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  1. #1
    SitePoint Zealot superbrava's Avatar
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    Should I Even Bother Doing Web Design Anymore? Have A Look And Give Me Your Opinions

    I have had designers block for what seems like forever now, and i can't get myself out of it at all. Here are links to my previous work, they are unfinished, they are just 1 pagers basically, some of the "site links" work, some dont. These have only been tested in IE 5+ also...


    http://members.lycos.co.uk/asphixiat...ult.php?p=Home

    http://members.lycos.co.uk/asphixiat...m=&ts=&tt=&ti=

    http://members.lycos.co.uk/asphixiat...=Home&un=&pass

    http://members.lycos.co.uk/asphixiat...t.php?sid=home

    http://members.lycos.co.uk/asphixiaton/phenominal/

    http://members.lycos.co.uk/asphixiat...ew/default.php

    ... more of my better work is on a server that is down at the moment... anyways, you get the idea. tell me what you think, i need something to go by, either just quit or try and go to school for it. i've never been happy with my work with the web or music.. grrr.
    Steve v3.2.2 running on LocalSuck port 80

  2. #2
    SitePoint Addict Scud's Avatar
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    Well sir, I envy you. I've never had the talent for design, I just make it all work. Your a telented designer, I like all of them (except maybe the pixel art one, but thats just personal taste).

  3. #3
    SitePoint Zealot superbrava's Avatar
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    thanks for the kind words, i still don't believe i should try and get into the business though. i don't have what it takes. i only know html & css really well, i code from scratch, and i'm learning php & mysql & javascript, but i don't know what i need to know to get a job doing this sort of thing... kinda bums me out
    Steve v3.2.2 running on LocalSuck port 80

  4. #4
    SitePoint Addict Scud's Avatar
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    Originally posted by superbrava
    thanks for the kind words, i still don't believe i should try and get into the business though. i don't have what it takes. i only know html & css really well, i code from scratch, and i'm learning php & mysql & javascript, but i don't know what i need to know to get a job doing this sort of thing... kinda bums me out
    I'm in school for this thing, I've seen worse get hired (myself included). I'm teaching myself PHP and XML as well. JavaScript is almost a must I've found out from interviews. I don't think you have to worry about your designs skills. Pick up a couple of those programmign languages and your golden.

    I took up flash and focus on that, too bad I still can't design. But I'm working on it

  5. #5
    SitePoint Zealot superbrava's Avatar
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    Angry javascript is hard! =)

    I get PHP 100 fold compared to JavaScript. I don't understand how javascript works or anything. I have the same problem with VBScript. I can do simple things like mouse-over images etc...

    [VBS]<a href="blah.html" onMouseOver="document.images['i1'].src='image_on.gif'" onMouseOut="document.images['i1'].src='image_off.gif'"><img name="i1" name="image_off.gif"></a>[/VBS]

    that's about all i know, some simple form highlighting, but most of the stuff i know with JavaScript isn't cross-browser at all. I wish i knew XML. I can work with it, i just don't know what it really does yet. oh well. hehe.

    i have alot of problems trying to learn flash too, and i don't know why. it has been such a struggle, i just gave up on it. i know photoshop pretty damn well though, enough to get me by at least.
    Steve v3.2.2 running on LocalSuck port 80

  6. #6
    SitePoint Zealot superbrava's Avatar
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    you have any urls i can look at of your stuff??
    Steve v3.2.2 running on LocalSuck port 80

  7. #7
    SitePoint Addict Scud's Avatar
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    I just took them down. I'm brainstorming a new design for my new site www.pixelstyles.com As of now I have a box on paper.. heh. It'll be up in a week or two for sure.

  8. #8
    SitePoint Evangelist worksdev's Avatar
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    Hey superbrava:

    Your stuff looks great. Great designs. Relatively diverse in style. Good color schemes.

    What's the deal? Have you had trouble finding work?

    best regards,
    worksdev

  9. #9
    SitePoint Zealot superbrava's Avatar
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    Thanks, but i beg to differ. In fact, i get so frustrated with my stuff, that i just wanna scream! lol. I've applied at around probably 50 web design companies in the same state i live in, and only got 1 response. i'm working at a college doing "computer lab consulting"... which amounts to me telling people that it's not their fault, it's the printers fault, and dealing with people saying "the computer locked up, and i didn't save my word document"....grrr... whatever. :P hehe.

    i know i can format a page correctly, i know html almost front to back, but i have set my goals to where if it isn't a site like http://www.bn.com or http://www.devil.com then my work isn't good enough. when my server gets up, i'll show you my newer stuff..
    Steve v3.2.2 running on LocalSuck port 80

  10. #10
    Web Genius
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    superbrava contact me. I know someone that will hire you for part time work right now. Your skills are excellent.

    steve@towerhost.com

    Thanks

  11. #11
    SitePoint Addict Scud's Avatar
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    Originally posted by superbrava
    Thanks, but i beg to differ. In fact, i get so frustrated with my stuff, that i just wanna scream! lol. I've applied at around probably 50 web design companies in the same state i live in, and only got 1 response.
    Ok, do yourself a favor, do an advanced search for posts by user Jackman. But start with this one:
    http://www.sitepointforums.com/showt...threadid=29194

    His posts are so bookmark worthy.

  12. #12
    SitePoint Zealot superbrava's Avatar
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    i looked him up. =)
    Steve v3.2.2 running on LocalSuck port 80

  13. #13
    SitePoint Enthusiast Fitch's Avatar
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    IMO your designs look quite good. That said...

    I'm not a fan of tiny type. And on a Mac, that tiny type is absolutely unreadable (if you care).

    Also, get an experienced editor to review your copy, it's not professional.

    Instead of a bunch of half-done sites, it might be more impressive to have a smaller portfolio of COMPLETE sites, with all links and back-end functional. Better to have one site with few links that all function than 3 sites with lots of cool-looking but broken links. It does make an impression, perhaps, "I am lazy," or "I don't finish what I start," or "details, shmetails," etc.

    Find a small business or non-profit or a band or someone who needs a site and offer to do it for free or extremely cheap. Be up front that you are doing it to add to your portfolio etc. Be sure that they get a "real" domain, (not tripod) it looks much better in the portfolio of course.

    Create a site for yourself with a "real" domain. Can't afford to invest $100/year in your career? Ouch. The clients that you do the free/cheap sites for, stipulate that their site will have a link to yours.

    And the biggie: the web design market is saturated. Even two years ago, tech companies were turning up their noses at people who "only" know HTML. The big bucks go to programmers. You can make a living in design, but I hope you like Top Ramen.
    Gratuitous sig URLs:
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  14. #14
    SitePoint Member Pilgrim's Avatar
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    Well, took a look at your sites and all I can say is, if you're not getting any work, we're all stuffed!

    As for 'only' knowing HTML & CSS, what's the problem? If more web designers concentrated on the basics the world would be a better place! (Anyone else sick of design intensive/flash heavy sites that achieve little or nothing?)

    I worked for a team of three on the British Army site overhaul last year - http://www.army.mod.uk and believe me, the guy in charge (a VB programmer), didn't have a patch on you... Stuck at it, you'll get your break!
    You know that somewhere,
    there's someone who's out there,
    who thinks like you do...

  15. #15
    SitePoint Zealot superbrava's Avatar
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    i dont have a mac, so i wouldn't know about the text. it's usually 8pt, and i design for 800x600.

    my web server is down, lycos is free and temporary.

    these designs aren't for portfolio purposes, they are just to give an idea.

    i had my domain, 3 of them expired. when being out of work because of the job market for 5 months, it's hard to fork out money for a domain when you can be helping your fiancee pay bills as much as possible.

    that, in my opinion, is no excuses.
    Steve v3.2.2 running on LocalSuck port 80

  16. #16
    SitePoint Zealot superbrava's Avatar
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    www.cqc.com/~emmausmc - free
    www.hostingpros.net - free (he screwed it up too)
    www.durge.net ( http://www.rtcol.com/~snsrudd ) - free (only been tested in IE 5 (PC)...uses layers...not my preference, the bands though)
    Steve v3.2.2 running on LocalSuck port 80

  17. #17
    Your Lord and Master, Foamy gold trophy Hierophant's Avatar
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    Originally posted by superbrava
    thanks for the kind words, i still don't believe i should try and get into the business though. i don't have what it takes. i only know html & css really well, i code from scratch, and i'm learning php & mysql & javascript, but i don't know what i need to know to get a job doing this sort of thing... kinda bums me out
    Why do you have to be able to do everything? I personally don't do a lot of actual designing. I don't have the knack for it. I definately don't do very many graphics only quick and easy ones.

    You can also contract out stuff like PHP and MySQL and even Javascript.
    Wayne Luke
    ------------


  18. #18
    SitePoint Addict Scud's Avatar
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    You sound like you just need a good boost to the self esteem. You should head over to some "design" schools in your area and take a look at the work being put out by folks being trained to be "designers." You'll find that you could beat most of them out of a job if you put your stuff next to theirs.

    You have a better portfolio than some "designers" I know. So chin up and just take the plung. Worse case is you end up back where you are now.

  19. #19
    SitePoint Wizard samsm's Avatar
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    You should do what you like. If you enjoy working with a given breed of web development you should stick with it, improve your skills and learn what interests you.

    From your links you seem to have a fine sense of design. If you like that, stick with it, figure out where you want to go and devise a strategy to achieve those goals. Find a university with a good design program and go with it. If one year through you realize you don't like it, switch to something else.

    The important thing is that you go with what you want to do. Skills can be learned, it is a lot more difficult to come to like doing someonthing. To answer the top querstion, if you like web design, you should bother with it. If not, skip it.

    Good luck, whatever direction you go
    Using your unpaid time to add free content to SitePoint Pty Ltd's portfolio?

  20. #20
    SitePoint Zealot superbrava's Avatar
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    Why I need to know everything

    I've been checking out web design companies websites, and I've also figured out that most companies are pretty small-scale, meaning they have less than 5 people, that's the majority of what I've seen.

    I hate the fact that they can offer PHP, Perl, Database Design (Access, MySQL, MSQL, Oracle), JSP, ASP, ASP.NET, VB, Java, JavaScript, DHTML, XML, Python, C/C++/C#, etc...

    Who in the hell is able to learn all of that????!?!?!?! It would take me a lifetime, and I don't have that long. So I figure if I got a GOOD server-side language under my belt, and can learn Databases, that i could create the entire solution myself. Unfortunately, when it comes to programming, you either have the knack for it or you don't. I can do some simple stuff, but that's about it. I just made a news script with the ability to post news, edit news, or delete news. That's about as good as i get. It was all done with PHP/MySQL, which is my strongest point at the moment. I don't understand perl & cgi much at all. I thought it was quite similar to PHP, but i see alot of differences. I don't understand JavaScripts object trees, I DEFINATELY don't get any JSP i see, that's crazy stuff.

    Plus, if you want to do web design, many customers want the "complete" solution, not bits and pieces. I also need to learn stuff like Illustrator and Flash, which i don't understand at all. Im just a photoshop guru.
    Steve v3.2.2 running on LocalSuck port 80

  21. #21
    eCommerce specialist hotnuts21's Avatar
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    I think your work is very good!!

    how much would you charge for a Site design, i am thinking of having mine re done?? Pm or email me.

    It appears you just need a bit more confidence in your work,and your ability.
    Search & Rescue Aberystwyth Lifeboat
    CSS Tutorials/Guides

    Sitepoint signatures are not visible to Search Engines More info

  22. #22
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    Thumbs up "Who you know"

    You're very talented. That being said, you are missing a very important reality - outsourcing. As you said, most of these design companies are quite small. They are able to offer all of those solutions because they outsource when necessary. Given, they certainly have people that know most of the stuff, especially the stuff used most often (PHP, PERL, Database, HTML, Flash), but I would be willing to bet that when an odd job comes up that needs something that they don't do, they outsource it.

    I recently started my own business, and the first thing I learned in trying to become successful is that who you know is very important. Make connections to companies that offer the services you need (hint: India, Russia, China - CHEAP!) and establish relationships with them. Keep doing what you do best and let others do what they do best. The thinner you spread yourself, the thinner your sites will become. From what you have shown me, you lack no talent and create professional sites.

    As far as school, skip it. It is nice to have a degree, but coming from someone with 3 of them (BA Graphic Design, MA Graphic design, BS Computer Graphics/Animation), you'd be better served to continue learning in the "real World." Also, why work for someone else? You have the talent, and in this field, starting your own business requires almost no monetary investment. Make some connections and partner up with the slickest salesman you know and I believe you will do well. (Or, contact me at chris@creativecasting.net for info on working with me - maybe using the connections I have already developed to source needs for sites you sell. I also have a unique angle on the market that has been very successful for me.)

    Good luck, and keep up the good work!

    Chris Vowell

  23. #23
    SitePoint Member
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    Hi Superbrava,

    Welcome to the Club! It's not easy to become a member. You must have/be all of the following:
    - really really low self esteem
    - pessimistic, but you call yourself "realistic"
    - so perfectionist that you are almost neurotic
    - depressed

    May I suggest that you start your day telling yourself that you are good and talented and will have a good day. Ok, I know that you probably won't believe that, but if you say it often enough, you might stop thinking the worst about yourself.

    I have a suggestion, why don't you participate in this contest?:
    "We're looking for your best shot at designing our 2002 Holiday e-card, to be admired and enjoyed by the international design and DWR communities. We've already received hundreds of registrations, but don't be daunted, the more the better. So, whether you're a designer, a student or a business mogul by day, register and send us an e-card design that speaks to the spirit of design and innovation. Deadline for registering is September 30. For more information, visit http://www.dwr.com/ecard.cfm."

    I think that you are a good designer so you have a good chance of winning. That would be nice, right? And if you are thinking why try?, I cannot win and that sort of things, consider that at least you will be putting your work and name out there. Other people will see it and maybe you'll get some job offers.

    Last but not least, don't give up! If you're persistent, sooner or later you will succeed.

    Good luck, Rox
    Rox - roxminu
    from Lima, Peru

  24. #24
    runat="server" Golgotha's Avatar
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    hey superbrava, I know how you feel, I have felt that way before too, usually after looking at another one of Eric Jordan's creations or Josh Davis's.

    But, then I think there's alot of guys on the PGA who will never win a golf tournament and yet they still are out there each week. Not many people are Tiger Woods and not many people are Eric Jordan.

    I will never be Tiger Woods, but each week, I'm out on the golf course, because I love playing the game. I design websites too. I'm not the best, but I enjoy doing it.

  25. #25
    SitePoint Zealot superbrava's Avatar
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    Thanks for all the kind words. My problem is that my standards are set so high, that i feel as if i should be able to create sites like eBay, Barnes & Noble, Half, etc... I could make the template, just not the backend.

    I really appreciate all of everyone's input in this thread. It has made me feel alot better. I needed a boost of some good vibes & self-esteem.
    Steve v3.2.2 running on LocalSuck port 80


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