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  1. #376
    SitePoint Wizard Dangermouse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremy W.
    hehe, me too... Anyways, at least we aren't arguing. Or something...
    Yes we are!


  2. #377
    SitePoint Wizard silver trophy Jeremy W.'s Avatar
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    No we aren't
    SVP Marketing, SoCast SRM
    Personal blog: Strategerize
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  3. #378
    SitePoint Wizard silver trophy Jeremy W.'s Avatar
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    Actually, there are several flavours of PHP.NEt, so yes you can load PHP code in. At last count there were more than 87 languages that .NET could be programmed in.

    I realise you're looking at things from an environment point of view, but I never really got the point.

    You can't port your skills (literally) from dozens of languages to PHP, you can only consumer resources of other applications. The difference is huge.

    .NET you can program in the language, thus porting your skills completely. You can also port applications over, something you can't really do in PHP as most apps aren't web-based. Your Windows-based ones are useless.

    As such, PHP's only real strength in this area is to allow the porting of individual code segments into smaller projects which need to consume 'tidbits' of a larger application.

    Really, I don't see what this has to do with the underlying debate. Being able to program in any language (practically) imaginable is .NET's strength. You can't do that with PHP.

    If you're saying PHP's strength is to have other language's code built into individual PHP pages, we can argue that separately.

    Personally, again, I don't see the point. Unless I'm grabbing a snippet of logic from someone, or whatnot, the only time that's useful is if I've got a mate who programs in one of the very few PHP'able languages who wants to help out on a project.

    Feel free to expand my mind though
    SVP Marketing, SoCast SRM
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  4. #379
    ********* wombat firepages's Avatar
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    ahh cheers for the link , great article , even more interesting URL, + the article index linked to another article by Rasmus ...

    Despite what the future may hold for PHP, one thing will remain constant. We will continue to fight the complexity to which so many people seem to be addicted. The most complex solution is rarely the right one. Our single-minded direct approach to solving the Web problem is what has set PHP apart from the start
    amen.

  5. #380
    SitePoint Wizard silver trophy Jeremy W.'s Avatar
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    I don't even know where to start...
    SVP Marketing, SoCast SRM
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  6. #381
    SitePoint Wizard bbolte's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremy W.
    I don't even know where to start...
    LOL

  7. #382
    ********* wombat firepages's Avatar
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    I don't forsee a massive MS decline unless they fail to keep up with the times, I dont see that happening and there are many signs that they are doing exactly that in some ways (check out sourceforge for some open-source MS)

    I dont personally subscribe the the MS is evil theme..

    "Thanks in part to Microsoft, I can scarcely afford to buy a Linux machine"

    err I think its the other way around.
    That MS pressure/cajole manufacturers into pre-installing the OS is a common business practice that anyone wanting to make money would employ ... unlike Mac who control the hardware & have you by the short and curlies...

    So basically I think its a mistake to bring MS myths & legend into a PHP vs .NET debate , Apple & SUN are no better , it is after all big business & that is (right or wrong) what big business does.

    I also think its quite possible to make the PHP case without it , in fact just browse the web to see the proof in the pudding , MS server share is not growing its falling , apache continues to climb , PHP market share continues to rise depite viable open-source alternatives such as mod_perl , the `PHP is only good for home-pages` (which was never right in the first place) line is now hard for even the most ardent pro-.NET posters here to argue.

    (points again to Rasmus's quote)

  8. #383
    ********* wombat firepages's Avatar
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    just looked at the original article for the first time in nearly 2 years ...

    1) 0 still not proven either way
    2) +1 still true (though PHP getting a PERL extension soon & you can include C/C++ as a PHP language since you can write PHP modules in it)
    3) 0 daft & same as 5 anyway
    4) 0 never a point in the first place
    5) -1 daft , even given example is daft , plenty of free editors & FTP clients out there for all languages
    6) -1 ... still waiting

    So I still see that as an overall win for PHP , cool or what !

  9. #384
    SitePoint Wizard silver trophy Jeremy W.'s Avatar
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    1. Speed

    "To achieve the same effect with PHP, Zend and PHP accelerator must be installed "

    I'd say that is still true. Or, are you saying that out of the box PHP is faster than .NET?

    2. More Language Support

    27 officially supported languages. Nearly 100 unofficially. What does PHP have, maybe 5? 10?

    3. Your Choice of Development Environments

    There is a huge amount of choice in IDE's for .NET. Not sure why it's daft. The IDE is one of .NET's greatest strengths.

    4. It's Part of .NET

    All through this debate it's been said that the framework and ASP.NET are two separate things. As such, the native availability of the framework is a plus, not daft.

    5. It's Cheaper to Develop for

    Daft or not, at the time it was a succint point. Why? To quote a leading competing article at the time "Developing PHP is free. Developing .NET is cost restrictive".

    6. It's Cross-Platform

    Still waiting? I count SuSE, RedHat, BSD, MacOS and 'general Linux support' under the various Mono Beta 2's. Or does it not count because it's in Beta? I'd so love it if you said yes
    SVP Marketing, SoCast SRM
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  10. #385
    ********* wombat firepages's Avatar
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    1) on a shared server with say 200 domains? for sure , 1 on 1 PHP probably requires the Cache to compete , so calling it even as theres no proof that accellerated PHP is any faster or slower than .NET so still =0

    2) there is no advantage for me in that though I can see its a bonus & thats why I gave .NET a +1 on that

    3) the point elaborated on the 'free' nature of the IDE as it has 1 of them ..which is the same as point 5 , free and commercial IDE's exist for PHP so its even , still =0

    4) PHP is part of the open-source movement , how useful that is, is as subjective as is how useful the .NET framework is ? if you count the .NET framework then you have to be fair and give PHP linux ,apache, postgresql, mysql... etc , so not a point

    5) ... but developing PHP IS free (or should I say can be if you so wish (bar the hardware)) , that the author paid for a text editor is here nor there. The TCO argument will continue endlessley but at brass tacks level with hardware and a modem I can develop for free. (I dont I use windows) .NET -1

    6) ... sorry , still waiting, its been a while now .NET-1

  11. #386
    SitePoint Addict Ramiro S's Avatar
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    First of all I'm not saying this is better than this... every piece of software has its own grounds depending the needs and lots of factors but I feel this is somthing like prostitution (hahah yeah I'm crazy! ) not counting people that use both open and propietary soft with something in their minds a lot of people stills prefers to pay and feel safe. At least they have someone to bother or someone to blame.

    I feel like a lot of people doesn't trust open source yet. And a lot of people still don't see the benefits of mixing both open and paid software.

    Right now you will see lots of cases (I'm in this group) of people doing entire systems based on PHP shile some people will say why are you doing that? use this or that software.

    Anyway... it is a matter of choices... .in web programming you will see lots of sites using ColdFusion, ASP, ASP.NET, JSP, PHP... everything depends on the needs and the knowledge of the people who is in charge of the programming but there are still lots of people confused or with poor knowledge about deep technical things. Personally I feel the market is a mess because usability is not based on quality but in witch software sales the most or can guarantee you a better job or at least a chance to get it while in the other hand you are killling productivity and fresh ideas.
    Quasar - Web Development - Free Avatars


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