Style sheet query

[rockerz]

Hello, below is my style sheet.
The links work fine, hover colour, visited etc

My query is: what do we write to make the default text Verdana and not Times New Roman? I thought the part in bold would do this??
Thanks

BODY { FONT-FAMILY: verdana;
FONT-SIZE: 10pt;
COLOR: #333333}

TABLE, TD { FONT-FAMILY: verdana;
FONT-SIZE: 10pt;
COLOR: #333333}

A { FONT-SIZE: 10pt;
COLOR: #003399;
FONT-FAMILY: verdana;
TEXT-DECORATION: none }

A:HOVER{ color:#FF0000; text-decoration: underline}
A:VISITED {color: #9400D3;
}
A:VISITED:HOVER {color:#FF0000; text-decoration: underline }
PRE { font-size: 10px}
.normal-link_small {FONT-SIZE: 7pt}

[xhtmlcoder]

Normally what you wrote above should work:

body {
font-family : verdana, sans-serif;
font-size : 10pt;
color : #333333;
}

That's assuming you have that font installed or haven't over-ridden it somewhere else or by using something like inline CSS in HTML file.

[deathshadow60]

1) ease up on the upper case, this isn't 1997 dealing with HTML 3.2

2) it's usually not a great idea to change the font-size without setting the line height, or to omit fallbacks should the font you want not exists (like say... verdana on a mac)

3) Are you on a computer (mac or linux) that doesn't have verdana installed in the first place since that's a microsoft core font?

4) the use of PT generally isn't recommended, you may wish to try %/EM (I was a hard sell on that too -- six years ago when it wasn't all that viable. Today, the WCAG says use %/EM, so use %/em)

5) is that your ENTIRE stylesheet?... Are you declaring anything in the markup that could be overriding that? This is why a CSS snippet isn't all that helpful; CSS without the HTML it's applied to is effectively gibberish.

You're setting the same values over and over again -- well, except for PRE which you seem to be setting in px... You're also missing a few semi-colons that could break it in SOME browsers... and that dual pseudo-class would be unneccessary if you put :visited BEFORE :hover -- and don't forget that when you target:hover on a link, you should also nab :active and :focus

I would also advise against the 10px font size on PRE... but I'd have to see the page in question to be sure.

When declaring fonts I ALWAYS use the full condensed font property:

font:normal 100%/140% verdana,helvetica,sans-serif;

Including a style so that legacy browsers actually obey the entire line, setting the line-height and of course at least one fallback and the fallback-family. Good rule of thumb, change the font-size, change the line-height. I use 140% as I find spacing them apart a bit more than the norm (110-130% depending on browser and font renderer) makes it easier to keep track of word-wraps.

So fixing all that would probably look something like this:

body {
	font:normal 85%/140% verdana,helvetica,sans-serif;
	/*
		85% works out to 14px on small font/96dpi systems,
		and 17px for large font/120dpi users
	*/
	color:#333
} 

table,
td,
th {
	/* 
		this font declaration should be unneccessary unless you're
		dealing with IE 5 or IE in quirks mode from a lack of doctype!
	*/
	font:normal 100%/140% verdana,helvetica,sans-serif; 
	/*
		You shouldn't have to redeclare the color, it should be inheriting from BODY
	*/
} 

a {
 color:#039; 
 text-decoration:none;
 /* no need to restate font, should inherit from BODY */
} 

a:visited {
	color:#90D;
}

a:active,
a:focus,
a:hover {
	color:#F00;
	text-decoration:underline;
}

pre { 
	font:normal 10px/14px monospace; 
} 

.normal-link_small {
	font:normal 90%/140% verdana,helvetica,sans-serif;
	/* borders on illegibly small */
}

Though I'd have to see the markup to say for sure what's going on. Do you have a copy online live we could take a look at?

[rockerz]

Thanks for all the input!
Just to clarify, if i type some words it comes out in Times ( where i would expect it to come out in Verdana). If I then select a word and link it, the word changes to verdana.

[deathshadow60]

"type some words" -- "link it"?!?

Are you talking about text inside an INPUT or TEXTAREA-- input's font is not set to inherit by default...

Though we could just be having a "terminology barrier" issue here.

[rockerz]

Just typing in the body should become verdana is what I was saying.
Below is a page to which it will apply


<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0//EN">
<html>


<head>
<LINK rel="stylesheet" href="styles/style_01.css" type="text/css">
<base target="detail">
<title>menu</title>
</head>

<body background="images/spldu-gr1.jpg" bgcolor="white" text="black" link="blue"
vlink="purple" alink="red">
<font size="2"><a href="http://stamnotech.com/what_we_are.html" target="detail"><font color="#3366FF" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><strong>What we are</strong></font></a><strong><font
color="#3366FF" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><br>
</font></strong></font><strong><font color="#3366FF" size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><a href="http://stamnotech.com/how_we_got_there.html" target="detail">How
we got there</a> <br>
<a href="http://stamnotech.com/tips.html" target="detail">Monthly Tips</a><br>
<font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><a href="http://stamnotech.com/home.html" target="detail">Home Users</a></font> <br>
<font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><a href="http://stamnotech.com/soho.html" target="detail">Small
Office</a><br>
<a href="http://stamnotech.com/contacts.html" target="detail">Contact Us</a><br>
<a href="http://stamnotech.com/backup.html" target="detail">File BakUp</a><br>
<a href="http://stamnotech.com/wordiseasy.html" target="detail">Sample Booklets</a><br>
<a href="http://stamnotech.com/CV.html" target="detail">CVs and Letters</a></font></font><font color="#3366FF" size="2"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><br>
<br>
<a href="http://stamnotech.com/details.html" target="detail">Home Page</a><br>
<a href="http://stamnotech.com/recipes.html" target="detail">Recipes</a></font></font></strong><font color="#3366FF" size="2"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><a href="http://stamnotech.com/recipes.html" target="detail"></a></font></font><font color="#3366FF" face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><font
size="2"><br>
</font></font>
<p><font
size="2" color="red"><!><!><!><!></font>Typying here should come out in verdana?</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p><font
size="2" color="red"><br>
<font color="#3366FF" face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">We use and recommend </font></font><font color="#3366FF" size="2" face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><a href="http://www.tes-amm.com.au/" target="_blank">TES_AMM</a> for all
our hardware recycling<br>
<a href="http://stamnotech.com/weddings.html" target="detail">Daughter's
wedding</a><br>
<a href="http://kdaybar.homeip.net/livia" target="_blank">Livia</a><br>
We use and recommend OpenOffice</font><font size="2" color="red"><br>
<a href="http://www.openoffice.org/" target="detail"><img src="marketing.openoffice.org/art/galleries/marketing/web_buttons/nicu/88x31_3_get.png"
border="0" alt=" Use OpenOffice.org" title="Use
OpenOffice.org"></a></font></p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
</body>



</html>

[rockerz]

This is simpler
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN"
"http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/loose.dtd">
<html>
<head><br>
<LINK rel="stylesheet" href="styles/style_01.css" type="text/css">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
<title>Untitled Document</title>
</head>

<body>
this is times but should be <a href="http://sitepoint.com">verdana</a>
</body>
</html>

[deathshadow60]

The first HTML you posted has an invalid doctype -- and hordes of attributes that if you are using CSS you shouldn't even have in your HTML in the first place. You also are declaring FACE improperly, since face can't accept multiple fonts like font-family can. That alone could be screwing things up.

You really might want to look into switching to STRICT instead of being in "transition" from 1997 to 1998... which means getting rid of background, bgcolor, text, link, vlink, alink, FONT, target, face, etc, etc, etc... All things that really have no business being in any HTML written after 2003ish. (when we kicked netscape 4 to the curb).

The second one has an invalid HEAD since BR can't go in HEAD... and you've got HTML 3.2 in your HTML 4.01 tranny... even so, there's nothing in the second one that should stop the text from being turned into verdana, unless you either didn't show us the whole stylesheet, or worse, the link to the stylesheet is invalid....

Are you SURE the stylesheet is actually even being loaded? I mean, if you set background-color on body, does it take?

Again, this would be simpler if you put the site in question online live somewhere... most of us here could diagnose it instantly in that case --- or at least confirm it's a real problem and not just something wonky with your browser.

[deathshadow60]

Actually, I just applied your CSS to the HTML in your first example -- and it works if the CSS is actually called. CSS off it does what you describe, so I'm assuming the link to the CSS is wrong.

Though really, it's hard to tell what's what in here with the lack of semantic markup... though that "base target=" bit could be screwing things up too... Question: is this supposed to be inside a frameset?!? If so then it's REALLY stuck in 1997... Going through the code, I'm assuming some wysiwyg is generating this? It's got all the telltales of something like DW or Frontpage.

[rockerz]

Thank you for the time you have spent on this deathshadow

This is someone else's markup. I am just beginning to address it.
>>>the style sheet works as I said when I make a link the font changes to conform to what is directed by the style sheet.

You said:The first HTML you posted has an invalid doctype -- and hordes of attributes that if you are using CSS you shouldn't even have in your HTML in the first place. You also are declaring FACE improperly, since face can't accept multiple fonts like font-family can. That alone could be screwing things up.
Sure but, but no because it doesn't work in the second example either

You really might want to look into switching to STRICT instead of being in "transition" from 1997 to 1998... which means getting rid of background, bgcolor, text, link, vlink, alink, FONT, target, face, etc, etc, etc... All things that really have no business being in any HTML written after 2003ish. (when we kicked netscape 4 to the curb).
OK
The second one has an invalid HEAD since BR can't go in HEAD...
without the tag it still doesn't work and you've got HTML 3.2 in your HTML 4.01 tranny... OK even so, there's nothing in the second one that should stop the text from being turned into verdana, unless you either didn't show us the whole stylesheet, I did or worse, the link to the stylesheet is invalid.... it isn't, see >>> above

Are you SURE the stylesheet is actually even being loaded? yes (above) I mean, if you set background-color on body, does it take?

Again, this would be simpler if you put the site in question online live somewhere... most of us here could diagnose it instantly in that case --- or at least confirm it's a real problem and not just something wonky with your browser. The full stylesheet and the page that it applies to is above
Many thanks,

[dresden_phoenix]

I hate to do this, as all of Shad's comments are quite valid...PUN!!!!

to change a LINK font on hover:
a{}
a:focus,a:hover,a:active, {... }
a:hover {font-family:Verdana; }/*hover rules must come after :link and :active...*/
a:visited{...}

I must point out that chang9ing the font WILL HAVE unforeseen effects on your layout. 16px(for example) Helvetica is just not the same size as as 16px Verdana.. so things will re flow accordingly.. just keep that in mind. this is part of what Shad was saying in his first reply point #2.

If you wanted to affect inputs... you need to add input {font-family:inherit}

hope that clarifies things for you.

[rockerz]

Thanks Dresden,
but i was only trying to find out why my desired default font - verdana appears as times new roman .

You said: If you wanted to affect inputs... you need to add input {font-family:inherit}

Don't know what input is...??? inherit??
If this is about forms, different planet )

[dresden_phoenix]

<inputs> (and <textarea>) is about forms. I guess it, I am just not getting what you are trying to ask, specifically. But I threw that in as a side guess anyway.

My first guess was that you were trying to get a LINK to change fonts on HOVER... which is why I suggested you revise the order of your CSS a:rules.

BTW, if suspect that your style sheet isnt linking... there's a simple test for that.

AT THE END of your CSS style sheet in question... ADD: BODY{border-top:50px solid pink;} and SAVE

if when you reload the page you have thick pink line at the top of the page.. your stylesheet is loading fine, leaving only two possibilities.. you dont have the Verdana installed in the machine (in that case , NO MATTER WHAT YOU DO , you wont see it the font change) or your rules are in the wrong order... see my suggestion above

OH ... also... get rid of all the FONT tags, am not certain that they would cause conflict but they maybe they are. in any case they are outdated and youa re using CSS now anyway.

[rockerz]

yes i got the big pink border and as i said if link a word it becomes verdana so verdana is there. Have been using verdana as preferred font since 1996 so definitely there.

my question is in the first post, v clearly
it is just a pain to have to keep manually making almost all of the font verdana sigh...

[dresden_phoenix]

this woudl be a better way of coding it. as I said I think those font tags are casuing havoc.

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01//EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/strict.dtd">
<html>
<head>
<LINK rel="stylesheet" href="styles/style_01.css" type="text/css">
<base target="detail">
<title>menu</title>
<style type="text/css">
body { font:normal 70%/1.3638em Verdana, Geneva, sans-serif ;color: #000; background:#fff;color:black; background:url(images/spldu-gr1.jpg); }
.spaced {margin-top:1em;}
a{color:blue;}
a:hover{color:orange;}
a:active{color:red;}
a:visited{color:purple;}
.links, .creditlinks, .secLinks{padding:0; list-style:none; font-family:Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;}
.links a, .secLinks{ font-weight:bold; font-size:130%}
 .secLinks{ font-weight:bold; font-size:110%}
.recomend a {display:block;}
</style>
</head>
<body>
<ul class="links">
     <li><a href="http://stamnotech.com/what_we_are.html" target="detail"> What we are</a></li>
     <li><a href="http://stamnotech.com/how_we_got_there.html" target="detail">How we got there</a> </li>
     <li><a href="http://stamnotech.com/tips.html" target="detail">Monthly Tips</a></li>
</ul>     
<ul class="secLinks">
     <li><a href="http://stamnotech.com/home.html" target="detail">Home Users</a></li>
     <li><a href="http://stamnotech.com/soho.html" target="detail">SmallOffice</a></li>
     <li><a href="http://stamnotech.com/contacts.html" target="detail">Contact Us</a></li>
     <li><a href="http://stamnotech.com/backup.html" target="detail">File BakUp</a></li>
     <li><a href="http://stamnotech.com/wordiseasy.html" target="detail">Sample Booklets</a></li>
     <li><a href="http://stamnotech.com/CV.html" target="detail">CVs and Letters</a></li>
     <li class="spaced"><a href="http://stamnotech.com/details.html" target="detail">Home Page</a></li>
     <li><a href="http://stamnotech.com/recipes.html" target="detail">Recipes</a><a href="http://stamnotech.com/recipes.html" target="detail"></a></li>
</ul> 
<p>Typying here should come out in verdana?(IT IS!!!</p>
<ul class="creditlinks">
     <li>We use and recommend <a href="http://www.tes-amm.com.au/" target="_blank">TES_AMM</a> for all our hardware recycling</li>
     <li><a href="http://stamnotech.com/weddings.html" target="detail">Daughter'swedding</a></li>
     <li><a href="http://kdaybar.homeip.net/livia" target="_blank">Livia</a></li>
     <li class="recomend">We use and recommend OpenOffice <a href="http://www.openoffice.org/" target="detail"><img src="marketing.openoffice.org/art/galleries/marketing/web_buttons/nicu/88x31_3_get.png"
     border="0" alt=" Use OpenOffice.org" title="UseOpenOffice.org"></a></li>
     </ul>
</body>
</html>

hope that helps

[EarlyOut]

The problem is much simpler than anyone has noticed. It's this line:

<font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><a href="http://stamnotech.com/soho.html" target="detail">Small
Office</a><br>

Notice that you never close the "font" tag, so everything after that is Arial.

Having said that, it is true that your code is a bit of a mess, and could stand some serious cleanup along the lines recommended by other posters. Just don't let them get you bogged down - some of these guys, if you post a question about the font you're using, will tell you that your shirt doesn't match your pants.

[Paul O'B]

The problem is much simpler than anyone has noticed. It's this line:

<font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><a href="http://stamnotech.com/soho.html" target="detail">Small
Office</a><br>

Notice that you never close the "font" tag, so everything after that is Arial.

As far as I can see that font tag is actually closed before it reaches the text the OP is talking about. (unless I missed a tag somewhere which is likely )

<font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><a href="http://stamnotech.com/home.html" target="detail">Home Users</a></font> <br>
<font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><a href="http://stamnotech.com/soho.html" target="detail">Small
Office</a><br>
<a href="http://stamnotech.com/contacts.html" target="detail">Contact Us</a><br>
<a href="http://stamnotech.com/backup.html" target="detail">File BakUp</a><br>
<a href="http://stamnotech.com/wordiseasy.html" target="detail">Sample Booklets</a><br>
<a href="http://stamnotech.com/CV.html" target="detail">CVs and Letters</a></font></font><font color="#3366FF" size="2"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><br>
<br>
<a href="http://stamnotech.com/details.html" target="detail">Home Page</a><br>
<a href="http://stamnotech.com/recipes.html" target="detail">Recipes</a></font></font></strong><font color="#3366FF" size="2"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><a href="http://stamnotech.com/recipes.html" target="detail"></a></font></font><font color="#3366FF" face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><font
size="2"><br>
</font></font>

Therefore it is not having any adverse effect on this text (and even if it was you'd be getting Arial and not Times as the OP states).

<p><font size="2" color="red">
    <!>
    <!>
    <!>
    <!>
    </font>Typying here should come out in verdana?</p>

As others have mentioned I am actually seeing that text as verdana and I have attached a screenshot showing that IE and Firefox agree that it is verdana.

I used the code and css that the OP supplied without changes (apart from making the text red so that we know the rule is being applied).

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0//EN">
<html>
<head>
<LINK rel="stylesheet" href="styles/style_01.css" type="text/css">
<style type="text/css">
BODY {
    FONT-FAMILY: verdana;
    FONT-SIZE: 10pt;
    COLOR: red
}
TABLE, TD {
    FONT-FAMILY: verdana;
    FONT-SIZE: 10pt;
    COLOR: #333333
}
A {
    FONT-SIZE: 10pt;
    COLOR: #003399;
    FONT-FAMILY: verdana;
    TEXT-DECORATION: none
}
A:HOVER {
    color:#FF0000;
    text-decoration: underline
}
A:VISITED {
    color: #9400D3;
}
A:VISITED:HOVER {
    color:#FF0000;
    text-decoration: underline
}
PRE {
    font-size: 10px
}
.normal-link_small {
    FONT-SIZE: 7pt
}
</style>
<base target="detail">
<title>menu</title>
</head>
<body background="http://www.sitepoint.com/forums/images/spldu-gr1.jpg" bgcolor="white" text="black" link="blue"
vlink="purple" alink="red">
<font size="2"><a href="http://stamnotech.com/what_we_are.html" target="detail"><font color="#3366FF" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><strong>What we are</strong></font></a><strong><font
color="#3366FF" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><br>
</font></strong></font><strong><font color="#3366FF" size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><a href="http://stamnotech.com/how_we_got_there.html" target="detail">How
we got there</a> <br>
<a href="http://stamnotech.com/tips.html" target="detail">Monthly Tips</a><br>
<font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><a href="http://stamnotech.com/home.html" target="detail">Home Users</a></font> <br>
<font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><a href="http://stamnotech.com/soho.html" target="detail">Small
Office</a><br>
<a href="http://stamnotech.com/contacts.html" target="detail">Contact Us</a><br>
<a href="http://stamnotech.com/backup.html" target="detail">File BakUp</a><br>
<a href="http://stamnotech.com/wordiseasy.html" target="detail">Sample Booklets</a><br>
<a href="http://stamnotech.com/CV.html" target="detail">CVs and Letters</a></font></font><font color="#3366FF" size="2"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><br>
<br>
<a href="http://stamnotech.com/details.html" target="detail">Home Page</a><br>
<a href="http://stamnotech.com/recipes.html" target="detail">Recipes</a></font></font></strong><font color="#3366FF" size="2"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><a href="http://stamnotech.com/recipes.html" target="detail"></a></font></font><font color="#3366FF" face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><font
size="2"><br>
</font></font>
<p><font size="2" color="red">
    <!>
    <!>
    <!>
    <!>
    </font>Typying here should come out in verdana?</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p><font
size="2" color="red"><br>
    <font color="#3366FF" face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">We use and recommend </font></font><font color="#3366FF" size="2" face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><a href="http://www.tes-amm.com.au/" target="_blank">TES_AMM</a> for all
    our hardware recycling<br>
    <a href="http://stamnotech.com/weddings.html" target="detail">Daughter's
    wedding</a><br>
    <a href="http://kdaybar.homeip.net/livia" target="_blank">Livia</a><br>
    We use and recommend OpenOffice</font><font size="2" color="red"><br>
    <a href="http://www.openoffice.org/" target="detail"><img src="marketing.openoffice.org/art/galleries/marketing/web_buttons/nicu/88x31_3_get.png"
border="0" alt=" Use OpenOffice.org" title="Use
OpenOffice.org"></a></font></p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
</body>
</html>

Therefore the real issue is elsewhere (although as others have said that code should be sent back to 1999 and a fresh start made ).

it is just a pain to have to keep manually making almost all of the font verdana sigh.

You shouldn't need to do that so perhaps post a screenshot of what you are seeing may give us a clue if you can't host this online anywhere for us to fix for you.

[EarlyOut]

You're right - I saw what the OP was complaining about once, but now can't reproduce it. One does, indeed, get lost in all the font tags!

[rockerz]

OMG You guys have gone to so much trouble. The junky code will be junked. I didn't write it. My problem is when I start to type in Dreamweaver I expect to see verdana not times. I made it simple back in this post: http://www.sitepoint.com/forums/4887390-post7.html
i type, i get times. I save and preview in the browser, i get times. Something is weird and it ain't the junky code or anything in it as in the post above there's nothing but the bare minimum. It is reading the style sheet as when I link text it changes into verdana.

[deathshadow60]

My problem is when I start to type in Dreamweaver

<mythbusters>Well there's your problem</mythbusters>

Fat bloated overpriced steaming piles of manure like Dreamweaver are inept enough on their own -- loading some old outdated code into it and then expecting the WYSIWYG to actually behave normally is unrealistic at best... As a dearly departed friend of mine used to say: "The only thing you can learn from Dreamweaver is how NOT to build a website, and the only thing about Dreamweaver that can be considered professional grade tools are the people promoting it's use"

WYSIWYG editors universally produce rubbish markup, rubbish CSS, and NONE of the example or auto-generated code included with them is worth a damn.

Do yourself a huge favor, uninstall that bloated useless nonsense, make microwave art with the CD's and burn any documentation that came with it -- then go get a plain flat text editor like Crimson, EditPlus, Notepad++, etc... and work with the actual code directly.

[Paul O'B]

My problem is when I start to type in Dreamweaver I expect to see verdana not times. I made it simple back in this post: http://www.sitepoint.com/forums/4887390-post7.html
.

This is the first time you mentioned Dreamweaver!

This means its not really a html or CSS question it's a software question that has nothing to do with what we have been talking about.

Dreamweaver isn't a browser and doesn't render css correctly in design mode at all. You need to preview in a real browser to make sure its working as expected.

As we have been saying all along the code is working as expected so its a software issue with dreamweaver itself. You either have a cached file or you haven't attached the stylesheet correctly with the attach stylesheet command. Dreamweaver often gets stuck on the wrong file which is why you should never rely on it and save the file and then preview in a browser instead.

Create a new page and copy the html from the old page into it minus the stylesheet and save the page. Then attach the stylesheet using the attach stylesheet command. Navigate to the page outside of dreamweaver and load it into a browser directly to check. Then every time you make a change to the file you can just click refresh to check the changes have applied.

[rockerz]

thank you Death shadow, nice little tirade. You almost blew a fuse there.

[rockerz]

Paul OB
You said: Dreamweaver isn't a browser (really…?) and doesn't render css correctly in design mode at all.
Went back to an earlier site that uses the exact same style sheet and it works perfectly and does render verdana whenever I type, in Dreamweaver.

You need to preview in a real browser to make sure its working as expected.
I would have thought Firefox is real enough. I’ll get rid of that right away.

I said: "i type, i get times. I save and preview in the browser, i get times."

If I am sounding a bit churlish, look at the tone of your post and the one before you. I am tempted to say there has to be something in this junky code page ( that I inherited to fix) that is overriding my stylesheet but why did it still fault when I tired it using a minimum of code – something silly wrong somewhere and I have never struck this before.
Thanks all.

[Paul O'B]

Paul OB
You said: Dreamweaver isn't a browser (really…?)

Dreamweaver is not a browser its a software design tool with a wysiwyg interface that unfortunately cannot handle all but the simplest css. I use its code editor (which is very good) but design view is of no use to me at all as it just does not render css in any usable form.

Went back to an earlier site that uses the exact same style sheet and it works perfectly and does render verdana whenever I type, in Dreamweaver.

Are we talking at cross purposes here?

Do you mean that the text in Dreamweaver is showing as Times in design View?

I'm a little confused as you say that you have tested in Firefox and the text displays as Times yet above you have just said that in an old version of Dreamweaver you are getting Verdana. Is that correct?

Are you also getting Times in Firefox when you load the page directly into Firefox? (that means opening Firefox and then finding the file from the firefox toolbar (File, Open File, etc ...).

It's important that you open the file directly in the browser and not via dreamweavers "preview in a browser" function because that uses some sort of cached temporary stylesheet and occasionally gets stuck.

Depending on the answers to the above it may be that the problem is with your current version of Dreamweaver and not a CSS issue at all.

However if as you say that Firefox is natively displaying the text in your page as Times also then we can assume that it is an html or css issue and ignore dreamweaver.

If you want you can attach a zip to the thread containing a working copy of your page that exhibits the bug that you mention and then we can work from there.

If I am sounding a bit churlish, look at the tone of your post

I realise you are getting frustrated but please read over my posts again as there is no harsh tone in my post at all and indeed I have gone above and beyond the call of duty and created a local page using all the code you posted and indeed supplied screenshots of how it is rendering. I spent some considerable time doing that for you so I would appreciate that you don't become churlish as that will not elicit the help you need.

[Stomme poes]

I keep getting the idea that the OP wants to see verdana while typing in the text editor of DreamWeaver. So wouldn't that be a setting in DreamWeaver?

This is why everyone kept bringing up forms. People don't type in web pages, except in form elements.

The type of font you see in your text editor has nothing to do with the font you see in a browser, and except in form elements, nobody types anything into a web page showing in a browser.

(Paul, what's that IE debugger in your screenshot??)

But personally I think everyone's frustration would vanish immediately if the page were completely rewritten (what Paul wrote)... in a normal (non DreamWeaver) text editor. Trying to fix the above is like sucking the oil out of the Caribbean with a straw.

Then angels will break out of the clouds and sing and when you peer deep into their mouths you'll see their angelic uvulas are singing too and rose petals will fall from the sky and little multi-cultural children caked with Photoshop cream will hold hands and sing KumBaYa with bunny rabbits hopping and flowers blooming and two cats in the yard.