just what are you talking about here?
    Eh, nevermind that meanie...it's a manic progressive project of mine, I was referring to my CSS presentation at the outset if you recall, not my HTML, though still, I do like order in place there too. I usually "format" when I'm done and as I said, this is an on-going past-time so no rush for me ...and quit snooping...snooper!

    Quote Originally Posted by kohoutek View Post
    I use RGB because I find it a lot more practical for when I decide at some point that I'd like to change the opacity and use RGBA, so I might as well write it in RGB right away instead of having to convert HEX to RGB in such situations.
    Yeah I figured as much Maleika, you don't do something unless there's a valid reason and purpose for it! It's a good idea and now when I think of it, something I should update to myself, ah...still lots to learn!

  15. #15
    Mouse catcher silver trophy Stevie D's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by logic_earth View Post
    Code HTML4Strict:
      <body>
        <div id="...">
          <div id="...">
            <div id="...">
              Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Donec at ante
              vitae tellus lobortis viverra. Curabitur ultricies neque id dolor
              convallis at pharetra tortor mattis. Sed vel enim eget libero molestie
              varius bibendum volutpat velit. Cras mollis porta quam, ut tincidunt
              mi lobortis dictum. Etiam imperdiet interdum odio sit amet facilisis.
            </div>
          </div>
        </div>
      </body>
    That would just drive me mental if every time I edited the text I had to reflow the lines and move the indent spacing around...

  16. #16
    <title class="lol"> bronze trophy TehYoyo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kohoutek View Post
    Code CSS:
    #my-id {
       background: rgb(35,35,35) url(image.png) no-repeat 0 0;
       color: rgb(255,255,255);
       text-transform: uppercase;
       text-shadow:1px 0 1px rgba(0,0,0,.8);
       width:80%;
       float: left;
       position:relative;
       top: .5em;
       left:0;
    }
    That's another interesting thing. How do you write your colors? I think with the addition of RGBA, I'll start using the RGBA form, but as of now I use Hex.

    Quote Originally Posted by ralph.m View Post
    I've actually started to write my CSS in lines, and find it easier to work that way, despite most people seemingly hating it
    That seriously makes me want to...do terrible things to myself when I read over code like that.

  17. #17
    Mazel tov! bronze trophy kohoutek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TehYoyo View Post
    That's another interesting thing. How do you write your colors? I think with the addition of RGBA, I'll start using the RGBA form, but as of now I use Hex.
    Hmm... not sure what you mean, but if you mean whether I use HEX or RGB, then I always declare my colors and background colors in RGB.
    Maleika E. A. | Rockatee | Twitter | Dribbble



  18. #18
    <title class="lol"> bronze trophy TehYoyo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kohoutek View Post
    Hmm... not sure what you mean, but if you mean whether I use HEX or RGB, then I always declare my colors and background colors in RGB.
    That's what I meant...is it better practice to do it that way? Or just less confusing?

    ~TehYoyo

  19. #19
    ✯✯✯ silver trophybronze trophy php_daemon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mizwizzy View Post
    Eh, nevermind that meanie...it's a manic progressive project of mine, I was referring to my CSS presentation at the outset if you recall, not my HTML, though still, I do like order in place there too. I usually "format" when I'm done and as I said, this is an on-going past-time so no rush for me ...and quit snooping...snooper!
    No need for excuses. I doubt anybody bothers to prettify WordPress output, it's probably impossible without a speical plugin just for that anyway and then it would just add an unnecessary overhead.

    My CSS is pretty too, honest
    Saul

  20. #20
    Mouse catcher silver trophy Stevie D's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TehYoyo View Post
    That's what I meant...is it better practice to do it that way? Or just less confusing?
    I use hex codes because that's how I've always done it since I started designing web sites 13 years ago, when that was all that was on offer. Because I've got used to the hex codes for a lot of the colours I use regularly, it isn't a big deal, but I agree that logically it would make far more sense to use RGB, on the basis that it takes the calculation step out of the process. On the other hand, the purist in me objects to the potentially 12 extra characters need for rgb(255,255,255) instead of #fff ... am I a bit obsessed? Maybe ... !

  21. #21
    Mazel tov! bronze trophy kohoutek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TehYoyo View Post
    That's what I meant...is it better practice to do it that way? Or just less confusing?

    ~TehYoyo
    I don't consider it better practice. To me it's a matter of practicability and personal preference. It's just easier to formulate an RGB value into an RGBA value. The other thing is that I understand RGB values better than HEX values.
    Maleika E. A. | Rockatee | Twitter | Dribbble



  22. #22
    <title class="lol"> bronze trophy TehYoyo's Avatar
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    I suppose...but usually the program or whatever that's giving me the color has web (but also RGB as well).

    I might switch...maybe it's just a 'what's for today' sort of thing.

    ~TehYoyo

  23. #23
    . shoooo... silver trophy logic_earth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stevie D View Post
    That would just drive me mental if every time I edited the text I had to reflow the lines and move the indent spacing around...
    Get a better editor then. Indenting and reflowing are taken care of for me.
    Logic without the fatal effects.
    All code snippets are licensed under WTFPL.


  24. #24
    <title class="lol"> bronze trophy TehYoyo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by logic_earth View Post
    Get a better editor then. Indenting and reflowing are taken care of for me.
    What's reflowing?

    Although for indenting...Notepad++ ftw!!!!

    ~TehYoyo

  25. #25
    SitePoint Guru bronze trophy AndrewCooper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mizwizzy View Post
    I've been reading a few random articles recently on good coding practices and techniques and it makes me wonder what other people do in terms of presentation, structure, methods etc, as I've not really seen any "definitive standard" so far.
    I had similar thoughts a while back. See my threads Markup Formatting and Best Web Page Structure Convention? for the results! Interesting responses, just like in this thread of yours Hazel

    Quote Originally Posted by mizwizzy View Post
    What's your style or maybe you don't have any? Are you a "rough and ready" coder? Or maybe you use a code beautifier to help you?
    I have a style, and I have swagger, and I have class. Haha. I hand-code everything and make it beautiful. Code beautifier? That's like using cosmetics or something. Psshh.

    Quote Originally Posted by mizwizzy View Post
    Do you think people judge you on your code presentation, say in terms of professionalism and quality of work? I can understand why some people might do this but once it works, adheres to standards, shouldn't it be ok? Or perhaps... why should you have to compromise, if a job is worth doing, it should be done correctly.
    I judge other people on their code presentation, so I take it that others judge me too. Treat others how you want to be treated. I judge other peoples code style and presentation as a representation of their abilities, and I expect others to do the same when they see my code. If you're going to hand-code a Web page and don't present it in a readable and clean fashion then something is wrong!

    If a job is worth doing, it should indeed be done correctly.


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