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  1. #1
    ********* Addict WP1's Avatar
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    Hello,

    I am using a WYSIWYG editor at Homestead http://www.Homestead.com
    I am not happy with the page layout results because there are so many code conflicts with the editor that pages do not look right in Netscape although they are "ok" in IE. Because of this problem I am continually making design chances and accepting a layout I really do not want.

    I want to leave Homestead and build the site the way I want it but I do not know how to position script and images where I want them without the help of a WYSIWYG editor.

    Can anyone recommend an online resource where I could find information, instructions, and/or a tutorial as to how to get a pay to "layout" the way you want it to??

    Thanks in advance

    WP

  2. #2
    Follow Me On Twitter: @djg gold trophysilver trophybronze trophy Dan Grossman's Avatar
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    Layout and design *IS* the hard part of web design when it comes to writing in HTML. It's the part that takes the designers sometimes years of experience to get it to a professional level.

    A few good resources are:
    -WebmasterBase.com
    -WebMonkey.com
    -WebDevPortal.com has a few articles on it by experienced writers

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  3. #3
    SitePoint Guru CJ's Avatar
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    I have a section at my site which may come in handy. It hasn't a lot of articles yet but here it goes: http://freesources.net/authoring/layout

    For the rest. You should switch to an offline WYSIWYG editor like FP (Express is free with IE4+, 2000 is about 150$ and it comes with a graphic editor) or DreamWeaver (not my favourite but it's just a matter of taste) or you could learn HTML and code your pages in NotePad or an editor like Homesite.

    Christophe

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  4. #4
    SitePoint Wizard TWTCommish's Avatar
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    Sounds like you need to finish learning HTML...don't worry, it's easy!

    Images, text and the like are positioned on different pages using tables. I can't delve into tables here in this post, but any book on HTML will tell you all about them. If you see a thin black line on a page, sometimes it's just a thin table cell set with a black background...without tables we'd all be forced to use CSS positioning, which isn't widely supported yet.

    Definetly learn more about tables...right now they're essential to design.


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  5. #5
    SitePoint Evangelist
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    hhmm you think you have problems with netscape in a wysiwyg editor ? I have a nightmare in notepad. I should really learn some more stuff about compatability.

    However for layout I think tables are essential. There are pretty simple once you get the hang of them to. Once you know how to use them you can basically layout how you want.

    Most of the stuff I build is neraly all tables. I am not sure if this is bad, but I find myself using them if not really needed. I just think its more organised...

    Tables are a must... Learning html in notepad is also

  6. #6
    Skills to Pay the Bills Sparkie's Avatar
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    There are lots of good resources to help you learn HTML - www.htmlgoodies.com is one of my longtime favorites.

    There's even a tool that will construct website layouts for you, although I never had any luck getting it to work on my system. Its at www.web-o-tron.com and called Layout-O-Matic. Maybe it could help you shape a design for your pages.

    Best of luck!


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  7. #7
    ********* Addict WP1's Avatar
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    I want to thank all for their input and recommendations. It is greatly appreciated.

    I began learning HTML by reading a book for kids on how to create a web page. For a web neophyte this was the best way to begin. The book made no assumptions about what I knew. Then I went through HTMLgoodies which I agree is one of the best tutorial on HTML on the net.

    I would just like to make a suggestion to those much more experienced than I to do the following,
    1. Make up a Basic Web Page with Images and text across the page.
    2. Show the "View Source" page
    3. Explain what you did and why

    The page should not be fancy, just basic. This would make it clearer to folks how to layout a page. More budding webmasters would probably be less afraid of building pages with a Text editor and not get locked into using only a WYSIWYG editor.

    I think it would make a great "layout" article for your sites and encourage site visits. I am sure I am not the only one with this question.

    BTW, I have now bookmarked, Freesources.net,
    Pawsitronic.com and Webdevportal.com in my Web Resoruces folder and have added my Email address to the MyCoding.com web site notification list.

    Again thanks everyone.

    WP

  8. #8
    Kat's Meow Senior ******* WebKat's Avatar
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    I had a photographic organization's site at Homestead for 1-1/2yrs and one thing that you have to know is that it was designed originally as only a drag'n'drop editor, no more. The reason your page formatting is off is due in part to the fact that you are importing your images and text into Homestead's table formatting, and not yours. For example, your images are embedded, so they won't move, but your text boxes are floating. Bet you notice how your text often overlaps your images at times - that is the reason. You are learning the hard way is some respects, but having the ability to make a page work with Homestead is quite a talent! Those skills will overlap themselves when you learn more about web design...

    You can learn to create a simple table and insert as their HTML snippet but it still can conflict with their default page table layout. Once you begin to learn more about HTML and tables you will be surprised that you can do more with Homestead. Don't underestimate what you are learning while using Homestead as long as you keep trying to understand how works...learn the basics of HTML and you will see how a page is created.

    Once you need updating on a regular basis you need an editor where you can do that with ease - and not having to update each page individually. Having control is the best part of learning to build a web site with other editors!

    What I suggest - from a Homesteader to Dreamweaver person?
    <UL TYPE=SQUARE><LI>Learn HTML - that is a must...especially while you are still at Homestead - learn all the behind the scenes reasons why and how their pages works. It will help you to understand HTML when you can see what it does and doesn't do. A great simple resource book is HTML 4 - Visual Quickstart Guide from PeachPit Press. Only about $15 and well worth it.
    <LI>Find the best webmaster sites, such as here at SitePoint, WebMonkey, .net and bookmark them and visit often. One site that you will use often is About.com/Web Design...it has links to many other resources. While at these sites click around and see what they have to offer...you will find more resources that will help.
    <LI>Go ahead and use Frontpage Express if you have it now, which is free with windows, as you can visually see just what you are doing when building a web page. That is what I used when I wanted to learn how to do it myself. Doesn't mean you will work with this editor forever. I'm now using Dreamweaver and loving it. By understanding HTML and learning this first, you will understand just how these WYSIWYG editors work. But you can't rely on WYSIWYG editors anymore than Homestead, you need to know the language to custom edit your pages.
    <LI>Download whatever free editors that you can and try them out - 1st Page, SiteAid are only two that you can have for free. CuteHTML is another trial to try, along with learning FTP.
    <LI>Download all the 30-day trials for other HTML, WYSIWYG and graphic programs. This way you can see how other editors work and find the one best for you - and that is the key 'Find the best one for you'
    <LI>Keep in mind everyone's recommendations may not be right for you 'at this moment' - if you try TextPad too early it may see too complex to write code from scratch, but later it may turn out to be the way you want to create your web site.
    <LI>Experiment and experiment with writing code and viewing it on the web. Trial and error is the best tool you can have. View the 'page' source of websites and with the help of your resources, figure what an Image Tag or Hyperlink Tag is...
    <LI>And never hesitate to post your questions here at the SP Forums - you will learn so much from others.
    </UL>

    P.S....and having your site compatible with Netscape and IE at the same time will be your ongoing challenge whether using Homestead or not!

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    Dlynn ~SitePoint Moderator~
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  9. #9
    Kat's Meow Senior ******* WebKat's Avatar
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    <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote/font><HR>Originally posted by WP1:

    I would just like to make a suggestion to those much more experienced than I to do the following,
    1. Make up a Basic Web Page with Images and text across the page.
    2. Show the "View Source" page
    3. Explain what you did and why

    The page should not be fancy, just basic. This would make it clearer to folks how to layout a page.
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    I was writing my post when you 'posted' yours, so you are doing much of what I suggested already! You are on the right path...

    Your suggestion is just one of the kind of VISUAL that I was always looking for in the beginning and really still am - since I work best with seeing rather than reading to learn. Which I believe is the primary reason many just starting use WYSIWYG editors - not because they are 'lazy' as some will say, but because they can see what they are doing so much easier!

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    Dlynn ~SitePoint Moderator~
    PawPrint Designs by WebKat
    "Let's keep Ethics on the Web"

  10. #10
    SitePoint Enthusiast mca00's Avatar
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    Here is a site I found helpful http://davesite.com

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