Hybrid & Electric Cars - Are they better then normal cars for the environment?

[Stormrider]

If you can't afford electric, how on earth will you afford Hydrogen?

[awasson]

If you can't afford electric, how on earth will you afford Hydrogen?

Yeah, I was thinking the same thing.... Hydrogen although providing the cleanest emissions is extremely costly to process as a fuel source.

The best off the grid story I read was an article about a solar powered house (built in Boston I think) where the solar energy was used to produce hydrogen that was stored in another building and the hydrogen was used to fuel a fuel-cell that powered the house. Super cool but as I recall the system cost $250,000 (USD) to build.

Another alternative fuel is compressed air... In India Tata motors was building compressed air cars. The emissions are air Here's a link to a Wikipedia page: Compressed air car - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Also I've been seeing a few Tesla cars on the road.

[Stormrider]

Not seen any Teslas over here, but I know there are some in the UK. There are just over 1000 roadsters I think, but it was never meant to be a big seller - just to keep them going until the Model S was ready to be built. Tesla announced yesterday or the day before that they are ending production of the roadster to concentrate on the Model S anyway, which should be a better seller.

[mikestax]

Good Question.

I have no idea what hydrogen does or will cost. Now if I set my house up on solar power, I could probably use the excess to fuel my electric car.

I have not done alot of research on this and you guys definitely know more than I do about it. I do know my PG&E bill is over $250 a month just using fluorescent bulbs, low e appliances, and doing laundry once a week. So having to add a car - may be too high for me.

We shall see.

[Stormrider]

The Honda FCX Clarity Top Gear reviewed was something in the order of £250,000 I believe

[awasson]

it is the future when oil finishes everwhere will be electric cars....Just imagine how it is gonna look.

It might look a bit like the trial they tried in Japan: http://worldblog.msnbc.msn.com/_news...-electric-cars

[Stormrider]

The Charging Point » Robert

[awasson]

Here's an odd take on the battery problem: Multi Fuel Internal Combustion Electromechanical Batteries – Got That?

This is a charging station that just opened up near me (the page will resize your browser.... sorry): Free plug

[techmichelle]

Its all relative. There is NO perfect answer, we are people :-) lets take a town that says we need to have safer walk ways, so they change all the intersections to the designed safer walk ways. Only the new design drastically increases road rage. Ultimately making things LESS safe. Oops, We do need a better system so we don't need to use so much gas. We do need better recycling. We do need a way to generate power at the point of use.

I live in two areas, one you can heat your house run your lights etc from electricity for next to nothing. But I have to put up with high power transmission lines, :-P. The other place well, you turn off the lights if you leave a room for a minute.

Me I am watching the development of solar and wind at home closely. They have a new wind turbine I would like to install on my barn :-) windtronics.com

I do think less government and less short term stock tricks would help companies go with the best long term strategies. Depending on location, those strategies do change.

Me? keeping my gas for now.

[deathshadow60]

I live in two areas, one you can heat your house run your lights etc from electricity for next to nothing. But I have to put up with high power transmission lines, :-P. The other place well, you turn off the lights if you leave a room for a minute.

Which I think illustrates one of the biggest issues I was talking about... what's practical in one region may not be practical in another. As you implied, there's never going to be a one size fits all solution.

Me I am watching the development of solar and wind at home closely. They have a new wind turbine I would like to install on my barn :-) windtronics.com

Well, hopefully unlike around here, you won't spend for it, put it up, and then have the dirty hippies eco-nuts protesting out in your front yard about it endangering some damned species or another like they do here every time someone tries to put up a windmill or dam.

I do think less government and less short term stock tricks would help companies go with the best long term strategies.

... and you can blame the right wing-nuts and the leftist moon-bats for that one; they seem to have this bizarre notion that government intervention can actually help situations -- given the track record of such interventions it is really hard to figure where that delusion came from.

Depending on location, those strategies do change.

EXACTLY.

[teammate]

Hydrogen is the energy of future and at present the production, storage and transportation cost of it is quite high and the research in this area will bring the cost down. I hope by next 8-10 years, we will see many cars running on hydrogen.

[Stormrider]

Hydrogen is the energy of future and at present the production, storage and transportation cost of it is quite high and the research in this area will bring the cost down. I hope by next 8-10 years, we will see many cars running on hydrogen.

But what is the point of taking one energy source (electricity), using it to convert water into hydrogen + oxygen, using fuel & resources to store the hydrogen then ship it elsewhere, then have a fuel cell to convert it back into electricity to use in an electric motor - all losing efficiency at each stage. Would it not make sense to just pump the electricity straight into the car then straight into the motors?

[awasson]

Guys, the electric car was ready 25 years ago. Chevy built the EV1. The people who used it loved it but it was a lease vehicle and Chevy in cahoots with big oil pulled the plug on it and pulled all the vehicles back in. In one case the Lessor was relinquished of their car when they pulled in to get a dash light replaced. There was no way to buy the car it was lease only.

Here's the kicker... Chevy sold the patent for the battery to Chevron. Chevron sits on the patent and sues anyone who comes up with the same technique.

The EV1 story: GM, Chevron and CARB killed the NiMH EV once, will do so again

The patent and how it is used to stifle innovation: Patent encumbrance of large automotive NiMH batteries - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

There is a lot of BS surrounding electric cars and if you check the sources you'll find that it all circles back to Big Oil protecting their antiquated business model. Fortunately the patent runs out this year at some point so I'm hoping that the automakers can jump back on this and make useful electric cars.


The EV1 had 140 Mile range on a charge 25 years ago... Imagine what they could do with another 25 years of development

[techmichelle]

Here's the kicker... Chevy sold the patent for the battery to Chevron. Chevron sits on the patent and sues anyone who comes up with the same technique.

Patent reform something we could all benefit from

[Stormrider]

Guys, the electric car was ready 25 years ago.

25? Longer than that... Henry Ford had an electric Model T Ford, with a bigger range than the petrol versions.

[awasson]

Oh we can go further back than ford but I was looking at electric cars that could compete in today's market.

In 1985 the EV1 was competitive and it was squashed. Had it been allowed to persist just imagine how it would have evolved. Look at how our everyday devices have evolved since then (including cars) and just imagine how much better EV cars would be.

[Stormrider]

Indeed, it is the oil companies spreading propaganda about it all so they can stay using their old business model, instead of seeing how they can expand their business into other areas. With all the money they make, just imagine how much investment they could put into an electric infrastructure... but they just can't work out how to monetise it (read: rip people off) so they aren't interested!

[awasson]

Yup, I think you're right about that. From my point of view I see a broad financial opportunity for the EV business but I suppose from an "Oil" position there isn't any incentive when they make tens of thousands of dollars off of every dollar they invest.

So if you look at it from their position, any movement in the alternate fuel subject is a direct threat on life as they know it. It really is a war that is being waged between "big oil" and anyone who wants to get the world off of oil.

[techmichelle]

Saw this article hmmm.
Solar-powered charging: a step towards zero-emissions driving | SmartPlanet

A way to collect almost directly to the car. :-)

[Stormrider]

Yup. There is someone in this country who has a wind turbine on his roof I think, and charges his Tesla Roadster using it - free fuel effectively!

[chrisranjana]

I'm not sure how much lithium is going to be used in electric cars/battery etc but Lithium Abundance - World Lithium Reserve: China china has abundant lithium. So I really hope that the same dependence on arab countries for oil is NOT repeated by going electric and should not depend on china for lithium !

[awasson]

I'm not sure how much lithium is going to be used in electric cars/battery etc but Lithium Abundance - World Lithium Reserve: China china has abundant lithium. So I really hope that the same dependence on arab countries for oil is NOT repeated by going electric and should not depend on china for lithium !

I don't thing we need to worry about that... There are a lot of rare earth metals in the mud on the ocean floor: rare earch metals in deep oceans - Google Search

[hugerewards]

go to the Middle East or Africa that's a whole different story.

[muncher123]

Go Green! Your car may not be as fun or fast but your helping OUR planet.

[autoinfoz09]

Yes they are better ! But these are not only excuse to raise the demand of Hybrid & Electric Cars In the world because all the country except USA & Europe....there are so many other country who have not such a capacity to afford the the luxury car prices and all....