SitePoint Sponsor

User Tag List

View Poll Results: How often do you use tables now?

Voters
8. You may not vote on this poll
  • Despite all advice to the contrary I'm still using layout tables.

    1 12.50%
  • Complex tables in any case they are useful

    4 50.00%
  • Simple tables, but I find another way if colspan or rowspan would be needed.

    1 12.50%
  • Never. HTML 6 doesn't need table tags at all. Use the table layout css.

    2 25.00%
Results 1 to 20 of 20
  1. #1
    I solve practical problems. bronze trophy
    Michael Morris's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Knoxville TN
    Posts
    2,026
    Mentioned
    64 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    How often do you use tables now?

    Just curious. I still use tables frequently because a lot of the sites I work on deal with tabular data, including tables complicated enough to have colspan and rowspan. But I've seen people go out of their way to stay off tables and was wondering if that trend was continuing.

    BTW, in my opinion tables have become more powerful in the role they are intended for - tabular data - since they can be styled consistently and given a consistent table-y appearance (rounding the corners of a table is a PITA but possible).

  2. #2
    Robert Wellock silver trophybronze trophy xhtmlcoder's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    A Maze of Twisty Little Passages
    Posts
    6,316
    Mentioned
    60 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    None of the above because I cannot find an option that best fits. Though I use the TABLE as it was intended to be used for tabular data and not for layout. Though like you said some people have the strange notation TABLE is evil because many people misused them for layout. Obviously for page layout and positioning they are not appropriate.

    Though for containing and describing data sets such as; a survey of how many worms are a specific length then that's appropriate, etc.

  3. #3
    SitePoint Addict EarlyOut's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Sector R
    Posts
    280
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I use tables when they provide an easy, flexible way of creating a layout that does what I want it to do, and when the corresponding "better" CSS approach is, frankly, godawful.

    I'm not hand-coding HTML - I write software that generates the HTML, and there are dozens and dozens of user options. So, I frequently have layouts that require an indeterminate number of columns (depending upon the options the user chooses), columns that must all line up (vertically and horizontally), that must expand or contract with changes in the size of the viewport, that have to adjust to variable amounts of text (text whose line-wrapping behavior is not predictable because of varying viewport sizes, user choices of font sizes, and so on), that have to adjust to images whose sizes I don't know in advance, etc., etc.

    It turns out that tables are pretty good at this, and CSS bites the big one. Why abandon a good tool in pursuit of pointless religious purity?

    (It makes me think of Ralph Kramden doing his own TV commercial to sell kitchen gadgets: YouTube - The Honeymooners - Chef of the Future. Yup, gotta use that new tool! "Yes, it can core a apple!")

  4. #4
    I solve practical problems. bronze trophy
    Michael Morris's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Knoxville TN
    Posts
    2,026
    Mentioned
    64 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I've never had problems handling dozens and dozens of user options and getting things to line up with CSS. Indeed, once you get used to it writing the code is much faster. So perhaps it is your skills that are lacking rather than the capability of CSS.

  5. #5
    SitePoint Addict EarlyOut's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Sector R
    Posts
    280
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    That's certainly a possibility, but when I see some of the vaunted "solutions" to things like the liquid three-column layout problem, I feel like I'm being visited by the Chef of the Future, showing me how to "core a apple."

  6. #6
    Mouse catcher silver trophy Stevie D's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Yorkshire, UK
    Posts
    5,888
    Mentioned
    122 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    I use tables extensively, because several of my sites present tabular data, and so it is correct to use them.

    I have, in the distant past, used small layout tables but I have never used one for the full site layout, and never will.

  7. #7
    SitePoint Wizard Stomme poes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    10,278
    Mentioned
    50 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)
    I work in insurance, so I have lots of tables.

    Usually, they are poorly-thought-out tables someone made in a PDF and I am showing that same table in HTML. Needless to say, not only am I getting colspans and rowspans, but if necessary I make use of axis attributes.

    I also use tables in forms, when users are actually filling out a table (like a schedule, pricing levels, etc). Though because of how various screen readers deal with those, the form elements have to make sense on their own as if there wasn't a table, which gets me wondering if that convoluted method by brothercake isn't less convoluted than what I'm already doing ; )

    I've never used layout tables, but this is likely more because those were already on their way out when I get started in all this... needless to say, I don't really have the skills to use layout tables. Guess that might bite me some day doing HTML emails or something... oh well.


    I was very tempted to check the HTML6 option.

  8. #8
    SitePoint Zealot
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    186
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I still use tables for tabular data or information that could be rearranged as tabular for better legibility.
    I have used tables for layout but have repented of my sins.

    I have just rearranged one of my wife's site pages to have tabular format as it looks so much better. Trying to use CSS and HTML 5 for that data was such a pain.

    I haven't looked at HTML 6 to see the table layout css, HTML 5 is enough at present.

    Like a previous poster the option I needed "When necessary but not for layout" was not present.
    ========================
    Carn the Tiges!
    www.petalsandpatches.com

  9. #9
    The CSS Clinic is open silver trophybronze trophy
    Paul O'B's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Hampshire UK
    Posts
    40,366
    Mentioned
    179 Post(s)
    Tagged
    6 Thread(s)
    I'm with Robert and there is no option for the way I use tables and that is when displaying tabular data or on the rare occasion where the effect can only be done in a table.

    There are very few layouts that need tables these days (IE8+) but in the past I think it was OK to use the odd table for that awkward element where multiple equal columns and vertical alignment was required. If the CSS equivalent is too awkward, bloated or convoluted then use a table for that element only. That doesn't mean use a table for every other elements as well though.

  10. #10
    Barefoot on the Moon! silver trophy Force Flow's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Northeastern USA
    Posts
    4,606
    Mentioned
    56 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    I still use tables on the rare occasion for the oddball situation where CSS just doesn't work well, like Paul mentioned.

    Otherwise, I use tables just for data.
    Visit The Blog | Follow On Twitter
    301tool 1.1.5 - URL redirector & shortener (PHP/MySQL)
    Can be hosted on and utilize your own domain

  11. #11
    SitePoint Zealot zbing's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Lisbon, Portugal
    Posts
    159
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    When doing freaky markup for email marketing stuff.
    It's incredible how most email clients fail miserably at rendering HTML.
    zbing

  12. #12
    The CSS Clinic is open silver trophybronze trophy
    Paul O'B's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Hampshire UK
    Posts
    40,366
    Mentioned
    179 Post(s)
    Tagged
    6 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by zbing View Post
    When doing freaky markup for email marketing stuff.
    It's incredible how most email clients fail miserably at rendering HTML.
    Yes full tables for email and virtually no css apart from colours.

  13. #13
    Barefoot on the Moon! silver trophy Force Flow's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Northeastern USA
    Posts
    4,606
    Mentioned
    56 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Paul O'B View Post
    Yes full tables for email and virtually no css apart from colours.
    Yep, it saddens me that email clients and webmail haven't caught up.
    Visit The Blog | Follow On Twitter
    301tool 1.1.5 - URL redirector & shortener (PHP/MySQL)
    Can be hosted on and utilize your own domain

  14. #14
    I solve practical problems. bronze trophy
    Michael Morris's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Knoxville TN
    Posts
    2,026
    Mentioned
    64 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    My email HTML is always HTML 3 compliant because, sadly, the HTML rendering engines of most email clients are straight outta '98.

  15. #15
    SitePoint Zealot FaridHadi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    170
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I use tables for tabular data and not for layout. I also use tables for HTML emails since we really don't have a choice there.

  16. #16
    SitePoint Addict EarlyOut's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Sector R
    Posts
    280
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I think this thread has become the place for CSS Taliban recruits to engage in witnessing. "Yes, since I found Jeebus, my life has become one of utter joy!"

    Or maybe a better analogy would be a Temperance League, in which the new members "take the pledge."

  17. #17
    SitePoint Wizard Stomme poes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    10,278
    Mentioned
    50 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)
    I think this thread has become the place for CSS Taliban recruits to engage in witnessing. "Yes, since I found Jeebus, my life has become one of utter joy!"
    Hm like abstinence pledges! As one of the converted, however, I welcome our new web standards overlords. Omigod I just laid a golden @media query egg!

    SINCE I FOUND CSS MY LIFE HAS BECOME ONE OF RIGHTEOUSNESS AND PURITY DAMMIT
    and we eateth NOT of the HTML E-mails... for they are unclean in the eyes of ZELDMAN

    I want an CSS Taliban badge. Kinda goes pretty well with the Web Standards Evangelical Army with jack-booted storm troopers and the whole bit.

    <Mr Burns hand-rubbing> Yeees, Smithers, recruitment is going weeeell, yeees...</Mr Burns>

    We also stuff brains into a giant laundry machine and whoosh-woosh them around for a bit before returning them smelling mountain fresh! Gets rid of those unsightly border="0" attributes

  18. #18
    Forums Designer
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    422
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I've stopped using them for layout when I stopped supporting IE6, but I do use them to display tabular data.

    Unfortunately that's not in poll options. All poll options imply that people ether use them incorrectly or don't use them at all, there is no option for people who use tables as they are meant to be used.

    So I've selected last poll option, even though I disagree with it. Tables are useful and will be useful in future because that's the logical way to display spreadsheets and other tabular data.

  19. #19
    SitePoint Member
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    7
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I only use tables for tabular data but I this rarely,I prefer not to use this,for me,using tables for non tabular data is unprofessional.

  20. #20
    I solve practical problems. bronze trophy
    Michael Morris's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Knoxville TN
    Posts
    2,026
    Mentioned
    64 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by CyberAlien View Post
    I've stopped using them for layout when I stopped supporting IE6, but I do use them to display tabular data.

    Unfortunately that's not in poll options. All poll options imply that people ether use them incorrectly or don't use them at all, there is no option for people who use tables as they are meant to be used.

    So I've selected last poll option, even though I disagree with it. Tables are useful and will be useful in future because that's the logical way to display spreadsheets and other tabular data.
    As the author of the poll #2 is what I intended for "tables for tabular data"


Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •