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  1. #1
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    Three level deep website directory explanation needed

    At the moment, I just have my website as homepage plus second level pages.
    I upload everything in PUBLIC_HTML using PageBreeze and every page I add becomes a "subdirectory" from the "root directory".
    How do I create pages UNDERNEATH an existing page?

    What I want to make is:

    homepage (boiler-breakdown-repair-london.co.uk)

    Viessmann boilers

    Viessmann boiler repair . viessmann boiler install . viessmann boiler service




    I have done a fair bit of searching, but can't find it. Probably means it is either extremely easy or very difficult. {fingers crossed emoticon}

    My hosting company is UnitedHosting.

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    Quote Originally Posted by benbob View Post
    every page I add becomes a "subdirectory" from the "root directory".
    No, not really. A subdirectory is a folder within the root directory.

    So, all of this is done with folders within folders. To create a URL like this:

    boiler-breakdown-repair-london.co.uk/viessmann-boiler-repair/viessmann-boiler-install/viessmann-boiler-service/

    (notice that you should never have a space in a URL, hence the hyphens) you need a folder in the root directory (home folder) called /viessmann-boiler-repair/. Inside that you need a folder called /viessmann-boiler-install/. Inside that you have another folder called /viessmann-boiler-service/. In that folder, you have a page (say index.html) that contains the information about "viessmann boiler service". Also, you don't need to keep repeating the word viessmann.

    As a side note, if you want the "viessmann boiler service" page to be at this URL:

    boiler-breakdown-repair-london.co.uk/viessmann-boiler-repair/viessmann-boiler-install/viessmann-boiler-service/

    (with no page.html at the end), name the "viessmann boiler service" page index.html. (The browser doesn't need to add index.html to the URL, so it's neater that way.) The alternative is to name the page something like viessmann-boiler-service.html, in which case the URL with be

    boiler-breakdown-repair-london.co.uk/viessmann-boiler-repair/viessmann-boiler-install/viessmann-boiler-service/viessmann-boiler-service.html

    To be honest, that is all getting way too long. Generally, try to avoid going this deep in your URL structures.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by ralph.m View Post
    So, all of this is done with folders within folders. To create a URL like this:

    boiler-breakdown-repair-london.co.uk/viessmann-boiler-repair/viessmann-boiler-install/viessmann-boiler-service/
    I have tried something like that, but couldn't upload it in that form. It probably sounds pretty dumb, but I have no idea how to actually get that structure on the server.

    Quote Originally Posted by ralph.m View Post
    you need a folder in the root directory (home folder) called /viessmann-boiler-repair/.
    Following that structure in the way I envision it, it would be:

    boiler-breakdown-repair-london.co.uk/viessmann-boilers/.
    followed by 3 pages "at the same level" i.e. all 3 directly coming of the viessmann/boilers page like this:
    B-B-R-L/viessmann-boilers/viessmann-boilers-install/, B-B-R-L/viessmann-boilers/viessmann-boilers-service, B-B-R-L/viessmann-boilers/viessmann-boilers-repair

    Quote Originally Posted by ralph.m View Post
    Inside that you need a folder called /viessmann-boiler-install/. Inside that you have another folder called /viessmann-boiler-service/.
    If I put the folder /viessmann-boiler-service/ inside the folder /viessmann-boiler-install/ would the install page not come from the "service" page instead of the "viessmann" page?

    Quote Originally Posted by ralph.m View Post
    In that folder, you have a page (say index.html) that contains the information about "viessmann boiler service".
    Is it possible to avoid calling any other page index, apart from my "real index" page? To keep thins simple for myself ( I am still very green when it comes to site building ) I store the pages on my computer under exactly the same name as they appear on the web.

    Quote Originally Posted by ralph.m View Post
    Also, you don't need to keep repeating the word viessmann.
    Like above, unless there is a big problem with repeatinig viessmann, I really prefer doing it that way. The viessmann example is just a first attempt. Once that is in place, I will create many more strucutres like that for different makes and systems. If I don't include the make in the page title, I will lose the plot about which page is what boiler.
    As I am still learning, I upgrade, add and change things on a regular basis and will need to be able to match what is on my computer with what is on the server both fast and without mistake.
    At this stage, I can't afford to be worried about conforming to "good programming rules". I am a heating engineer that suddenly found himself forced to do his own website building. As long as it works in a stable manner, I am happy.
    Once I have learned how to make it work, I will spend time on learning how to program things "the way it should" and do the next website properly. Promise.

    Quote Originally Posted by ralph.m View Post
    As a side note, if you want the "viessmann boiler service" page to be at this URL:

    boiler-breakdown-repair-london.co.uk/viessmann-boiler-repair/viessmann-boiler-install/viessmann-boiler-service/

    (with no page.html at the end), name the "viessmann boiler service" page index.html. (The browser doesn't need to add index.html to the URL, so it's neater that way.) The alternative is to name the page something like viessmann-boiler-service.html, in which case the URL with be

    boiler-breakdown-repair-london.co.uk/viessmann-boiler-repair/viessmann-boiler-install/viessmann-boiler-service/viessmann-boiler-service.html

    To be honest, that is all getting way too long. Generally, try to avoid going this deep in your URL structures.
    My plan is to no deeper than 3 levels unless really "necessary".

    boiler-breakdown-repair-london.co.uk/viessmann-boilers.html
    This page has info about the company e.g. origin, size, location, reputation, but nothing about install/repair/service.

    boiler-breakdown-repair-london.co.uk/viessmann-boilers/viessmann-boiler-install.html

    boiler-breakdown-repair-london.co.uk/viessmann-boilers/viessmann-boiler-service.html

    boiler-breakdown-repair-london.co.uk/viessmann-boilers/viessmann-boiler-repair.html

    boiler-breakdown-repair-london.co.uk/Vaillant-boilers/Vaillant-boiler-install.html

    boiler-breakdown-repair-london.co.uk/Vaillant-boilers.html

    And so on e.g Condensing boiler etcc. Combi boilers etc Open Flue boilers etc.


    I am pretty good at what I do for a living, and for the coming year, I want to use my abillity to write about what I know at length,and present that in a way that is easy to follow for the reader to compensate for my lack of website presentation skills. Even though my site looks very tatty, the feedback is very good.

    Many thanks for your elaborate answers.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by benbob View Post
    I have tried something like that, but couldn't upload it in that form. It probably sounds pretty dumb, but I have no idea how to actually get that structure on the server.
    You need a program like Dreamweaver, which lets you create folders and files within one another. Then you upload them

    Following that structure in the way I envision it, it would be …
    OK, I see what you are doing now.

    So, create a folder in your text editor (like Dreamweaver or a free alternative), then put those three pages in it with a .html extension (or create each one as a separate folder and call each page index.html for neater URLs, as I mentioned above.

    If I put the folder /viessmann-boiler-service/ inside the folder /viessmann-boiler-install/ would the install page not come from the "service" page instead of the "viessmann" page?
    The install page would be in the install folder. You could just call it index.html, and then go to /viessmann-boiler-service/viessmann-boiler-install/ in your browser to call it up.

    Is it possible to avoid calling any other page index, apart from my "real index" page?
    Yes. But calling each one index.html in its own folder makes for neature URLs. It's up to you. Make sure to have an index.html file in each folder, even if you don't use it, to prevent someone from peeking inside the folder.

    To keep thins simple for myself ( I am still very green when it comes to site building ) I store the pages on my computer under exactly the same name as they appear on the web.
    Just make sure not to allow any gaps (so don't use gaps on your computer). Gaps on the web in URLs are not allowed, so they will be replaced with ugly symbols.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by ralph.m View Post
    You need a program like Dreamweaver, which lets you create folders and files within one another. Then you upload them

    OK, I see what you are doing now.

    So, create a folder in your text editor (like Dreamweaver or a free alternative), then put those three pages in it with a .html extension (or create each one as a separate folder and call each page index.html for neater URLs, as I mentioned above.
    This is part of the challenge. I use PageBreeze to correct lay out e.g. button positioning, but that is it. I tried several html editors, and I didn't like any of them. They produce far too much crap, and never let me do exactly what I want.
    The majority of my stuff is written in Wordpad, even MS Word produces a lot of crap these days as soon as it gets the idea the document is html.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by ralph.m View Post
    Is it possible to avoid calling any other page index, apart from my "real index" page?
    Yes. But calling each one index.html in its own folder makes for neature URLs. It's up to you.
    I much prefer to avoid anything that could potentially be confusing, and more than one index file definitely would be.
    To be honest, I've only been doing this for three months, ( on the side of my job and a bit of social life ) so I am not particularly interested in whether or not it complies with Proper Programming Procedure. Only two things count: making it work, and keeping it understandable for me without spending ages on learning the next step.

    Quote Originally Posted by ralph.m View Post
    Make sure to have an index.html file in each folder, even if you don't use it, to prevent someone from peeking inside the folder.
    At the moment, my entire site is visible for anyone who wants to have a look. Am I at great risk of something dreadful?

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by benbob View Post
    I tried several html editors, and I didn't like any of them. They produce far too much crap even MS Word produces a lot of crap these days as soon as it gets the idea the document is html.
    There are many code editors out there, and some include WYSIWYG (what you see is what you get) tools which are better left alone. The best thing is to work in code, then nothing is added but what you type. Word, indeed, is not a proper code editor, and should be avoided like the plague.

    Quote Originally Posted by benbob View Post
    At the moment, my entire site is visible for anyone who wants to have a look. Am I at great risk of something dreadful?
    No, not at all. It just produces ugly results if someone points their browser at a folder that doesn't have an index page in it. (You get an ugly folder view.) It's only a security problem if you don't want people to see some of what's contained in that folder, though.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by ralph.m View Post
    If I put the folder /viessmann-boiler-service/ inside the folder /viessmann-boiler-install/ would the install page not come from the "service" page instead of the "viessmann" page?
    The install page would be in the install folder. You could just call it index.html, and then go to /viessmann-boiler-service/viessmann-boiler-install/ in your browser to call it up.
    I sort of got that far; easy enough to create a folder viessmann-boilers/viessmann-boiler-install/ with viessmann-boilers/viessmann-boiler-install/.html in this directory on my computer.
    Now where I stumble is: how do I actually get that on the server in such a way that it shows on the web as a page UNDERNEATH b-b-r-L/viessmann-boilers? b-b-r-l/viessman-boilers folder would only have one html file in it, and 3 folders: /viessmann-boilers-install, viessmann-boilers-repair, and viessmann-boilers-service
    And all this without using any other index-file other than the root version.

    For several reasons, even though it may sound odd, it is important to me that whatever I do on the site, can be done without specific software bar Filezilla, e.g. if it can't be done in Wordpad but requires Dreamweaver, it's no good to me ( and even files can be moved by just using Windows if really need be, it's just too much of a pain in the proverbial )

    ps
    Got my facts mixed up earlier. I use Filezilla for moving files and PageBreeze (simple graphic html editor ) for altering pages. PageBreeze will be ditched completely as soon as I have figured out how to do the last bits of coding by hand.

    You're probably sorry you ever tried to answer me in the first place.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by ralph.m View Post
    There are many code editors out there, and some include WYSIWYG (what you see is what you get) tools which are better left alone. The best thing is to work in code, then nothing is added but what you type. Word, indeed, is not a proper code editor, and should be avoided like the plague.

    No, not at all. It just produces ugly results if someone points their browser at a folder that doesn't have an index page in it. (You get an ugly folder view.) It's only a security problem if you don't want people to see some of what's contained in that folder, though.
    Glad to hear that. I am happy to learn the real thing and use wordpad or even notepad to do my writing. Apart from being much smaller and quicker to load, it is also a lot easier to "repair" if something somehow goes wrong.

    As for the ugly link, it will be ugly on their site, not on mine; not my problem

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by benbob View Post
    easy enough to create a folder viessmann-boilers/viessmann-boiler-install/ with viessmann-boilers/viessmann-boiler-install/.html in this directory on my computer. Now where I stumble is: how do I actually get that on the server in such a way that it shows on the web as a page UNDERNEATH b-b-r-L/viessmann-boilers? b-b-r-l/viessman-boilers folder would only have one html file in it, and 3 folders: /viessmann-boilers-install, viessmann-boilers-repair, and viessmann-boilers-service
    And all this without using any other index-file other than the root version.
    There's a problem with your terminology here, so I need to clarify what you are asking.

    Firstly, this is not viable:
    viessmann-boilers/viessmann-boiler-install/.html

    I'm not sure if that was a typo or if there is a misunderstanding here.

    Basically, there are two items at play here: folders and pages. In the url, a folder will look like this:

    /viessmann-boilers/

    and a page will look like this

    viessmann-boiler-install.html

    (in other words, a file or page ends with .html).

    So, let's say you want a page called viessmann-boiler-install.html inside a folder called /viessmann-boilers/.

    In that case, create the folder, and inside it place the file called viessmann-boiler-install.html. If that folder is in your root folder, you point to the page like this:

    mysite.com/viessmann-boilers/viessmann-boiler-install.html

    Speak in terms of items within items, rather that one item being "beneath" another (which doesn't mean much in this context).

    if it can't be done in Wordpad but requires Dreamweaver, it's no good to me
    They are both code editors, so there's no real difference. As a code editor, Dw just has a few buttons that helps you write the code a tad faster, that's all. It's just the same code, though—not a jot of difference.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by ralph.m View Post
    There's a problem with your terminology here, so I need to clarify what you are asking.

    Firstly, this is not viable:
    viessmann-boilers/viessmann-boiler-install/.html

    I'm not sure if that was a typo or if there is a misunderstanding here.
    Yes, at least one typo, plus poor terminology.

    More accurate explanation of what I want:

    mysite.com/viessmann-boilers.html ( this page is actually directly in public_html, like all my pages are at the moment )
    This page will have general info about the company and brand as such. The page will be visible as a direct link ( button ) on my home page.

    3 pages visible as a direct link from mysite.com/viessmann-boilers.html ( I imagine in the folder mysite.com/viessmann-boilers/ ) but NOT visible from the homepage:
    Viessmann-boilers-install.html in the folder mysite.com/viessmann-boilers/
    Viessmann-boilers-repairs.html, also in the folder mysite.com/viessmann-boilers/
    Viessmann-boilers-servicing.html, also in the folder mysite.com/viessmann-boilers/

    I appreciate it is an abomination in the eyes of a proper programmer, but for several reasons, that is the structure I would like.

    1.It will allow me to keep track of what is what when I have 100+ pages that will all be variations of a handful of themes.
    2.It is a way of streamlining visitors' movements. I have visited plenty of large websites myself, and more often than not I find them very confusing to navigate and can't find what I am looking for despite being 100% sure that it is actually on that particular site.
    At the moment, every single page I have comes directly from my homepage, and with a planned 100+ pages, that is none too clever either
    3.I have it from more than one very reliable source that it has massive seo advantages if you care to use them.

  12. #12
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    The structure is fine, really. The only thing I would recommend doing differently is moving

    mysite.com/viessmann-boilers.html

    to

    mysite.com/viessmann-boilers/index.html

    It's more logical to have the main boilers page in the boilers folder. That makes for better site orgainization. Preferably, organize everything into floders so that the root folder keeps tidy.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by ralph.m View Post
    The structure is fine, really. The only thing I would recommend doing differently is moving

    mysite.com/viessmann-boilers.html

    to

    mysite.com/viessmann-boilers/index.html

    It's more logical to have the main boilers page in the boilers folder. That makes for better site orgainization. Preferably, organize everything into floders so that the root folder keeps tidy.
    Well, I would if I could, but that does require finding out how to get these folders on the server without the help of dreamweaver or the likes.

    I have created that structure on my computer's harddrive, but I could not upload it that way.
    $64,000 question: how do I upload/create those folders on the server with only the use of Filezilla?

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    With FileZilla, you can drag and drop those files, upload them or create them directly on the server itself. Probably safest for you with not being overly confident is to upload them.

    Which might mean double clicking on the public_html folder within the 'Remote site:' window (to select).

    Then on the window below your 'Local site' selecting the folders you want, dragging them to public_html on the 'Remote site:' window and it will copy the file structure and upload all the files within those directories.

    Just make sure you have the correct folders open on the 'Remote site:' panes to get them where exactly you want in the folder/directory hierarchy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by xhtmlcoder View Post
    With FileZilla, you can drag and drop those files...
    It's not the files I have a problem with, it is getting the folder structure on the server.

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    I meant 'folders' and files; it be exactly same procedure for both. If you have the directory nested how you want already on the computer.

    Just select the top level/root folder you want to upload and it will build the exact same folder hierarchy at the place you tell it to on the server.

    You can also drag-and-drop between the 'Remote site:' panes to move directories like with Windows Explorer on the server itself but obviously take extra care with doing that and only move your own work/files/folders within the public_html directory.

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    I will try that again, but last time folders did not appear on the server, only files moved.

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    Robert Wellock silver trophybronze trophy xhtmlcoder's Avatar
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    Maybe the server was slow at updating or refreshing the windows? If that fails you can 'right click' on the lower 'Remote site:' pane and select 'Create directory' from the mouse context menu and type what name you want. It should then create a directory on the server itself within the folder you have open (public_html).

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    Sometimes I find these programs can be a bit flaky about uploading an empty folder. But if you put the file in the folder on your machine and then upload them both, it works.

    So you have several options. Once you get this working (and it should be easy) you won't look back.

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    It may well be that the empty directory was the problem. As I am not exactly a seasoned programmer, I make the steps as small as possible so if it goes wrong, I know where to look for the cause.
    Will try this approach hopefully later today.
    I am now working as fast as I can to upgrade my pages with half decent buttons. Most of my pages looked really bad with the button images lost. Found today that my site is featured, so expect loads more traffic. Can't afford to make a bad impression, so suddenly the looks have become an urgent subject.

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    Ah well, if you need help with button styling or anything, feel free to ask in the CSS forum. It's a very active place.

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    Thanks, will do that when this rush job is done.
    Don't use css either though, I prefer to only add/change those things on a page that I feel need doing and keep the rest as they are. My site is boring enough as it is ( predominantly spooning out dry facts ) even though people find it very helpful, so the more diversity the better.

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    Quote Originally Posted by benbob View Post
    Don't use css
    Wow, that sounds cool. I'd love to do an HTML-only site.

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    I used to be a cadcam programmer in the days when there wasn't even an official course for it. No interfaces in those days, pure machine code for very basic 8-bit processors and storage measured in kilobytes. It was there that I really learned how rubbish compilers are.
    Later on, you got the interfaces followed by what was known as "dialogue systems" which were similar in set up to wysiwyg html editors. Whenever I got a program made by one of these for a repeat order project, I could easily knock off 20% of the production time and improve tool life at the same time. When machines write off half a million per year, 20% time gain is a lot of money.

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    Robert Wellock silver trophybronze trophy xhtmlcoder's Avatar
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    He uses an editor since there is CSS and FONT within those pages and other tell-tale signs but it's quite true that people visit sites for content and not always fancy design.


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