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  1. #351
    SitePoint Wizard silver trophy Jeremy W.'s Avatar
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    I don't think it is an of course though. The number of shops using PHP/MySQL/Apache isn't really as large as most people would have you believe. Java and ASP/.NET have a far larger installed base in companies.

    I was asking because the original poster was asking about security, so I wanted to know what area of security would concern him. If he was coming from a Websphere background his concerns would be far different than from an Apache background, for instance.

    Also, I'd recommend that .NET be judged on .NET alone. After all, it's not like your webserver should be directly exposed to the Internet. You should be using PIX or something for a firewall really, at that level.

    As such security is a concern, but not the same kind of concern for a guy at home with a single server, if you know what I mean.

    Different concerns and hard-ups for different people, hence my question: where is the user coming from in terms of security?

    J
    SVP Marketing, SoCast SRM
    Personal blog: Strategerize
    Twitter: @jeremywright

  2. #352
    SitePoint Wizard silver trophy Jeremy W.'s Avatar
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    Btw, that's a TRULY badly written report. Awful and full of ambiguities, assumptions and misclarifications. I can't believe anyone serious would let that be published, nevermind hope that it would stand up to any true peer review process.

    I got 3 pages in and gave up. Not because I support MS, but because it would never convince anyone of anything. It's like a sermon by a TV-evangelist or something.

    J
    SVP Marketing, SoCast SRM
    Personal blog: Strategerize
    Twitter: @jeremywright

  3. #353
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    Question

    [QUOTE='Jeremy W.'with security (today's "dig it up" post ).
    J[/QUOTE]
    I am not sure how I dug this thread up (I don't do much sewing but perhaps I should do more...)

    I know security doesn't have much to do with your perennial language comparison (if they are languages), but it definatley has an impact on the choice of .net vs php (can I add jsp since this thread won't seem to die?) 'approaches'.

    I am a simple minded in-house IT developer for a mid sized government organization that needs to recommend a 5 year or so plan for the future. I confess most of my experience is using VBA stuff in MS Access/SQL Server with very little web experience . What I have done in the web has been php/mySql.

    Internally we are growing out of MS Access and we are 'catching up' to the web...so I am trying to standardize on something that serves well within the enterprise and on the web. Given our internal MS bias .net is the obvious choice except for security!!!

    PS. Does anyone actually use Java and JSP?

    Perhaps I am in the wrong thread?

  4. #354
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    I should add that my security question is coming from having to deal with management types. From the developer perspective, it is moot in this thread. Still I need help charting a course around MS security taboo!!!

  5. #355
    Non-Member coo_t2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dwightb

    PS. Does anyone actually use Java and JSP?

    Perhaps I am in the wrong thread?
    <gratuitous sarcasm>

    Yes you want the java vs. godzilla thread, second door down on the right.

    BTW, I just saw a Microsoft press conference on MSNBC.
    Bill gates has announced the unveiling of PHP.NET .
    When asked why they chose to add the popular web scripting language to the .NET family, Bill Gates responded, "Have you seen the size of that thread on sitepointforums.com? Hopefully this will put an end to it once and for all."

    </gratuitous sarcasm>

    --ed

  6. #356
    SitePoint Wizard silver trophy Jeremy W.'s Avatar
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    There is actually a PHP.NET

    As far as your internal matters, you need to break down what security is first. It's far too vague of a word. You then need to approach it from whatever angle the manager in particular is looking from and find the best technology for the job from that perspective.

    Every choice you make is a compromise, especially in a 5-year plan. Increased security for increased costs is a typical one, for instance

    So, what you need to identify is if this is actually taboo, or if the conflict at hand is in fact weighted against .NET (wanting Open Source software, for instance).

    If it's taboo, tackle it head on. Don't talk about .NET, talk through the desires of management and what they are actually looking for. Create a table with the needs on one side, PHP (for instance) in the middle and .NET on the right. See how they actually stack up to the company's needs.

    But hey, that's just how I'd handle it. You could also just buy the company out

    J
    SVP Marketing, SoCast SRM
    Personal blog: Strategerize
    Twitter: @jeremywright

  7. #357
    SitePoint Author silver trophybronze trophy
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    For dev use, I have a Pentium Pro 233 w/ 196mb RAM running IIS, PHP, MySQL, MSSSQL & .NET apps. Not the fastest thing on earth, but for development use it is quite adequate.

    Actually, developing on an ancient machine is better in some ways--efficency becomes alot more apparent there whereas a modern machine would just power through it.

    WWB

  8. #358
    ☆★☆★ silver trophy vgarcia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dwightb
    PS. Does anyone actually use Java and JSP?
    Yes, lots of people; myself included .

  9. #359
    Non-Member coo_t2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremy W.
    There is actually a PHP.NET

    J
    You mean for mono?
    How well is that project doing(mono I mean)? Is it good enough to use yet?
    I'll have to give it a look.

    --ed

  10. #360
    SitePoint Wizard silver trophy Jeremy W.'s Avatar
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    No, for .NET. There are actually 3 separate implementations of PHP.NET. Mono's doing good. Several stable releases, we're still testing on it and it's doing good
    SVP Marketing, SoCast SRM
    Personal blog: Strategerize
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  11. #361
    Non-Member coo_t2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremy W.
    No, for .NET.
    Wow, I need to keep up with the times.

    --ed

  12. #362
    Anonymous
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    memory loss using compiled programs over the internet is huge.
    over a network cool but not the net.
    yet to see or use a good site using ASP.NET.
    this site is unfortunate as I started with asp and it was terrible.
    went to university, learnt php on top of jsp,c,java,etc.
    no comparison to php.
    is there a guid generator yet or a function for reverse DNS lookups.
    previously you had to build modules in other languages to get any power usage out of the asp/vb combination.
    if this hasn't changed then the comments on this site are by novices.

  13. #363
    SitePoint Wizard silver trophy Jeremy W.'s Avatar
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    Once again, another user that hasn't used ASP.NET, comparing it to the old ASP. Some days I wish Microsoft would have changed the name.
    SVP Marketing, SoCast SRM
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  14. #364
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    yet to see or use a good site using ASP.NET.


    It doesn't half suck

  15. #365
    SitePoint Wizard silver trophy Jeremy W.'s Avatar
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    The reality is that a large portion of what MS develops these days is being developed in C# (.NET). One of the few exceptions is SQL Server, though they are still developing a lot of the reporting side of things in .NET.

    How do I know? I know more than 20 of the Group Program Managers personally. And I've seen the code.

    The question, of course, is how you know:

    1. That PHP is faster
    2. That .NET is slower
    3. That developing in .NET is more expensive
    4. That Microsoft has no confidence in .NET
    5. That Microsoft isn't developing in .NET for their apps
    6. That Mono will be the death of Windows
    7. [ insert Slashdot myth here ]

    Sorry mate, but this is one developer community where you won't find an open ear for illogical, unproven spouting, and you won't get "modded up" for saying 'the obvious'.
    SVP Marketing, SoCast SRM
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  16. #366
    SitePoint Wizard Dangermouse's Avatar
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    "How do I know? I know more than 20 of the Group Program Managers personally. And I've seen the code"

    All good and well knowing 20 program managers and seeing the code, but neither show whether ASP is quicker than PHP.

    And frankly, at the end of the day, who cares. Im sure PHP could be just as slow/fast as asp if written badly/refined. And ASP could be just as slow/fast as php written badly/refined.

    We have 8 pages of disagreements and come to what conclusion?

  17. #367
    SitePoint Wizard silver trophy Jeremy W.'s Avatar
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    Erm... All of my comments were in relation to "why doesn't MS use .NET?". I should have been more clear on that. Sorry
    SVP Marketing, SoCast SRM
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  18. #368
    SitePoint Wizard Dangermouse's Avatar
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    I apologise too, just re read it

  19. #369
    SitePoint Wizard silver trophy Jeremy W.'s Avatar
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    hehe, btw, it's 15 pages
    SVP Marketing, SoCast SRM
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  20. #370
    SitePoint Wizard Dangermouse's Avatar
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    Pages (8): First ... 4 5 6 7 [8]


  21. #371
    SitePoint Wizard silver trophy Jeremy W.'s Avatar
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    Pages (15): First ... 11 12 13 14 [15]
    SVP Marketing, SoCast SRM
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  22. #372
    SitePoint Wizard Dangermouse's Avatar
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    I give up

  23. #373
    SitePoint Wizard silver trophy Jeremy W.'s Avatar
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    hehe, me too... Anyways, at least we aren't arguing. Or something...
    SVP Marketing, SoCast SRM
    Personal blog: Strategerize
    Twitter: @jeremywright

  24. #374
    Wanna-be Apple nut silver trophy M. Johansson's Avatar
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    hehe - you can define the amount of posts per page in your profile setting, so both of you are right.
    Mattias Johansson
    Short, Swedish, Web Developer

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  25. #375
    SitePoint Wizard silver trophy Jeremy W.'s Avatar
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    Well, no, cause it's 16 pages for me now
    SVP Marketing, SoCast SRM
    Personal blog: Strategerize
    Twitter: @jeremywright


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