SitePoint Sponsor

User Tag List

Page 1 of 4 1234 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 92

Hybrid View

  1. #1
    SitePoint Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Posts
    4
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Yahoo switching to PHP

    Here's a little something for the PHP people out there to brag about that I saw on Slashdot: "Yahoo has decided to switch from a proprietary system written in C/C++ to PHP for their backend scripting."

    In addition, they give a link to the Yahoo PHP presentation. An interesting read, but very scant on technical details. Maybe someone at Sitepoint would be willing to interview Michael Radwin and get the skinny on all the details. All said and done, I'm just glad it wasn't ASP. I've been using ASP for years and it's my least favorite language to develop with. I prefer PHP, Coldfusion, or JSP (maybe even Perl... maybe); but hey, that's only my opinion.

  2. #2
    Non-Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    544
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Looks like they're considering using Smarty and ionCube's PHP Accelerator too.

  3. #3
    midnight coder
    Join Date
    Dec 2000
    Location
    The flat edge of the world
    Posts
    838
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Yahoo! switching to PHP for backend scripting

    http://developers.slashdot.org/devel....shtml?tid=169

    And here's a presentation by a Yahoo engineer:

    http://public.yahoo.com/~radwin/talks/

    Right now the site is using a custom language call yScript2 written in C++, the slideshow shows why they're switching to PHP.

    Talk about job security, converting 8 million lines of proprietary code to PHP.
    Last edited by Robo; Oct 30, 2002 at 04:06.
    Work smarter, not harder. -Scrooge McDuck

  4. #4
    Ribbit... Eric.Coleman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    In your basement
    Posts
    1,268
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Good Presentation, Interesting stuff in there

    Is YSP something they also created as well.
    Eric Coleman
    We're consentratin' on fallin' apart
    We were contenders, now throwin' the fight
    I just wanna believe, I just wanna believe in us

  5. #5
    As the name suggests... trickie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    678
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    just to be picky they aren't porting all the code.

    They are integrating PHP into their 4000+ servers, and doing most future development using PHP/MySQL.

    Very good to get one of the largest web sites championing PHP's development time and scalability.

    --edit--
    yeah i think YSP is a in-house implementation. They don't say that anywhere, but i'm guessing Yahoo Server Pages ???

  6. #6
    Ribbit... Eric.Coleman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    In your basement
    Posts
    1,268
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Originally posted by trickie

    yeah i think YSP is a in-house implementation. They don't say that anywhere, but i'm guessing Yahoo Server Pages ???
    That was my guess, but I only seen about Y!Script 1/2
    Eric Coleman
    We're consentratin' on fallin' apart
    We were contenders, now throwin' the fight
    I just wanna believe, I just wanna believe in us

  7. #7
    SitePoint Wizard silver trophy Jeremy W.'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Toronto, Canada
    Posts
    9,121
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Basically the point is they messed up. Their internal projects have always been done "ad hoc" and off the cuff, and YScript, etc are just examples of that. If they had simply produced the requirements documents in the presentation before working on the scripting languages, they wouldn't need to redo everything.

    It's "the other end of the boat" syndrome. Everything looks different after you've gotten 5 feet further to your destination. Y! has chosen PHP, but even 4 months in is realising all the deficiencies, and if these aren't solved, Y! will again switch in 2 years, that's just the way they work. Check out their development cycle, they have wasted tens of millions of dollars due to poor planning, and they'll waste at least that much during their switch from current to current+PHP to whatever is next.

    They really need to get their act together and pick something that actually does satisfy all of their operational requirements. PHP doesn't.
    SVP Marketing, SoCast SRM
    Personal blog: Strategerize
    Twitter: @jeremywright

  8. #8
    + platinum's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Adelaide, Australia
    Posts
    6,441
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Sounds like a big job either way!

    4500+ servers

  9. #9
    SitePoint Addict
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    260
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Wow, PHP has come a long way... I wonder what database language they'll use.

  10. #10
    ********* wombat firepages's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    Perth Australia
    Posts
    1,717
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    "They really need to get their act together and pick something that actually does satisfy all of their operational requirements. PHP doesn't."


    What exactly does PHP need to do for you to realize that it is far more capable and scalable than you will ever give it credit for... ??? thats a major coup by anyones standards (hey I cant stand nor do I use yahoo & they are pretty good at shooting themselves in the foot...regardless)

    Perhaps you know more about PHP's capabilities than do the combined resources of the consultants and ponytails at yahoo, with all respect I think probably not, perhaps you should send them your CV... perhaps web-forms will impress them

    I would suggest you try and look behind the automation and wizards that certain technologies may present, and see why its not only possible, but often easier than you may realize and far more extensible to have full control of your application from the socket up.

  11. #11
    SitePoint Wizard silver trophy Jeremy W.'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Toronto, Canada
    Posts
    9,121
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Listen mate, has anyone ever told you you read too much into things?

    Did you read the presentation? Yahoo themselves said every single thing I did in the presentation.

    So, before you come in flaming me for whatever jynx you think I have against PHP RTFM.

    That said though, a proprietary solution will always be better than a generic one. Always. But, don't flame me on that either, as that's part of Y!'s presentation too.
    SVP Marketing, SoCast SRM
    Personal blog: Strategerize
    Twitter: @jeremywright

  12. #12
    SitePoint Addict richard_h's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    London
    Posts
    301
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I agree with firepages comments. Yahoo's reasoning behind their chose is clearly outlined: http://public.yahoo.com/~radwin/talk...phpcon2002.htm

  13. #13
    SitePoint Wizard silver trophy Jeremy W.'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Toronto, Canada
    Posts
    9,121
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Which part of firepages comments? The ones that flame me for saying exactly what Yahoo said?

    What part of what I said was not directly from Y!'s presentation?
    SVP Marketing, SoCast SRM
    Personal blog: Strategerize
    Twitter: @jeremywright

  14. #14
    SitePoint Enthusiast
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Posts
    88
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    good for them. I think php will do everything they need. I just wonder when this will happen (i didn't see it in there), and which version they will use.

  15. #15
    No. Phil.Roberts's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Location
    Nottingham, UK
    Posts
    1,142
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    They think they're right. And have done the exaustive research to back them up. You think they're wrong. And have not.

    Not a flame, just what you said.
    THE INSTRUCTIONS BELOW ARE OLD AND MAY BE INACCURATE.
    THIS INSTALL METHOD IS NOT RECOMMENDED, IT MAY RUN
    OVER YOUR DOG. <-- MediaWiki installation guide

  16. #16
    SitePoint Wizard silver trophy Jeremy W.'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Toronto, Canada
    Posts
    9,121
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Um, no. I think they are right. I was boiling down their history, not their decision. Sorry if I didn't communicate that, but I was boiling down the essence of the presentation:

    We messed up, how can we fix it?

    They chose PHP, but even the last few slides outline how PHP does have deficiencies and so on. And it does, every language, every framework, every OS, every hardware system has deficiencies.

    Here's what I said about their history:

    - they messed up
    - their internal projects have been done ad hoc
    - if they'd produced this presentation years ago they wouldn't have needed to go through 4 massive system overhauls
    - Yahoo's choosing of PHP, 4 months in has shown them that PHP doesn't fit all their objectives (research could have shown this as well)
    - Y! will switch again in 2 years (observation, they have every 2 years for the last 10, plus the fact that they see the deficiencies means they will want something better)
    - They need to pick something which meets all their objectives, or don't switch. PHP doesn't

    Each of these things is either directly said in the presentation, implied, or is an observation. None of it is against PHP, is pro Microsoft and "automation" or anything. It was me reading the presentation, giving a nod, and my perspective on what went wrong to bring them to the place where they pick a technology that doesnt' suit their needs.

    Sad thing is the PHP community is going to start trumpeting this as an example of PHP being "enterprise" when in reality it will be used to replace YScript, which wasn't enterprise either.

    Then, after Yahoo drops PHP the community will say "well, it WAS good enough for Yahoo, but they went with what was best for their needs now, though they could have done it in PHP".
    SVP Marketing, SoCast SRM
    Personal blog: Strategerize
    Twitter: @jeremywright

  17. #17
    phpLD Fanatic bronze trophy dvduval's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Silicon Valley
    Posts
    3,626
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Does anyone think Yahoo's choice will lead to further developement of the PHP language?

    In my opinion this is going to lead to some major acievements in:
    1) PHP as a language
    2) PHP's compatability with other languages and applications
    3) software for PHP

    It's a great day for PHP!

  18. #18
    SitePoint Wizard siteguru's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    Scotland
    Posts
    3,629
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I wonder what database language they'll use
    I thought I saw them mention mySQL in the presentation?
    Ian Anderson
    www.siteguru.co.uk

  19. #19
    Free me php klassicd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    San Diego
    Posts
    509
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Thats a huge transition isnt it? I mean rewriting the entire site in php? What about all the developers? How many of those c/c++ guys are going know php? Maybe some new jobs down the road heh?

    I cant believe someone would want to rewrite a site like that. Isnt php slower than perl anyways? Weird stuff.

  20. #20
    SitePoint Zealot
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Posts
    178
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    This can be good for PHP, a company this big picking it up *can* make some difference (since everyone knows about the site).
    Some nice specs there:

    Code
    – 8.1M lines of C/C++
    – 3.0M lines of Perl
    – 612 developers

    I hardly think they'll recode that in PHP!!
    An interesting thought is that they might deploy parts of their script as C extentions and give them back to the community!

    Isnt php slower than perl anyways?
    Well; any program is as slow as you write it, both of them are quite capable, but I would say Perl if you run mod_perl and know what you are doing.

    I wonder what database language they'll use
    I assume that SQL would be used

  21. #21
    Yugo full of anvils bronze trophy hillsy's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Location
    :noitacoL
    Posts
    1,859
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Hmmm... first time I've ever heard CF syntax described as "ugly"

    "Different", yes, but "ugly" is a new one (and probably puts him in oppostion to most of the web dev world - even those who dislike CF tend to like the syntax/ease of use )
    that's me!
    Now A Pom. And a Plone Nut
    Broccoli Martinez Airpark

  22. #22
    SitePoint Addict
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Whitehorse, Yukon
    Posts
    226
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Yep, straight from Yahoo! itself:

    "Why not ASP or Cold Fusion?

    • Pros
    – lots of 3rd-party integration
    – professional support

    • Cons
    – CF has ugly syntax
    – $$ for languages
    – $$ for Microsoft Windows

    Now, I can see the argument against ASP but CF? ASP runs on Windows and ChilisoftASP (which is hardly big enough for something of Yahoo!s size) but CFMX is available for Linux, Solaris, HP-UX, Windows, and more. Its easily configured search tools, specifically Verity, are great for websites both large and HUGE. But the powers that be chose PHP; that's cool too, but I sure hope they gave more credit to CF than just that.

    geof

  23. #23
    SitePoint Enthusiast
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Posts
    36
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Talking PHP for enterprise ?

    Aiyee , I like this. PHP at Yahoo.COM. I hope they are not as messy as before. It seem like they took years to redesign Yahoo Mail interface !!!
    Now I knew .Messy architecture and coding. However , PHP/Accelerator are very fast. But in Yahoo test , it lost to Perl. It is not as mature as Perl. So normal PHP without accelerator must be crawling. Perl/Accelerator must be flying.
    However, they miss the JBOSS Server completely. It is for J2EE/JSP architecture. I prefer J2EE but my current task is PHP/ASP.NET programming and I cannot play with it. But CFM is beautiful. It get thing done in a day instead of a week.

    I agree Perl is a nightmare . Last time , I maintained a project in Perl, end up deleting it and do it in PHP. Faster than try to decode the Latin. The clients never know the difference. They want to run it anywhere without license fees. That leave PHP,Perl.

    JSP need 90,000 dollar server. I hope I knew JBOSS sooner. I think they are using old BSD OS instead of current version. Don't tell them to upgrade to Suse Linux . Upgrading 4500+ servers.It is as bad as shouting 'Long Live King George' to a squad of American patriots.
    Last edited by vipeint; Oct 30, 2002 at 22:19.

  24. #24
    SitePoint Addict richard_h's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    London
    Posts
    301
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    What part of what I said was not directly from Y!'s presentation?
    ermmmm?? this bit probably:
    They really need to get their act together and pick something that actually does satisfy all of their operational requirements. PHP doesn't.

  25. #25
    Wanna-be Apple nut silver trophy M. Johansson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2000
    Location
    Halmstad, Sweden
    Posts
    7,400
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    The fact that they are actually considering using Smarty tells us a little about how much they really analyzed the situation.

    And why in the nine hells they are using mySQL is beyond me.
    Mattias Johansson
    Short, Swedish, Web Developer

    Buttons and Dog Tags with your custom design:
    FatStatement.com


Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •