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  1. #26
    SitePoint Guru team1504's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by imaginekitty View Post
    OK, you. Back to the dungeon. Who let you out anyway?
    Ah okay. So are .asp or .aspx webpages built using asp or asp.net

    And dungeon? More like paradise. PHP works wonders for and with Ruby and Perl, I dont think ill ever need or want ASP or aspx or asp.net :P

    Sorry for being ignorant, but those languages work perfectly for me and always have.

  2. #27
    Chopped Liver bronze trophy imaginekitty's Avatar
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    Meanwhile, back at the topic at hand ...

    Quote Originally Posted by honeymonster View Post
    ASP.NET is suitable for websites of any size. From static one-page sites to millons of pages generating millions of hits every day.

    And the best thing is that it is the same basic principles which will scale all the way. And developer productivity scales as well. You can develop ASP.NET, HTML, CSS, JS as one person, or you can divide it up in a multi-role team. Thanks to features such as master pages, user controls, custom controls, 3rd party controls, themes and skinning, built-in localization, interceptable request pipeline etc etc.
    </thread>

  3. #28
    . shoooo... silver trophy logic_earth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by markbrown4 View Post
    I always recommend LAMP over the MS stack. It's simple...
    Simpler my.... Have you ever tried to manage 100 servers at once? Let me tell you. There is nothing simple about the LAMP stack compared to Microsoft's stack. Nothing.

    And free is meaningless when it takes twice as long to manage. Time is money in my field. The longer it takes the less money there is to be made.
    Logic without the fatal effects.
    All code snippets are licensed under WTFPL.


  4. #29
    padawan silver trophybronze trophy markbrown4's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by logic_earth View Post
    Simpler my.... Have you ever tried to manage 100 servers at once? Let me tell you. There is nothing simple about the LAMP stack compared to Microsoft's stack. Nothing.
    I was only meaning to compare the software, I have no desire to manage 1 server let alone 100.

    Quote Originally Posted by logic_earth View Post
    And free is meaningless when it takes twice as long to manage. Time is money in my field. The longer it takes the less money there is to be made.
    I assume you're again talking about maintaining servers?

    I did say I was only stating my own preference, I find ASP.NET webforms to be a convoluted pain in the ass. PHP executes top to bottom and is great for simpletons like me.

    The viewstate offends me.
    The page life cycle offends me.
    Abstracting the front-end offends me.
    I don't want to purchase a Microsoft product.

  5. #30
    SitePoint Evangelist praetor's Avatar
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    Web Forms are indeed a bit harder to grasp but asp.net Mvc is very simple ANd just for the record: I coded both in php and asp.net (web forms and mvc) and it's HORROR for me to touch php anytime it's needed.

    It's true that you can write high quality code in php but it will take you at least +25% or even +50% more time than with asp.net to accomplish something. I've tried the major PHP IDEs and none are a match for VS 2010 (with resharper). On top of that the language itself makes you spend more time if you want to do thing properly.
    Compare this
    Code PHP:
    class MyCLass
    {
        private $counter;
     
        function getCounter()
        {
          return $this->counter;
         }
    }
    to this
    Code Csharp:
    class MyClass
    {
     public int Counter {get;private set;}
    }

    You type less with C#, you have Enums and extension methods and if you're working on a complex application and use the MVC pattern you'll have code completion in the View.

    Some people have the wrong impression that you only drag and drop in VS or it's something of a design view in Dreamweaver which generates convoluted code. Proper code completion (fast and presenting only relevant documentation) will help you write code at least twice as fast than a simple code highlighting editor or a slow IDE.

  6. #31
    Resident OCD goofball! bronze trophy Serenarules's Avatar
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    To be fair, I used PHP for several years before my original freebsd server went kaput and was forced to make my workstation into a windows server, and there are some things about PHP that are actually easier than .NET. I've never really liked comparing them though as they were conceptually designed with different methodologies in mind, and subsequently do things differently. While true that c# has some nice things like auto-properties and generics, php has nice things too, like eval() and include(). Currently, they both have things like namespacing, reflection, and a vast array of built-in methods for IO, logging, email, and data access. They also both have good facilities for using libraries written in the opposing language. Honestly, I've never really understood all the hoopla on which is better than the other. Rather than pick one, learn both. My biggest client used linux machines, so guess what I used most of the time, despite my preference for c# on my personal projects?

  7. #32
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    I know that most of the readers of this forum are advanced users but as the owner/site manager for a small online store I found that our initial choice of an ASP.Net shopping cart package, while flexible and capability rich for the technically minded, proved overwhelming for me as I was taking time to figure out how to do things rather than what to do. If I'd known ASP.net already it wouldn't have been a problem. But we recently switched to www.Shopify.com to try to simplify.

    Jeff F
    Last edited by DaveMaxwell; Apr 11, 2011 at 11:30. Reason: removed self-promotional links

  8. #33
    SitePoint Guru Jason__C's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by markbrown4 View Post
    I was only meaning to compare the software, I have no desire to manage 1 server let alone 100.


    I assume you're again talking about maintaining servers?

    I did say I was only stating my own preference, I find ASP.NET webforms to be a convoluted pain in the ass. PHP executes top to bottom and is great for simpletons like me.

    The viewstate offends me.
    The page life cycle offends me.
    Abstracting the front-end offends me.
    I don't want to purchase a Microsoft product.

    Yawn...Typical talking points from a Linsucks user. Keep drinking the Kool-Aid and using your Linsucks flavor-of-the-month. While I use the best IDE and Server on the planet, and you are stuck in the command-line...what is this 1985? I can finish a duplicate project 2x faster then you = more $$$, so continue your zzzzz crusade. LAMP is Lame.
    Chuck Norris is so tough,
    mosquitos ask for permission before they bite him

  9. #34
    padawan silver trophybronze trophy markbrown4's Avatar
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    Off Topic:

    Quote Originally Posted by USPaperchaser View Post
    Yawn...Typical talking points from a Linsucks user. Keep drinking the Kool-Aid and using your Linsucks flavor-of-the-month. and you are stuck in the command-line...what is this 1985? I can finish a duplicate project 2x faster then you = more $$$, so continue your zzzzz crusade. LAMP is Lame.
    I was wondering when you might pop in and say hello.

    You can finish it twice as fast? Nice one

    Off now to fight in my zzzzzz crusade.

    ..Microsoft fanboys are the worst kind of fanboys.


    This point was worth replying to:
    While I use the best IDE and Server on the planet
    Visual Studio is best thing Microsoft has ever created, I agree.
    I simply haven't needed an ide for other frameworks/languages because they are simple enough to work without one.

  10. #35
    #titanic {float:none} silver trophy
    molona's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by USPaperchaser View Post
    Yawn...Typical talking points from a Linsucks user. Keep drinking the Kool-Aid and using your Linsucks flavor-of-the-month. While I use the best IDE and Server on the planet, and you are stuck in the command-line...what is this 1985? I can finish a duplicate project 2x faster then you = more $$$, so continue your zzzzz crusade. LAMP is Lame.
    Different people work differently have different needs. I don't think that .NET is better that PHP or vice-versa. Furthermore, I find that while ASP was very easy to use, .NET is not.

    I haven't used their IDE (in a few years) so I will believe that they have the best IDE there can be.

    Every programming language has its strong points and its weak points and .NET is not different to any other language.

  11. #36
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    molona's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by imaginekitty View Post
    I have both a linux (apache, php, mysql) host and a WinServer (WinServ, .NET, MSSQL) host. The PHP host is $7/month, the Window host is $5/month. :shrug:
    Off Topic:

    Wait, wait... afer reviewing the thread I just saw this... A Windows hosting that cost LESS than a PHP (I assume Linux) hosting? I've never found a company that charged less for hosting under Windows! This is the very first time!

  12. #37
    SitePoint Evangelist praetor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by molona View Post
    Off Topic:

    Wait, wait... afer reviewing the thread I just saw this... A Windows hosting that cost LESS than a PHP (I assume Linux) hosting? I've never found a company that charged less for hosting under Windows! This is the very first time!
    It depends on the host, for example I pay 4.95$ for shared windows hosting (because of a -50% promotion ), but I know hosts who charge the same at normal price. I wouldn't use them though..

    However, windows hosting usually is more expensive (not MUCH but more) than linux. For me it's worth it though, I can admin windows (I'm talking about VPS here ) and RDBMS, Mail servers etc much easier and faster than CentOs (I'm not a fan of control panels) and the standard servers and I develop faster with .Net no matter it's a simple or complex web application. Also, using the latest and greatest version of anything is a breeze as opposed to anything linux.

    Time is more than money and I save time with .net and windows.

  13. #38
    #titanic {float:none} silver trophy
    molona's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by praetor View Post
    Time is more than money and I save time with .net and windows.
    Now that's a reasoning that I find perfectly acceptable and understandable. But I guess that it really depends on your expertise and what you feel comfortable with. That's why I don't dismiss other languages and other ways of working so quickly.

    If I saw any drawback to .NET is that is extremely hard to find information about good coding practices and good examples so people can learn by themselves. There are tons of objects that you can use but most of the time you have to pay for them. Also good information about how to make the most of the resources.

    It is relatively easy to find basic stuff but hard to go mid-advanced.

    When you talk about PHP, it is much easier. I think that's also something that you need to take into account. You don't always have an expert to be able to help you.

  14. #39
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    ASP.net can be used for any kind of website. you'll have many features in that and for developer it works great. As far as hosting is concern it works fine.

  15. #40
    SitePoint Evangelist praetor's Avatar
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    If I saw any drawback to .NET is that is extremely hard to find information about good coding practices and good examples so people can learn by themselves. There are tons of objects that you can use but most of the time you have to pay for them. Also good information about how to make the most of the resources.
    I find it funny to read this, since I learn to write better code after I started to work with .net . And every pattern that works with java works with .net so you can leverage all the information from java.
    There are plenty of libraries that have a price but there are so many that are free and open source. I think you are 'forced' to pay only for some exotic stuff or if you really don't want to lose time coding yourself.

    When you talk about PHP, it is much easier. I think that's also something that you need to take into account. You don't always have an expert to be able to help you.
    Php makes so easy to write horrible code and in fact most of php code I've seen is a mess. Good code is self-explaining , I say you need more an expert for php to help you navigate the jungle than .net code. I know that plenty of .net code is as well horrible but at least the framework is well documented and VS does a good job at providing you with information.

  16. #41
    SitePoint Mentor NightStalker-DNS's Avatar
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    Wow, I think this thread has gotten a bit out of hand. There is no need for it to turn into a flame war. You will always get your fanboys from each platform and both are good and very able platforms. So choose what is right for you. And lets please keep this thread civilized.

  17. #42
    #titanic {float:none} silver trophy
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    Quote Originally Posted by praetor View Post
    Php makes so easy to write horrible code and in fact most of php code I've seen is a mess. Good code is self-explaining , I say you need more an expert for php to help you navigate the jungle than .net code. I know that plenty of .net code is as well horrible but at least the framework is well documented and VS does a good job at providing you with information.
    As I said before, this is my personal experience and nothing else. I always find harder to find information about what I want to do in .NET than in PHP.

    Regarding creating bad/good code, I don't think that it depends on the language itself but on the good understanding and experience of the programmer.

    Regarding documentation, I've never had a problem neither with .NET or with PHP which also extensively documented.

    Quote Originally Posted by NightStalker-DNS
    Wow, I think this thread has gotten a bit out of hand. There is no need for it to turn into a flame war. You will always get your fanboys from each platform and both are good and very able platforms. So choose what is right for you. And lets please keep this thread civilized.
    I'm ashamed to say that it may be my fault that we have drifted so much from the original topic. Sorry.

    Answering the original question: ASP (Classic or .NET) or PHP both are suitable for small, medium or large sites. It really depends on personal preference, the type of hosting you want to use and, more than anything, which one of them you feel most comfortable with.

  18. #43
    SitePoint Author silver trophybronze trophy
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    I'd really argue that ASP is unsuitable for anything anymore -- its 10 years old without an update at this point and really doesn't do basic things out of the box -- like file uploads. It would be folly to build anything new on that platform in 2011. Or even in 2005.

  19. #44
    #titanic {float:none} silver trophy
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    Quote Originally Posted by wwb_99 View Post
    I'd really argue that ASP is unsuitable for anything anymore -- its 10 years old without an update at this point and really doesn't do basic things out of the box -- like file uploads. It would be folly to build anything new on that platform in 2011. Or even in 2005.
    Completely agree. My reference to Classic was more due to the amount of old sites still there.

  20. #45
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    Isn't this a potential issue for some? Wordpress doesn't work with .Net, does it?

  21. #46
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    As my experience, It's not bad at all as it provides MSSQL or SQL on any server and along with that we get a freedom of utilizing end number of static pages.It also user friendly as other Microsoft Product.
    Last edited by DaveMaxwell; Apr 12, 2011 at 10:28. Reason: removed link

  22. #47
    . shoooo... silver trophy logic_earth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Why9999 View Post
    Isn't this a potential issue for some? Wordpress doesn't work with .Net, does it?
    What does Wordpress have to do with anything?
    Logic without the fatal effects.
    All code snippets are licensed under WTFPL.


  23. #48
    #titanic {float:none} silver trophy
    molona's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by logic_earth View Post
    What does Wordpress have to do with anything?
    I think that his point is that major CMS and blogging platforms don't work with .NET but with PHP and that's an issue if he ever wanted to move to .NET. It automatizes 90% of the process of creating a site.

    I know that there are CMSs and blog engines for .NET but their popularity is nothing compared to WP or Joomla or Drupal. It is just a fact, nothing else.

  24. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by logic_earth View Post
    What does Wordpress have to do with anything?
    A lot of people building smallish web sites would best stick with Wordpress...

  25. #50
    . shoooo... silver trophy logic_earth's Avatar
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    So it has to be Wordpress and nothing else? That is just silly.
    I fail to see how popularity has anything to do with it.
    Logic without the fatal effects.
    All code snippets are licensed under WTFPL.



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