SitePoint Sponsor

User Tag List

Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 123
Results 51 to 55 of 55
  1. #51
    SitePoint Evangelist tetsuo shima's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Switzerland
    Posts
    597
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    As a maniac spf lurker, I must say it's one of the most interesting threads I've came across in a long time.

    I'm Swiss. I'm a designer. As you can guess, types and grids are all I need in this world.

    But... When I explain my point to clients, believe me, I always end up feeling like a failure (oh well, ok, I am). They want all that web 2.0 stuff. (I hadn't written "web 2.0" in a long while. This "expression" is absolutely embarrassing). They want jQuery, and transitions (vendor-specific code used to scare me) and whatnot. They want so many things that used to get me depressed that I sometimes considered quitting this career. Even started using a .ie6 class on my <html> tag. Thanks html5boilerplate.

    So I decided to embrace it all. I'm now into 320 and Up, and it doesn't feel that bad in the end. It feels pragmatic. Very modern. Just had to swallow the four different sizes of apple icons a client asked me for.

    Purists always starve, don't they? Oh wait, do I see a guy on a horse coming at me?

    t.
    The SEO Faq thread
    Dependency injection made easy: Phemto

  2. #52
    SitePoint Zealot
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    119
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Web 2.0? Is that this thing with the thumbs up and down and "i like it" button?

  3. #53
    Non-Member bronze trophy
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Keene, NH
    Posts
    3,760
    Mentioned
    23 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Glasspoole View Post
    Web 2.0? Is that this thing with the thumbs up and down and "i like it" button?
    Ok, that was entertaining.

  4. #54
    SitePoint Wizard bronze trophy
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Augusta, Georgia, United States
    Posts
    4,147
    Mentioned
    16 Post(s)
    Tagged
    3 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by adrian_schmidt
    Why so much hate in this thread? And why do the moderators accept it?
    Things you need to know about deathshadow60:

    Quote Originally Posted by transio
    1. If you use jQuery, you are a moron in his opinion
    2. If you use an MVC framework to generate code, you are responsible for 100% of the HTML it outputs
    3. If your website uses more than 100k of bandwidth in total, you are a wastrel
    4. Rich user experiences are meaningless. Anything that uses javascript or images to enhance the UI is a waste of time in deathshadow's opinion
    5. People don't matter. All that matters is perfect degradation.
    However, if you live in the real world you will soon realize that while many of these things are important its always a give and take relationship. When your not building a small little site there are more important things to concern yourself with. For example, using something like Joomla or Drupal it would not be practical to rewrite all modules to use semantic mark-up, if possible at all for the more powerful modules. JQuery pretty much makes JavaScript what it should have been all along. Many people would rather wait an extra millisecond than see a bare bone web presence then one lacking all personality and the "coolness" factor. Bandwidth is cheap, unless your running a 56K modem… I mean give me a break. The reason why technology advances is so that we can do more in the first place without efficiency becoming an issue. Call it wasteful or whatever but really its progress. In regards to degradation Google has no problem dropping support for certain browsers and sites such as facebook are completely worthless without JavaScript, so while graceful degradation is important to an extent it can depend on situation and budget. The web like the world will never be ideal certain sacrifices are always necessary. Now, that isn't to say deathshadow60 is providing incorrect information just ideal and ideal is never practical. Making sacrifices along the way to maintain certain best practices and goals while others may fall beyond is all part of the game.
    The only code I hate more than my own is everyone else's.

  5. #55
    Non-Member bronze trophy
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Keene, NH
    Posts
    3,760
    Mentioned
    23 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by oddz View Post
    Things you need to know about deathshadow60
    ... and Which is funny since only 1 through 3 are truly accurate. (#3, that's 140k thank you very much)

    See, #4 is just sour grapes from the people who either don't understand what I'm saying, or just are too damned lazy to do the job properly. I'm against WASTEFUL poorly used implementations of those technologies, not the technologies themselves. Javascript enhancement isn't a bad thing -- javascript enhancement that gets in the way, takes forever to load, doesn't gracefully degrade when scripting isn't available or if the user doesn't want it is... Images, pretty images -- are not a bad thing, you can HAVE those... But you shouldn't blow 300k of images to do 30k's JOB. Especially when in many cases those 30k images look nearly identical and don't lock you into crappy fixed width inaccessible layouts that break if anyone dares to use a non-standard font-size. I'm getting sick of seeing 150k images that are only 150k because photoshop wouldn't know an optimized image from the hole in it's DVD. I'm getting sick of seeing cryptic convoluted 60k javascripts relying on MULTIPLE 100K libraries to do what should only take 4-6k of javascript to actually accomplish!!! THAT'S WHAT I'm TALKING ABOUT!!!

    Which is what #5 is all about -- making the page USEFUL to visitors -- PEOPLE. Coding it and building it so PEOPLE CAN USE IT. Making it and building it so that when it gets real traffic people can continue to use it and you don't bankrupt the people paying to host it...

    How the devil is that saying "people don't matter"?!? Lands sake, graceful degradation is supposed to be there SO PEOPLE CAN {nastiest expletive in my vocabulary omitted} USE IT!!!

    The people who basically say all the stuff I'm talking about doesn't matter -- those are the ones saying people don't count, just their goofy gee ain't it neat flashy bull that has no substance whatsoever and in most cases boils down to a gallon of shellac on a pile.... No matter how much you shine it after that's still a turd.

    I think that's what's torquing me off the most about certain posters of late -- they seem to think I'm saying flat text with no pretty images -- I'm not saying you can't have that; I'm saying don't piss all over yourself and your work with inept piss poor site building techniques that result in half a megabyte or more sites that could be built nearly identical in a fifth that if you took the time to not just vomit up your sites any old way like it's still 1997.


Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •