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  1. #26
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    Stevie D's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by anandsoft View Post
    The search engines have to provide most relevant results than just the new pages. The sites that are wholly dedicated to a particular subject (or area of specialization) and provide valuable info should be given more preference over other websites that cover several other subjects (covering several areas without much depth). At the same time, the number of pages is not necessarily a measure of quality.
    Again, why?

    Search engines should give people the pages that are the best match for what they're looking for. No more, no less. Google is not there to fulfil some arbitrary political goal, it's there to help people find information. If the consensus is that Wikipedia offers a better service to generic searches about famous people than more in-depth specialised sites, that is what Google will put at the top of the list. Like it or not, that's the bottom line.

  2. #27
    SitePoint Member williamjerry's Avatar
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    In my opinion Panda update is good for improvement of content. This will change scenario of search and people will get good results.

  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ted S View Post
    Google makes a lot of money but I've seen nothing solid to suggest that they dropped / impacted organic in favor of some paid listings or behind the scenes deals.
    I found it funny that shortly after I was relegated to the Google sandbox (which I have faced with every site I have ever created in the past 5.5 years) Google sends me an email trying to get me to buy advertising. My site is new and traffic builds over a few months then drops by 80% (or more) overnight at which time Google tries to get me to buy advertising at $0.10 per click.

    You think that's a coincidence? 90% or more of Google's profits come from advertising. Every visitor that you get for free from Google is a visitor you did not have to pay Google for. And Google knows it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stevie D View Post
    Google is in the business of trying to return the best page for any search term, based on content, relevance and popularity.
    Google is in the business of doing one thing: making money. Google and their shareholders will not be upset with inferior search results as long as the money keeps rolling in. Considering that Google makes most of its profits from advertising and its Adsense is on millions of websites, I don't know how important Google's advertising on its search results really is.

    But if you don't show up in the SERPs or don't rank well and want traffic, you have only one option: pay Google's hefty fees for it. If you don't rank well and don't get Google traffic, you can either pay Google or get by with no traffic from it.

    Quote Originally Posted by masm50 View Post
    I'm not surprised or alarmed that Wikipedia ranks #1 as it is the go-to place for looking up basic info on people or topics. As many errors as it contains, it is on the whole a pretty good starting place for general information...
    Exactly. And Wikipedia is not a commercial website. So even if the search engines do play favorites with it, it's not as if the ownership (is there any?) is making tons of money from it. It's purely an informational resource and that was what the internet was originally about even before pornography.

  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by cheesedude View Post
    You think that's a coincidence? 90% or more of Google's profits come from advertising. Every visitor that you get for free from Google is a visitor you did not have to pay Google for. And Google knows it.
    I sure do.

    It's a numbers game. Lots of advertisers and a few that spend a lot. Pitching random sites out to get a few hundred bucks isn't what makes you billions.

    Google makes money by delivering targeted traffic and that means having said traffic. If relevancy stinks they'll be gone as quick as altavista... which is why 80% of the page is devoted to, and the majority of clicks come from, organic results. Paying is the way to insure a return but it is not the whole game. Heck, many paid advertisers get booted out of AdWords terms for poor click thru rates and bad page relation. Relevancy is what makes their world go round.
    - Ted S

  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by cheesedude View Post
    Google is in the business of doing one thing: making money. Google and their shareholders will not be upset with inferior search results as long as the money keeps rolling in. Considering that Google makes most of its profits from advertising and its Adsense is on millions of websites, I don't know how important Google's advertising on its search results really is.
    The last numbers I saw indicated that it isn't just vital, it's the business.

    The numbers are about 18 months old but here's a nice chart. Adsense is part of the red slice under the giant blue bit: Google's 2009 Revenue Broken Down by Source - chris.topher hill's posterous
    - Ted S

  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by samanime View Post
    I think he was likely commenting on this aspect the most:


    Which you did hit on. However, I agree with him. Why? Should a website made all about Albert Einstein that was made by a 5 year old be given more weight than Wikipedia, just because it's all about Albert Einstein? I don't think there are any back room deals... Wikipedia just literally has the content to back it up.

    Sites like Wikipedia also don't always come up first. There are a number of terms where Wikipedia will be way down the list because there are better sites out there.
    If a search engine can't differentiate between a website that was made by a 5 yr old and the one made by a Ph.D, who's dedicated his/her efforts to Einstein studies, no comments.

    What is being suggested is that the one that is respected most and have in-depth coverage should get more prominence than a Wiki, irrespective of whether the site in question is commercial or informational.

  7. #32
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    Panda 2.2 has been a disaster for us as well as the first round of panda.

    With the first round we lost 37% and with 2.2 we lost around 15%.

    We have basically lost our long tail and some good search terms.

    I have noticed that Google likes brands much more than before, review and directory sites have been wipe out by SERP.

  8. #33
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    That was the intent (the directory thing). They devalued all of the inorganic directory links, which was the plan.

  9. #34
    SitePoint Enthusiast GreenIrene's Avatar
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    Google is currently good for a few things: Finding bizarre specialty combinations that nobody would do SEO for but someone has a site for (Finding the one website that specializes in X-Men themed Pineapple Sculptures) and finding a company website.

    The days when you can take a question or a random topic and find a good site are long gone. I'll miss them fondly, but they aren't coming back. Google favors large sites like Wikipedia and Brainy quote because it's currently the only safe way to avoid their first page being nothing but cheap foreign affiliate sites. Globalization and the SEO gold rush has ruined that aspect of the internet.

  10. #35
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    This happening because all these site having high page authority & popularity. These site has some reputation in Google's eye. that is the reason for them ranking high.

  11. #36
    SitePoint Wizard mcsolas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ted S View Post
    If people are self selecting Wikipedia as the top destination, doesn't that make it the most relevant result by the definition of the function of searching?
    I think your right here. Although, the sites listed just below is what is more concerning to me, do you think they are self selected as well? I always wondered how much google factors in user behavior in the rankings.

  12. #37
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    actually not all were affected... as long as you are doing a white hat seo

  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by buenasmichelle View Post
    actually not all were affected... as long as you are doing a white hat seo
    Beg to differ. It appears most of the sites that have anything to do with products/services/decision making (reviews) have been affected.
    Checkout the following thread:
    Is Panda actually the commercialization of the internet? Google SEO News and Discussion forum at WebmasterWorld

  14. #39
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    Here is my question: has anyone had trouble finding what they are looking for now? I sure haven't. Ignoring my own site, I either a) haven't noticed a change or b) have found it easier to find what I'm looking for.

    Google doesn't care one way or another about any specific site. They care about providing the best results for the people that use their search engines, because those are the people that click links, which earns them money. They also want the people clicking those links being valuable to the one providing the link, because that'll keep that advertiser coming back to give Google even more money. Simple.

    I don't think this means "the end of free traffic"... Google's indifferent to this one way or another as far as I can tell. It's all about the searches...

  15. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by samanime View Post
    Google doesn't care one way or another about any specific site. They care about providing the best results for the people that use their search engines, because those are the people that click links, which earns them money.
    Google earns tons of money from Adsense advertising which is not included on their search engine.

    Question: Are you more likely or less likely to click on an Adwords ad if you cannot find what you are looking for in the search results? If the results give you precisely what you are looking for, what possible reason would you have to click on a sponsored link???

    Quote Originally Posted by samanime View Post
    I don't think this means "the end of free traffic"... Google's indifferent to this one way or another as far as I can tell. It's all about the searches...
    Google makes nothing sending traffic for free. Google ONLY makes money from Adwords when webmasters cannot get organic traffic and have to resort to paying Google's high fees.

    Let's say you have a good quality website that gets good organic traffic from Google. All of a sudden for no reason, your Google traffic drops by 90%. Your options are to: 1) Wait it out and hope that Google smiles upon your site again and ranks you high, which may never happen; 2) Not have any traffic; 3) Pay Google's high fees for advertising so you may get some traffic from Google coming your way again.

    That's it. How come I get an email from Google trying to get me to sign up for advertising AFTER Google kills my traffic? Is that just coincidence that Google doesn't solicit advertising until after it kills your traffic?

  16. #41
    om nom nom nom Stomme poes's Avatar
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    Aren't sites already using Adsense etc also getting hit? In which case, they already paid for advertising.

    Let's say you have a good quality website that gets good organic traffic from Google. All of a sudden for no reason, your Google traffic drops by 90%. Your options are to: 1) Wait it out and hope that Google smiles upon your site again and ranks you high, which may never happen; 2) Not have any traffic; 3) Pay Google's high fees for advertising so you may get some traffic from Google coming your way again.
    A website is not successful in my book if it cannot sustain itself without Google.

    Similarly,
    a plumbing service is not successful in my book if it cannot sustain itself without the telephone book.

    But this is just my opinion. And I do realise many sites have "products" or whatever that people don't need regularly (like emergency plumbing services) and so the repeat-customer thing isn't something everyone can have, but still...

    I also wonder if the forever-scroll setup Google's starting (which DDG has had since I ferget) will reduce the make-or-break effect of "no longer on first page", since people may scroll further and see beyond the "first page" when still more interesting results appear, whereas now people may tend not to click "2" or "next" today.

  17. #42
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    If u cope up well and follow up with the google webmasters guidelines, then for sure , your site will automatically rank up. Obviously user site is more prefered these days by google, as sharing posts and commenting and this social media platform is also give more importance.

  18. #43
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    Panda updates have really made tough for a site to reach to the top in the search engine rankings. Every blog says something else. I was highly confused. This is the reason I love forums because active users share there comments for highly confused people like me and make me feel lighter after going through even half of the posts. Thank you all !

  19. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreenIrene View Post
    The days when you can take a question or a random topic and find a good site are long gone. I'll miss them fondly, but they aren't coming back. Google favors large sites like Wikipedia and Brainy quote because it's currently the only safe way to avoid their first page being nothing but cheap foreign affiliate sites. Globalization and the SEO gold rush has ruined that aspect of the internet.
    You may be right. But is it not the value addition that a Search Engine is supposed to do? (distinguishing an affiliate site or spam site from that of a genuine niche site)

    Here is an interesting topic being discussed at WW:
    Brandspam - Google's new challenge? Google SEO News and Discussion forum at WebmasterWorld

    It is opined that a lot of rubbish sites have disappeared after Panda, and at the same time lot of niche sites have lost their rankings and taken over by branded sites, labelled as "brandspam"

    The bottom line for a successful search engine is that they need to provide useful information that the visitor doesn't have already!! If they work as gateways to branded sites search, search engines will soon loose their relevance on the Web, and probably the niche sites too.

  20. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by cheesedude View Post
    Is that just coincidence that Google doesn't solicit advertising until after it kills your traffic?
    Yes.

    Many sites who never saw organic traffic get adwords promotions.

    Many sites who advertise now get them [targeting issues].

    And many sites who have never advertised remain well ranked.

    Google advertises all over with lots of behavoiral messaging... merely searching around for an answer on why your traffic dropped is enough to get a cookie set and start the ads up.

    I've never seen more than suspicion to suggest Google was gaming the system and to be quite frank, given Google's revenue, the small guys aren't worth it -- if they were to play this game it would be aimed at sites with serious traffic ad ad budgets which I have definitely not seen issues for.
    - Ted S

  21. #46
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    Google estimates that they implement approximately 500 algorithm changes every year. Unlike the other 499 changes, Panda impacted approximately 12% of all Google organic search results making it a really big deal.

  22. #47
    SitePoint Member Annalou's Avatar
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    Can you give me any advice on how to 'De-Pandalize' articles? I try to write good quality content, but still......

  23. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Annalou View Post
    Can you give me any advice on how to 'De-Pandalize' articles? I try to write good quality content, but still......
    Write an article and publish it once. Keep one original article on your site and try to get people to link to it (maybe with a teaser paragraph but no more) ... don't splatter the full article all over the internet. If you find anyone stealing your article and re-using it without your permission, follow it up with a 'cease and desist' notice. Make sure your articles are different from what's already out there ... and that doesn't mean just using different words to get the same topic across, make sure there's something genuinely new.

  24. #49
    SitePoint Member Annalou's Avatar
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    Thanks very much Stevie. I wonder if somewhere online there's a 'cease and desist' proforma email one can use? Must look into that!


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