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  1. #1
    SitePoint Wizard TWTCommish's Avatar
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    Happy Fourth of July everyone...keep in mind today is about a lot more than amateur firecrackers.



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    Chris Bowyer - Programmer in Training
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  2. #2
    Lord of the Underworld
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    Theyre DANCING and SINGING in the streets here in Australia...J/K. Yes, happy 4th of July.

    Adam

  3. #3
    SitePoint Wizard
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    Ugh...this is the worst fourth of july yet for me.

    I just got back from the party...I dont feel like telling the whole thing, but it turned out that I was stuck in a traffic jam for 3 and a half hours.

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  4. #4
    Destiny Manager Plebius's Avatar
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    Hehe... like celebrating violence and the illusion of freedom??


  5. #5
    SitePoint Wizard
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    Here in England, we don't celebrate the 4th of July!!
    But, hope all you guys enjoy it anyway!

  6. #6
    SitePoint Wizard TWTCommish's Avatar
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    As I mentioned earlier...let's remember WHY this day is so important...we're all very privelaged to be living in this area...people have already died for our freedom...we havn't had to...however in other countries people are still doing the same thing...I personally feel very fortunate to have been born when I was.



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  7. #7
    SitePoint Wizard
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    I'm personally going to move to Australia, Canada, or the UK ASAP because of stupid things the US is doing. But for now it is fun to see hundreds of thousands of dollars blown up in the air while people "ooh" and "aah" to their heart's content.

    Those $100,000 dollars you saw explode in the sky could be used for better purposes as far as I'm concerned...

  8. #8
    Your Lord and Master, Foamy gold trophy Hierophant's Avatar
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    That is a pretty poor attitude to takes towards your country D3V. Sure it has its problems just like all the other countries you mentioned do.

    When you move, if you need help just ask. I would rather that the people who were indifferent and didn't care move out then stay. It would allow those of us who do care, and try to make a difference to do a much better job.

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  9. #9
    SitePoint Wizard
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    d3v - move to the UK please!!
    I live in Kent, near London and it is a great place.

  10. #10
    SitePoint Wizard TWTCommish's Avatar
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    I'll have to second what Wayne said; people died for us and we're all very luck to live in such a wonderful period and such a wonderful country. Do not take it for granted, the fireworks we've all seen are a tribue to the people to gave their lives for us.

    Granted; most of the fireworks displays were ridiculously loaded up with rock and roll music--something I found inappropriate--but the message is the same to me personally: take 10-15 minutes out of your year to watch a beautiful sight that symbolizes the noble sacrifice of those before us.

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    [This message has been edited by TWTCommish (edited July 05, 2000).]

  11. #11
    Confirmed Halfwit
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    <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote/font><HR>I'm personally going to move to Australia, Canada, or the UK ASAP because of stupid things the US is doing.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Hmmm... I don't think you'll like Canada much better. Ever heard of the "brain drain"? That's the name given to the thousands of high tech workers who are leaving Canada to work in the US.

    Are you talking about business climate, work climate, political or other things?

    No country is perfect (no matter what the French tell you!) once you've lived in it for a few years. It's the nature of our humanity. How can we have a perfect society if we are not perfect people?

    Remember that "the grass is always greener on the other side." I sugest you travel for a few months to some other countries before you decide to pack it up and leave. Nothing broadens your perspective than living in Uganda/Haiti/India or some other country for a while.

    Cheers,
    Henri Straforelli

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  12. #12
    Hi there! Owen's Avatar
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    Humm... is it because it is a day celebrating independence from England which was a very bad thing for you guys?... Nah. Couldn't be. (Though I think today it may be more of an excuse to party.)

    d3v &gt; When you are talking about a budget of $1000 TRILLION (I can't remeber exactly from econ class except that all budget calculations are done in trillions) a year, $100,000 is a drop in the bucket. Consider the fact that the armed forces cost $300 trillion (and we get almost nothing from right now) or so a year, spending 100,000 on fireworks (and they are a lot cheaper then that in most places) isn't too bad. If you spread the money out among everyone who watches it is something $.01 per person for a 1/2 hour show. Anyway, people always like an excuse to party.

    Owen

    <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote/font><HR>Originally posted by James:
    Here in England, we don't celebrate the 4th of July!!
    But, hope all you guys enjoy it anyway!
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


  13. #13
    Destiny Manager Plebius's Avatar
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    I'm sure the victims of McCarthyism were rejoicing the fact that people died so their careeers and lives could be destroyed...

    just my $.02...


  14. #14
    SitePoint Wizard TWTCommish's Avatar
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    Luzer: you're implying that they died in vain? McCarthyism was a problem; but it was very short lived and a very small number of people were affected...it was one man for several years...not much more in my opinion...if it weren't for those who died I'd be drinking tea right now.

    You want something to truly mourn over? I think it's a shame that people died only to have a country evolve to the point where something like partial-birth abortion is allowed...not trying to start a political debate; just emphasizing how I think McCarthyism isn't really a serious problem...probably never was.




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  15. #15
    Your Lord and Master, Foamy gold trophy Hierophant's Avatar
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    Ok.. Lets not bring politics and controversial subjects into here. Gotta deal with that enough elsewhere.

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  16. #16
    SitePoint Wizard
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    $1000 trillion is one quadrillion A bit out of the reach even of the huge countries.

    Anyways, according to the US census there are 11,097 cities with more than 2500 people in them (1994) (or 3,141 counties, with an average of 3.533 towns eah, and each state has an average of 222 towns, too) so I'll assume they're going to be the only towns having fireworks.

    If the US had never had any fireworks they would have saved approx. $166,455,000,000 -- but that's just a petty .0294% of the US national debt of about $5,648,056,879,703.37 (source). That may seem like a TINY amount...well read on then.

    I'll set the average for a night of fireworks at $100,000. This comes out to $1,109,700,000. That's up there, in the billions.

    Also according to the Census, there are 275,177,971 people in the US. That's $4.03 for everyone in the US. They could buy 739,800,000 Diet Cokes.

    The US could buy about one million one hundred nine-thousand seven hundred computers for schools. They could buy a full meal for 221,940,000 people (or one for every person over 8 in the US). They could one out of every ten people the average salary.

    It seems so "small," but when you think of it country-wide it is quite an alarming amount.

    As for me wanting to move...I want to go to a country where I'm not restricted by the government to talk on ICQ. I want to go to a country where I don't have to pay for SSH clients. That's just what I think and I am not "right," in fact no one is when it comes to opinions. I just dislike the way this country does things--that's all.

    p.s. sorry if I'm such a cynical American

    [This message has been edited by d3v (edited July 06, 2000).]

  17. #17
    SitePoint Wizard
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    I think you need a vacation from that census

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  18. #18
    SitePoint Wizard
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    Yeah to cure me of repetitive strain injury. I'll have you know my wrists hurt after than post!!!

    [This message has been edited by d3v (edited July 06, 2000).]

  19. #19
    SitePoint Wizard TWTCommish's Avatar
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    It's not about the money...people died, and should be honored...doesn't matter in this situation if we're spending a lot.



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  20. #20
    Hi there! Owen's Avatar
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    I did a quick search on Google and found that it doesn't cost $100,000 ( http://www.fireworksamerica.com/contents/cost.htm ) only about $10,000 - $25,000. So you've already reduced the cost to $.40-$1.00 per person. Second, I doubt every city has fireworks. If there are two cities near each other then they probably combine. And in many places it is supported by other funds. For example where I live the 1.2 million hicks who go to the state exposition (aka fair) pay for the fireworks show giving locals a free show. So I'd imagine you'd cut the # of cities in 1/2.

    You are right about the trillions (a few too many 0s). The real budget is roughly $2 trillion a year. ( http://www.cbo.gov/showdoc.cfm?index=1820&sequence=2 ) But lets say it costs 100 million (I think less) dollars then that would be .005% of the yearly federal govt budget (seperate from state which actually does the shows) or about 30 times LESS then the government spends on an average day. Not bad... hardly a dent. I think cut it in 1/2 again or in 1/4 and you got the right figure.

    The above stat is misleading. Since the local city government pays for the fireworks (not the federal government), they only happen if the residents of the city want them. Thats why beverly hills gets nicer fireworks then mystery, alaska. It's the beauty of the American system. Everyone can get what they want.

    If we basically did what you said (give the poor all the excess funds) then we would have communism my friend. (where's McCarty)

    How does the government restrict the use of ICQ? I've never noticed any restriction. And the licensing costs of SSH are about to end on Sept 21 (?) - and I believe it's not the gov't but a private corp charging for it.


    You're too cynical (or misinformed).

    Owen

    --&gt; Okay, now no more of this please.

  21. #21
    SitePoint Wizard TWTCommish's Avatar
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    Out here in Pittsburgh a local radio station (WDVE) funded some of it...I don't know if they funded half, a fourth, or all of it...but they sponsored it in one way or another, and odds are this is common practice.

    So now we've probably got your average Joe shelling out a quarter at most...a quarter each to honor those who gave their lives...I'm not complaining.



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  22. #22
    SitePoint Wizard
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    I just want to justify my facts. I really don't want this to turn into Creation vs. Evolution

    The fireworksamerica.com link is for their services only. That doesn't include blockading of streets, police on guard, any tents that may be there, and free food they may be giving out.

    Plus I figure that if a two towns combine, the fireworks will be at least slightly better than they would be if the towns did them separately.

    As for the $100,000 dollar amount, that is the cost of my town of 12,000 people's cost for fireworks. I thought that I was severely underrating the cost of a night of fireworks, however I may be wrong.

    As for ICQ, they don't let anyone under 13 use ICQ. Not even with a parent's permission. No one. Zip. It's because of the right-blocking law known as COPPA.

  23. #23
    Hi there! Owen's Avatar
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    Free food? I wish. Maybe, just maybe, your "village" had fireworks and free food to attract more potential home buyers? Let me quote from their site, "Just eighteen miles north of Chicago's Loop and hugging Lake Michigan's shoreline, Winnetka is located in the heart of one of the nation's most affluent retail markets. By offering quality, value, and personal service, Winnetka's business districts draw a sophisticated clientele, not only from Winnetka and its immediate neighbors but also from other affluent, upscale markets throughout the Chicago area."

    Your community ain't exactly statistically normal. In the last 2 years 44 houses above 1 million dollars sold in your city and out of the 6 neighbors of yours on your street, one home sold for 1.2 million, the rest for around 450,000 dollars. That puts you far into the affluent end and makes it easy for your community to afford an expensive show. I bet it is totally paid for by property taxes or such. (see bottom for URL) Isn't the internet wonderful?

    True, but I don't think that it cost $75,000 to hire police and fire men. But if you counter the costs with the number of people who pay to see them, I bet it costs very little.

    COPPA is gone. Dead. (Or dying.) It's shot down. Legislators changed their mind (and being unconstiutional helped.) It started because of conservatives who were scared of the Internet (Yahoo says your neighborhood is conservative...)

    My prediction was very close: "U.S. imports of fireworks totaled $93.0 million in 1997; most of this sum ($89.9 million) came from China. U.S. exports of fireworks, on the other hand, amounted to $6.2 million, with Canada the leading country of destination ($2.5 million)."

    At any rate, read this or even this.

    Now lets let this topic die like all good topics should.

    Owen

    [ Trying to get the link active... Oh well. Here it is out of the way. Be sure to get it all: ]Just Click here

    [This message has been edited by Owen (edited July 07, 2000).]


    [This message has been edited by wluke (edited July 08, 2000).]

  24. #24
    SitePoint Wizard
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    I have an urge to reply but I won't

    I meant COPA, my bad.

    Also...how did you find my address? Just wondering...it isn't listed in the online yellow pages anywhere...

  25. #25
    SitePoint Wizard TWTCommish's Avatar
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    I found your address in less than 20 seconds while simply searching for your domain on http://www.betterwhois.com



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