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  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleDee View Post
    The reason I am thinking of spending a lot of money on videos and podcasts is to GET VISITORS (and hopefully Customers).
    Yes, but that won't bring them to the site in the first place, because they won't know about it.

    I spent A LOT of money on radio advertising that yielded virtually no visitors to my site
    Indeed. And that's partly why people re-using your videos can be free advertizing for you ... and why it's worth considering posting videos on YouTube etc.

    When Cory Doctorow—who is a novelist and passionate campaigner against DRM—made the digital editions of his novels available for free, his book sales reportedly skyrocketed ... which he attributes to the free advertising he got through people passing around the digital versions.

    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleDee View Post
    Maybe I should have become a beautician?!
    Yes, well, apparently the two most recession-proof products worldwide are cosmetics and beer, so you may be on a winner there.
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  2. #27
    SitePoint Wizard DoubleDee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ralph.m View Post
    Yes, but that won't bring them to the site in the first place, because they won't know about it.
    True, but it may keep them there and inspire them to tell their friends about my site.


    Indeed. And that's partly why people re-using your videos can be free advertizing for you ... and why it's worth considering posting videos on YouTube etc.
    But doesn't using YouTube look unprofessional?

    I mean, do you go to Citibank or Target or Sony or BMW and then end up being transferred to watch company or product videos on YouTube?!


    When Cory Doctorow—who is a novelist and passionate campaigner against DRM—made the digital editions of his novels available for free, his book sales reportedly skyrocketed ... which he attributes to the free advertising he got through people passing around the digital versions.
    I'll have to read up on him...


    Yes, well, apparently the two most recession-proof products worldwide are cosmetics and beer, so you may be on a winner there.
    You really know how to make a girl feel better, Ralph...


    Debbie

  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleDee View Post
    But doesn't using YouTube look unprofessional?
    Speaking for myself, I'd say no. I'm fine with companies displaying their video on their site but pulling it from YouTube (or Vimeo, or whatever). It's just practical these days. And don't forget that if you show a YouTube video on your site, it doesn't take the user to YouTube at all, but pulls it in from YouTube. Sure, users can then head off to YouTube to watch more ... but if that happens, you probably just need to work on your content a bit more to keep them on your site. But having the video on YouTube also means it's very findable, which is a big plus, and is far more likely to bring people to your site than take them away (on average, anyhow).
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  4. #29
    SitePoint Wizard DoubleDee's Avatar
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    I'm glad we are on the same schedules even though at different times of the day. (You're my night-time chat buddy!)

    Quote Originally Posted by ralph.m View Post
    Speaking for myself, I'd say no. I'm fine with companies displaying their video on their site but pulling it from YouTube (or Vimeo, or whatever). It's just practical these days.
    Sorry for all of the dumb questions, but I'm really clueless on this topic.

    Can you provide me some "corporate" links where you are on the Corporate Website but watching a video on YouTube or Vimeo?

    I am not following how that works.

    And what is YouTube getting out of this relationship?

    Why would they pay for the bandwidth to host my videos?

    BTW, what are the alternatives to YouTube, since I think they are just another mega-evil-US-corporation...


    And don't forget that if you show a YouTube video on your site, it doesn't take the user to YouTube at all, but pulls it in from YouTube. Sure, users can then head off to YouTube to watch more ... but if that happens, you probably just need to work on your content a bit more to keep them on your site. But having the video on YouTube also means it's very findable, which is a big plus, and is far more likely to bring people to your site than take them away (on average, anyhow).
    If I did this, then what happens if I no longer want my content on YouTube or whatever?

    Am I surrendering my rights?

    And back to my Original Post...

    If I don't stream the videos, then how can i have videos on my website without using YouTube?

    Again, some examples would help.

    Now time for a late-night donut...

    Thanks,


    Debbie

  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleDee View Post
    Can you provide me some "corporate" links where you are on the Corporate Website but watching a video on YouTube or Vimeo?

    I am not following how that works.
    It's very common. When you view a video on YouTube, there is a Share button below the video that provides you with code that you can paste into your website to display that video on your site. Takes about ten seconds to set up.

    And what is YouTube getting out of this relationship? Why would they pay for the bandwidth to host my videos?
    YouTube is owned by Google, and as you know, Google is our great, good and kindly Overlord, from whom all goodness and generosity cometh. What more do you need to know?

    what are the alternatives to YouTube
    There are quite a few, some free and some not, such as

    Vimeo
    Blip TV
    Fliqz
    Ooyala
    Brightcove
    Influxis
    Maxcast
    ...

    If I did this, then what happens if I no longer want my content on YouTube or whatever? Am I surrendering my rights?
    No, just pull the video down again. You see that all the time on YouTube.
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  6. #31
    SitePoint Wizard DoubleDee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ralph.m View Post
    It's very common. When you view a video on YouTube, there is a Share button below the video that provides you with code that you can paste into your website to display that video on your site. Takes about ten seconds to set up.
    Do you know of any corporations that have that on their websites that I could see in action? Links?

    So I would need a YouTube account and then have to incorporate YouTube's code into my webpage?

    What file format(s) would I need to use?


    YouTube is owned by Google, and as you know, Google is our great, good and kindly Overlord, from whom all goodness and generosity cometh. What more do you need to know?
    Yeah, right!!


    There are quite a few, some free and some not, such as

    Vimeo
    Blip TV
    Fliqz
    Ooyala
    Brightcove
    Influxis
    Maxcast
    What, you have to pay for those other sites?


    Debbie

  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleDee View Post
    So I would need a YouTube account and then have to incorporate YouTube's code into my webpage?
    Yep.

    What file format(s) would I need to use?
    YouTube handles all that for you, converting your video to all the necessary formats automatically. Very convenient.

    What, you have to pay for those other sites?
    Some yes, some no.

    I've seen lots of commercial sites that display YouTube videos. It's very common. Have a look around ... you'll quickly find some.
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  8. #33
    SitePoint Wizard DoubleDee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ralph.m View Post
    I've seen lots of commercial sites that display YouTube videos. It's very common. Have a look around ... you'll quickly find some.
    Can't you provide some company names or links?

    Debbie

  9. #34
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    No, not off the top of my head.
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  10. #35
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    Go to youtube.Use a google account to signup.Upload your video.After uploading click on the embed button and you will see a bunch of iframe code in a box copy it and paste in your website or forum.Enjoy streaming.

  11. #36
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    For screen capturing it, Jing is a free one. It let's you specify an area of your screen to record. Makes it a cinch to rip even the most well protected video. For not as well protected videos, you have programs like Video Download Helper, also free.

    Honestly, you are wasting your time. =p

    Like everyone else has said, watermark your video and stick it on YouTube. Tons of other companies do it that way and they do just fine. If you are really against using YouTube, a video hosting company like Fliqz is your next best bet. To properly stream video you need much better hardware than a typical web server runs on. Even for a few videos, it's prohibitively costly (even for the company I work for which pays 5-digits in server costs a month).

  12. #37
    SitePoint Wizard DoubleDee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by samanime View Post
    For screen capturing it, Jing is a free one. It let's you specify an area of your screen to record. Makes it a cinch to rip even the most well protected video. For not as well protected videos, you have programs like Video Download Helper, also free.
    Well, since they make Snag-It, they must be good!


    Honestly, you are wasting your time. =p
    Looks that way. (Guess I haven't caught up with the times...}


    Like everyone else has said, watermark your video and stick it on YouTube. Tons of other companies do it that way and they do just fine.
    So back to my question to Ralph... What is YouTube getting out of hosting my videos for me? Traffic for Advertising?

    Don't you think some day they'll pull the plug and charge everyone $200/year to host videos. (I mean if hosting video is SO EXPENSIVE as you keep saying, then why would a company do it for strangers for free?!)


    If you are really against using YouTube, a video hosting company like Fliqz is your next best bet.
    I just went to Fliqz, clicked on "Packages" and got this...
    Server Error in '/' Application.
    The resource cannot be found.
    Description: HTTP 404. The resource you are looking for (or one of its dependencies) could have been removed, had its name changed, or is temporarily unavailable. Please review the following URL and make sure that it is spelled correctly.

    Requested URL: /VBOSS/aspx/packages.aspx
    Guess Fliqz is out as an option!!


    To properly stream video you need much better hardware than a typical web server runs on. Even for a few videos, it's prohibitively costly (even for the company I work for which pays 5-digits in server costs a month).
    Wow!

    Has it always been that way?

    And since Fliqz is out in my mind, what would be the Pros and Cons of going with other You Tube-espque hosts?

    If I went with one of these...

    Vimeo
    Blip TV
    Fliqz
    Ooyala
    Brightcove
    Influxis
    Maxcast

    ...would I get the same service and results as YouTube??

    Thanks,


    Debbie

  13. #38
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    Weird that happened with Fliqz. We've been using them for several months with no problems. =p

    Fliqz is part of that list. We also looked at Brightcove, though they were pretty expensive.

    Any of those would be a pretty decent server.

    As for YouTube... there is no way they'll suddenly pull the plug. Yes, it's expensive, but those ads pay a lot. It's the same reason Google is completely free for the end-user, but they are a multi-billion dollar company. =p

  14. #39
    SitePoint Wizard DoubleDee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by samanime View Post
    Weird that happened with Fliqz. We've been using them for several months with no problems. =p

    Fliqz is part of that list. We also looked at Brightcove, though they were pretty expensive.

    Any of those would be a pretty decent server.

    As for YouTube... there is no way they'll suddenly pull the plug. Yes, it's expensive, but those ads pay a lot. It's the same reason Google is completely free for the end-user, but they are a multi-billion dollar company. =p
    So other than a hatred of YouTube, why would someone want to use one of those other services or PAY for those other services?

    It sounds like your company has chosen to pay for something they could get for free...

    And how does using a non-You Tube provider affect "Searchability", "Social Media", "SEO", and so on?

    I mean one of the big things that has been communicated in this thread is "If you use You Tube - which is also FREE - you are more likely to be Found, Watched, Shared, and you'll in essence get FREED ADVERTISING..."

    Does the same apply to the other companies mentioned?

    Thanks,



    Debbie

    P.S.

    Off Topic:

    My "aversion" to YouTube is a social one...

    For several years You Tube has been hosting what I would label as "borderline Child Pornography" for FREE and then they turn around and MAKE ADVERTISING $$$ FROM IT?!


    How can any company host videos of pubescent and pre-pubescent girls showing their breasts and who-ha's online and not go to jail??

    If an individual had ONE PIC on their personal computer of a minor naked or even semi-clothed they would be thrown in jail and labeld a "Sex Offender" for life, and yet You Tube allows minors to uploads Sexually Explicit photos and videos of themselves and at best takes its sweet time removing them... Why the double-standard?!

    This has been in the news and is plastered over the Internet. And if people want to tackle Child Porn, Child Molestation, and screwing up an entire generation of kids, then Corporate America cannot continue to be allowed to profit off of something that is not only ILLEGAL, but MORAL DESPICABLE?!

    People try to justify this bad behavior, but guess what?! If someone uploaded a questionable photo here on SitePoint it would be gone in hours!!! Then again, SitePoint is more about "community" and less about "profits"...

    Google and You Tube have the ability to stop perpetuating the exploitation of young girls, and yet they have done very little over the last decade...

    If society wants to reduce the growing "Under-World" of Child Porn and Child Exploitation, then companies like Google and You Tube need to take ownership of the issue and stop dragging their feet as their pockets continue to fill with $$$$...

    THAT IS MY PROBLEM WITH YOU TUBE!!! (for what it is worth)

  15. #40
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    We used a paid site because the videos we have our private, so we can't have them on Youtube. Aside from that reason, the only other is people are overly concerned about controlling the chrome (the look) of the video player.

    As far as SEO with non-Youtube... it's tricky. You basically have to have the meta data on your page for the video in some way that Google can easily recognize. There isn't a 100% surefire format to do this in. The perk of using YouTube is it's owned by Google, so of course they've made their search engine be able to use it really well.

  16. #41
    SitePoint Wizard DoubleDee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by samanime View Post
    We used a paid site because the videos we have our private, so we can't have them on Youtube.
    I don't understand what you mean...


    Aside from that reason, the only other is people are overly concerned about controlling the chrome (the look) of the video player.
    So you have slightly more control over the "look and feel"?


    As far as SEO with non-Youtube... it's tricky. You basically have to have the meta data on your page for the video in some way that Google can easily recognize. There isn't a 100% surefire format to do this in. The perk of using YouTube is it's owned by Google, so of course they've made their search engine be able to use it really well.
    But good SEO should be mainly dictated by the content of my website and how web pages are marked up, right? (e.g. <title> elements, <h1>, <h2> headings, etc.)

    As far as finding *just* the video, I'm sure YouTube is 100 times better, but all I meant - if I even know what I'm trying to say - is that regardless of who hosts my videos, it should detract from the overall SEO of my site if I do things that someone like DeathShadow would coach me on, right?

    BTW, can you post a link on here to your company's videos or to some other large companies that you feel do things "right" as far as using a 3rd party to host their videos?

    Thanks,


    Debbie

  17. #42
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    By private, I meant they are behind a pay wall (which also means I can't provide the link you wanted =p).

    Yes, with the chrome I mean you can control the look and feel more.

    With SEO, the page SEO is dictated by the page itself, which doesn't really change. Where video "SEO" opens up is primarily in Google's Video search, which could potentially be lead generating. If you notice, 9 times out of 10, Youtube videos top that list.

    I don't know of any sites off the top of my head that I feel do things right, but pretty much just having it in the page is good enough. I don't feel there is anything too special you need to do to have it work well. Simple is better.

  18. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by samanime View Post
    Like everyone else has said, watermark your video and stick it on YouTube. Tons of other companies do it that way and they do just fine.
    Personally, I think it's a lazy option to just bung stuff on youtube, unless you have limited resources, or really need it as part of a wider social/search strategy. As has been pointed out, most corporate video doesn't appear on youtube, it shouldn't be used in every scenario any more than a facebook page should be used as a primary web presence for every company - the arguments stack up similarly, free, easy to set up, extra social traffic etc but it's an incomplete analysis that comes to the conclusion without really weighing up the downsides. Self hosting video really isn't that hard as an option.

    Quote Originally Posted by samanime View Post
    To properly stream video you need much better hardware than a typical web server runs on. Even for a few videos, it's prohibitively costly (even for the company I work for which pays 5-digits in server costs a month).
    You can host and stream a few videos on world-class hardware and networks for beer money depending on how many views you reckon you'll get - amazon cloudfront, rackspace cloud, influxis etc. Unless streaming is a primary high volume activity, owning your hardware doesn't provide ROI in comparison, it'd be a rare enterprise that would need to commit to that initially. A 5 minute high res clip costs about 1c per view on a typical CDN

  19. #44
    SitePoint Wizard DoubleDee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EastCoast View Post
    Personally, I think it's a lazy option to just bung stuff on youtube, unless you have limited resources, or really need it as part of a wider social/search strategy. As has been pointed out, most corporate video doesn't appear on youtube, it shouldn't be used in every scenario any more than a facebook page should be used as a primary web presence for every company - the arguments stack up similarly, free, easy to set up, extra social traffic etc but it's an incomplete analysis that comes to the conclusion without really weighing up the downsides.
    Glad to see a competing view. (I think Ralph started talking me into something that normally I would say is "tacky" at best?!)


    Self hosting video really isn't that hard as an option.
    So what would I need?

    I have a basic VPS with GoDaddy now.

    Could I use my existing Server/VPS, or would I need to off-load the video part?

    As far as videos, I would ideally like to have a modest library of 10-20 videos each about 1-3 minutes long, with a max likely under 8 minutes. The quality would be good, but no full-screen, hi-def silliness. The videos would be educational and likely just have a "talking head" whether me or someone else. Obviously I would have preferred *streaming* videos, but I'd be willing to just serve up video files.


    You can host and stream a few videos on world-class hardware and networks for beer money depending on how many views you reckon you'll get
    So take a stab at what you think it would cost me based on what I described.

    I have NO TRAFFIC on my site now. (Read less than 5 visitors a day)

    If I could get a couple hundred visitors a day I'd be elated. 1,000 visitors a day might be enough to actually amke some money?!


    amazon cloudfront, rackspace cloud, influxis etc.
    For a managed VPS, Rackspace charges like $1,000 per month.

    So what would they charge me to host and stream/serve out 5-10 videos for starters?!

    Thanks for a competing view!!!


    Debbie

  20. #45
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    While you can use cloud servers, if you don't understand how to manage a server (from console) it can get tricky, and the managed solutions generally have a pretty high price point, even for low traffic sites.

    If you wanted to go the Cloud Server route, pretty much all of them are based on two factors: what hardware you are using and how much traffic you have. You generally pay for both. I generally wouldn't try to put this on a VPS that is hosting other things. It makes more sense (and is easier to setup/maintain if it's own box).

    Cloud servers generally charge you per hour based on the specs you are doing. Since I know Rackspace Cloud because we use it (a lot), I'll use them as my example. Rackspace Cloud for example charges about 0.03 centers per hour per 256 MB of RAM you are using. I'd say you probably want at least a gig of RAM to properly stream. If it's really low traffic you could get away with 512 MB (the beauty of cloud servers is you can generally scale them pretty quickly). Rackspace Cloud also charges you for traffic, 0.05 per GB up and 0.22 per GB down. Say your video is 100 MB (a probably 10 minute video at decent quality). If your videos all together get about 100 views a month, that's 10,000 MB, or 10GB.

    So, your total cost for that would be 0.06 * 24 * 60 = $86.40 + 10 * .22 = $88.60 for each month of traffic, on the lower end, and pretty much goes up from there. That also assumes you pretty much are fully capable of managing your server completely through console to do everything. If you can't, you'd have to go with a managed solution which hikes the price up. You could go with a VPS as well, but generally those either don't have the specs you need or those specs come at a considerably higher price.

    My personal recommendation is still to use a service like Fliqz and Brightcove, if Youtube leaves a bad taste in your mouth. Those services manage all of the server stuff and generally work out to about the same price point as hosting it yourself (up until a relatively high amount of traffic, where it may become cheaper to host them on your own servers).

  21. #46
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    Another option is to use a free Flash or HTML5 player on your website that is hosted on a regular shared/VPS host, but have the video files sitting on a Rackspace account which just serves the files up when requested. (Their bandwidth is cheaper than your regular host's, and the content is delivered from their CDN, which is optimized for fast delivery). I've tried this in the past and it only cost a few dollars a month ... a cent or two every time someone watched a video.

    The advantage of this setup is that the videos don't chew up all your hosting bandwidth.

    Of course, this discussion has now moved away from protecting the content.
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  22. #47
    SitePoint Wizard DoubleDee's Avatar
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    **MODS: Go Advanced is not working...

    Quote Originally Posted by ralph.m View Post
    Another option is to use a free Flash or HTML5 player on your website that is hosted on a regular shared/VPS host, but have the video files sitting on a Rackspace account which just serves the files up when requested. (Their bandwidth is cheaper than your regular host's, and the content is delivered from their CDN, which is optimized for fast delivery). I've tried this in the past and it only cost a few dollars a month ... a cent or two every time someone watched a video.

    The advantage of this setup is that the videos don't chew up all your hosting bandwidth.
    Isn't that what samanime was talking about, or am I not understanding each of you?!


    Of course, this discussion has now moved away from protecting the content.
    Well, I started a thread on "How do I have videos on my website" but no one responded, so I guess we can do a 2-for-1 here!


    Debbie

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    Taking it further, (in fact circularly back to the start) if you're accepting that streaming protection isn't worthwhile, you can serve progressive download 'streaming' video from any old host. If you're low traffic, then you might as well use the bandwidth you are already paying for. When traffic ramps up, either upgrade the vps or offload to a cdn. The bandwidth on normal hosting is a lot cheaper than on cdn, though you don't get geographic distribution or redundancy, and your port is shared with website files (and on a vps other users). Won't be an issue on a site that's just getting started.

    I'd highly recommend a read of 'getting real' by 37 signals, a free online book about online enterprise by a successful company. A lot of it is contentious, but the advice to not over-think, over engineer and to not procrastinate on fine details is almost always spot on for small start ups.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleDee View Post

    So what would they charge me to host and stream/serve out 5-10 videos for starters?!
    Similar to amazon cloudfront, a few dollars a month will cover a handful of video and visitors. They don't do rtmp streaming last time I checked though, you'd be progressive download 'streaming' the files.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EastCoast View Post
    Taking it further, (in fact circularly back to the start) if you're accepting that streaming protection isn't worthwhile,
    I've backed off that stance for the time being...


    you can serve progressive download 'streaming' video from any old host. If you're low traffic, then you might as well use the bandwidth you are already paying for. When traffic ramps up, either upgrade the vps or offload to a cdn. The bandwidth on normal hosting is a lot cheaper than on cdn, though you don't get geographic distribution or redundancy, and your port is shared with website files (and on a vps other users). Won't be an issue on a site that's just getting started.
    How would I physically/technically host a video on my website?

    Let's say I go to Suzy Q and she creates a video for me. I assume she will give me some file?! Then what do I do??

    What do I need on my website/webpage? (High-level code)

    What do I expect Users to do? (e.g. click on a link)

    What will Users experience from there?

    How will I monitor people watching my video(s)?

    How will I know how much bandwidth is being used? (So I don't get a $1 million bill from GoDaddy, and yes, it has happened to others!!)

    Anything else?


    I'd highly recommend a read of 'getting real' by 37 signals, a free online book about online enterprise by a successful company. A lot of it is contentious, but the advice to not over-think, over engineer and to not procrastinate on fine details is almost always spot on for small start ups.
    Ha ha. Are you implying something?!

    BTW, have you read the entire book?

    How much are you worth?

    Should I ditch my business plans and just marry you?!

    Thanks,


    Debbie


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