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  1. #1
    runat="server" Golgotha's Avatar
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    just when you thought you had skills...

    sometimes when I start to think I have just a little bit of web design/development skill, I see a site like http://www.yulia-nau.de/splash.htm and then I am humbled again. Some people just got mad skills!!!

  2. #2
    + platinum's Avatar
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    heh, that mixer is the best fun

  3. #3
    . Ruchir's Avatar
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    Re: just when you thought you had skills...

    Originally posted by Golgotha
    sometimes when I start to think I have just a little bit of web design/development skill, I see a site like http://www.yulia-nau.de/splash.htm and then I am humbled again. Some people just got mad skills!!!
    Amazing use of ActionScript and Flash,.. and that image morphs with mouse movements.. just an amazing creation !! loved it... cant imagine the time the maker required to put in... if the maker was the same person who wants to be the DJ . i think she shouldn't be a DJ, but a flash designer/developer !!
    Peace.

  4. #4
    gingham dress, army boots... silver trophy redux's Avatar
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    amazing site indeed...but i somehow doubt she put it together herself...
    re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively
    [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.]
    WaSP Accessibility Task Force Member
    splintered.co.uk | photographia.co.uk | redux.deviantart.com

  5. #5
    SitePoint Zealot superbrava's Avatar
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    if you think that is good check out http://www.egomedia.com and http://www.theory7.com ...those blow my mind.
    Steve v3.2.2 running on LocalSuck port 80

  6. #6
    Don't get too close, I bite! Nicky's Avatar
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    Some extremely talented people around!

  7. #7
    SitePoint Wizard Ian Glass's Avatar
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    They all tell me to get the flash player... :-(

    Yes, I'm just here to cause trubble. :-p

    ~~Ian

  8. #8
    Your Lord and Master, Foamy gold trophy Hierophant's Avatar
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    I have flash and while the first site had a nice design, I didn't like the other two, especially EGO7 which acts like it is taking over my machine.

    The things I hated worst about them includes multiple worthless and pointless splash screens. The first site can easily combine the two they have into one functional one. Better yet if they were a truly talented developer, they would check my browser's language settings and set it appropriately. The second thing that bothers me is that I am on ADSL with 1.5 mbps download and they expect me to wait more than a minute to load their webpage? They need to get a life and get real if that is the case.

    I can honestly say that I won't be visiting any of them again. Which is a shame since I liked the music on the first page, just not willing to jump through their hoops to get to it, as there are a million other musicians out there who would appreciate my business and aren't full of themselves.
    Wayne Luke
    ------------


  9. #9
    runat="server" Golgotha's Avatar
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    yeah, everyone has their own opinion on what they like and don't, but I would agree, there are some definite do's-and-dont's in web design. And for me, one is never touch a persons browser, that is the biggest no no in my book.

    That first site loads quickly for me with my DSL con?

    I like your idea of checking the browser language and redirecting, good one.

    But, all these people got some mad skills

  10. #10
    SitePoint Member Pilgrim's Avatar
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    why not give credit where credit's due!

    all semantics aside, the skill used in producing the yulia-nau site is impressive, way beyond my meagre capabilities...
    You know that somewhere,
    there's someone who's out there,
    who thinks like you do...

  11. #11
    Prolific Blogger silver trophy Technosailor's Avatar
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    it's good but it's Flash....terrible for accessiblity. Say to flash sites.

    Aaron
    Aaron Brazell
    Technosailor



  12. #12
    runat="server" Golgotha's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Sketch
    it's good but it's Flash....terrible for accessiblity. Say to flash sites.

    Aaron
    'accessibility', that's a pretty broad term there. But, no matter, your statement makes it clear you are a Flash hater.

    Flash is just another tool, like HTML, like PHP, like JavaScript, like Photoshop, it's all about how you use those tools in development. You can use them all or none of them. The tool doesn't make a great website. The designer/developer does.

    I'm not going to sit here and tell you how great Flash is, if you want to knock it, fine, but accessibily is a weak argument. Your best argument is that it's not SE friendly.

    And lastly, I'm sure that site was right on the mark for its target audience.

  13. #13
    Prolific Blogger silver trophy Technosailor's Avatar
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    My argument is that it won't display on my PDA and it can't be interpretted by text-readers. Accessibility-wise...the site is weak.

    Sketch
    Aaron Brazell
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  14. #14
    runat="server" Golgotha's Avatar
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    oh, I see, so the 1% nich makes it weak

  15. #15
    Prolific Blogger silver trophy Technosailor's Avatar
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    yes it does. When it comes to accessiblity, if the 1% can't see it, then it's inaccessible. Sorry to take a hard line, but that's the nature of accessiblity. I don't really feel like arguing about it. If you want to get self righteouss about it, go right ahead, but it changes nothing. A Flash site is plain and simply inaccessible. Period. Like it or not.

    Aaron
    Aaron Brazell
    Technosailor



  16. #16
    SitePoint Wizard iTec's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Golgotha
    oh, I see, so the 1% nich makes it weak
    actually it would be closer to 10%, given that an estimated 8% dont have flash player installed, plus you have the blind, wich would be a percent or two, people who arent blind but need text to be displayed larger.. possibly 3-5% (a guess). makes for a pretty unaccessible site really.

    If the site targets designers, is a personal/experimental site then there is absolutely nothing wrong with a 10minute pre loader and 100% flash.. but for a bussiness site, dont go trying to impress the audiance with your "mad skills" youll end up doing a boo.com.

    Flash is just another tool, like HTML, like PHP, like JavaScript, like Photoshop, it's all about how you use those tools in development. You can use them all or none of them. The tool doesn't make a great website. The designer/developer does.
    EXACTLY! Flash is a tool for embedding animation in a web page, it should complement the HTML, PHP, JS, PS ect.. not replace them.

  17. #17
    SitePoint Addict goma's Avatar
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    It's really slick. The actionscript must be wicked. But I've seen that menu before though. What grabbed me was the rest of the animation and the mixer. The designer / programmer (I don't think she made the side. probably someone else) took the time to crafted everything well and it shows.
    http://www.soapbox101.com

  18. #18
    SitePoint Wizard silver trophy Jeremy W.'s Avatar
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    I think one of the problems is that accessibility has become a buzzword, and many people don't know what it means.

    Accessibility isn't simply saying "can a user do what I want them to do". Accessibilty means "can users do what they need to do". Note that it isn't some users, it isn't a % of users even. It's users. Every single one.

    If you put accessibility as the first and foremost priority of your site, every user needs to be able to access it for what they want, how they want.

    This is why it's easy to say that not even 1% of sites have a true accessibility focus.

    Accessibility is one of those black or white areas. If you don't have a 100% focus on accessibility, then you really have a 0% focus on it. If you have it, but don't have a 100% score, then you really have a 0% score. You can't say "our site is accessible except for people who can't see red". That's not accessible, that's a site that isn't for colour blind people.

    So, your site may be good, I haven't looked, but when we say accessibility let's be clear on the meaning. Do it or don't. Don't make apologies either, every decision you make should be conscious
    SVP Marketing, SoCast SRM
    Personal blog: Strategerize
    Twitter: @jeremywright

  19. #19
    Prolific Blogger silver trophy Technosailor's Avatar
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    Here's another thought on accessibility with flash...

    1) unable to bookmark on right click
    2) unable to deeplink
    3) unable to use the back button on most

    all three affect 100% of users to a flash site.. thats 100 times the 1% you think suffer from accesibility.

    Try that on for size...

    Aaron
    Aaron Brazell
    Technosailor



  20. #20
    SitePoint Wizard silver trophy Jeremy W.'s Avatar
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    Originally posted by Golgotha
    Flash is just another tool, like HTML, like PHP, like JavaScript, like Photoshop, it's all about how you use those tools in development. You can use them all or none of them. The tool doesn't make a great website. The designer/developer does.
    Ah, but I'd love to see a great site using just one of the above. When was the last time you looked at a straight PHP site. No output, no graphix, and thought "wow". Ditto for Photoshop, no HTML. Ditto for JS...

    Flash though, it seems to be okay to do this, for some reason.
    SVP Marketing, SoCast SRM
    Personal blog: Strategerize
    Twitter: @jeremywright

  21. #21
    SitePoint Wizard Pedro Monteiro's Avatar
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    Re: just when you thought you had skills...

    Originally posted by Golgotha
    sometimes when I start to think I have just a little bit of web design/development skill, I see a site like http://www.yulia-nau.de/splash.htm and then I am humbled again. Some people just got mad skills!!!
    Oh dear god, how will I ever look at my web site again?

  22. #22
    runat="server" Golgotha's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Jeremy W.
    Accessibility isn't simply saying "can a user do what I want them to do". Accessibilty means "can users do what they need to do".
    And by this the client is the one that is the judge of whether it is accessible or not. Not some guy the surfs the internet with his PDA; Unless of course that's your target marktet, which this isn't.

    I stick with what I said, I'm sure this site is more than accessible to its target market.

    If 100% accessibility is your goal, than you would be correct, don't use Flash, also don't use JavaScript. Don't use CSS, don't use HTML passed version 3. Make sure is works in ALL browsers and PDA's and text readers.

    OK, so how many sites are 100% accessible??? NOT MANY THEN!!!

    Again, I don't think 100% accessibility was their goal.

    That's like looking at a Ferrari and saying, "well yeah, but it can't go off road, so it's useless" It's only useless if your goal is off roading...
    Last edited by Golgotha; Sep 8, 2002 at 18:16.

  23. #23
    Prolific Blogger silver trophy Technosailor's Avatar
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    Actually if you want to argue accessibility, CSS is accessibility, as is XHTML 1.1 as is XML as is all the things you actually have to put effort into.

    Not to say that no effort was put into the Flash thing. It's darn good and took awhile to make, I'm sure....

    But I don't care who your target audience is, every site should be endeavoring to be accessiblie. You're right that most are inaccessible in one way or another, but the effort should be made. Sites really don't have to do too much to be mostly accessible. Use Alt tags, use appropriate positioning (Remove all HTML and the plaintext version makes semse), use meta tags. It doesn't take alot, but it's laziness if you don't implement even basic accessibility features.

    Fact of the matter is, Flash doesn't have any of the basics....

    Sorry. Great work. Poor site.

    Aaron
    Aaron Brazell
    Technosailor



  24. #24
    SitePoint Wizard iTec's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Golgotha
    And by this the client is the one that is the judge of whether it is accessible or not. Not some guy the surfs the internet with his PDA;
    A websites purpose is to make money (in most cases) beit by promoting a brick and morter business, ecommerce or any of the other dozen forms of generating money. Now where does the money come from? The client or the guy surfing the net on his PDA?

    You have to options when building a website, the first is to give the client the website he wants, the second is to give the customer the website he needs. The first will please some people and possibly make the client happy, The second will make everybody happy except the client.. 6 months down the track, Take solution 1 and the client is unhappy with the site because nobody is using it, purchasing from it or whatever, take solution 2 and you have satisfied customers, the website is working and hopefully paying for itself, client wants to update whos he going to come to?

    That's like looking at a Ferrari and saying, "well yeah, but it can't go off road, so it's useless" It's only useless if your goal is off roading...
    No its not, you buy a ferrari with the sole purpose of looking good and going fast, you buy a PDA with the purpose of surfing the net and accessing the information you need when you need it.

    If 100% accessibility is your goal, than you would be correct, don't use Flash, also don't use JavaScript. Don't use CSS, don't use HTML passed version 3. Make sure is works in ALL browsers and PDA's and text readers.
    Actually it would be more along the lines of USE CSS and XHTML 1.1, use Javascript aslong as its not required, use flash, but only if it is not required.

    Using XHTML and CSS would mean your site would be backward compatible with and device that is able to pass plain HTML. using CSS would mean you could specify the "design" for screen, print, Speech browsers and PDA's, due to CSS/XHTML's seperation of presentation from content.

    If the browser does not support css then your page will be showen marked up in HTML only. This means headings will still apear as headings, paragraphs as paragraphs and so on.

    There is nothing wrong with using Javascript or Flash, only if they form an essential part of the functioning of the site.

  25. #25
    runat="server" Golgotha's Avatar
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    I'll quote myself--

    Originally posted by Golgotha

    That's like looking at a Ferrari and saying, "well yeah, but it can't go off road, so it's useless" It's only useless if your goal is off roading...
    YES, it's exactly like saying this...

    Tell me in what way they could have made this site better for demoing their music? What tool would better suit them then Flash to display there music?

    Someone said you buy a Ferrari to look good, YEAH and you use Flash to stream music in and have a site that looks good. THEY HAVE COMPLETELY HIT THE TARGET WITH THIS SITE. PERIOD...

    They used the right tool for the job. But, you guys are still crying because you can't take the Ferrari off road. OWELL, that's not why they made the Ferrari.


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