Who uses Linux?

[tvakah]

I use Linux on my P166 for PHP SQL Perl POP3 IMAP Samba etc. Also I play games, render with POV-Ray play MP3z download MP3z encode MPEG-2 movies and anything else that windoze can do. I plan to build a Thunderbird 1Ghz system and run linux with VMware on it.

[tvakah]

Some points:
Linux and most of it's programs are open source, this means that you usually get a better support system, ALOT more custimizability, and integration with other programs.
Most people complain about the 'arcane' command line interface that underlies everything, but what are we moving towards with speech recognitions and natural language programs? We see a migration away from the point-and-click frustrattions of the Mac/Windows interface and a step towards the http://www.acm.org/cacm/AUG96/antimac.htm Anti-mac interface.
Windows is locked-in to the startbar desktop paradigm. Linux allows the administrator to shape the system to whatever the current needs are and still maintain compatibilty. This is the major reason why Linux is being favored over Windows for embedded systems.
Windows claims to be the leader in innovation, yet were in windows do I have virtual terminals, multiple desktops, or the ability to have two monitors, mice, and keyboards hooked up? Where in windows do I have filesystem level access control? Can you show me how to run two instances of the Windows Interface at the same time? Can you show me a Windows box that has been running for more that a year without reboot? In Linux, themes are to the window manager what skins are to winamp; in Windows, all I can do is change a few colors and sounds.
As far as game support is concerned, Quake and Unreal are already ported and Starcraft is in the works. 3D Studio Max is even being ported.
Now some people are happy with Windows because it does everything they want, and I have no problem with that, it's the same reason I use Linux. But if you are tired of having to reinstall everything on your computer every 3-6 months, having it 'run out of resources' when you only open a few browser Windows, and having to put up with the Blue Screen of death, then it is time to change.

'Yes, I am a criminal. My crime is that of curiosity. My crime is that of judging people by what they say and think, not what they look like. My crime is that of outsmarting you, something that you will never forgive me for.' --Hacker Manifesto

[Owen]

Uhhh... any (most) standard PC hardware works. Just take your current PC and install Linux on it and you are set. If you have common hardware, you will have no problems.

That's one advantage of MS Windows. You get some form of tech support. Linux provides very little. Sure there are lots of HOW-TOs and such, but usually they are pretty hard to understand. (If you buy a linux distribution, then it usually comes with 30 or 60 days of free email tech support.)

Get lots of OS quotes: http://coolsig.com/bin/getsig?os

I like "Windows: Just another pain in the glass." and "Love is Hate. War is Peace. Windows is stable." I couldn't find any pro-Windows ones there...

Owen

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote/font><HR>Originally posted by DIMA:
How much approx. would it cost to setup ones own server? Linux is "freeware" but the hardware etc. all the other server software.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

[Elledan]

Installing Linux for the first time is very, very hard, but when you get accustomed to manually installing, compiling and other useful stuf, you won't have many problems the second time you set up another Linux system.

I'm making fast progress with installing my own system, I've got everything installed, except for the soundcard (Trident 4DWave chipset) who needs to be configured through OSS (or something like that). I must say that the support database from SuSe helps me a lot.

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Elledan Dunedain
www.emudreams.web.com
Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet-engines

[Owen]

The SuSe database really is quite nice... It's a good reason as any to choose it over RedHat.

Owen

[Elledan]

Right after I had bought SuSu Linux, I was almost convinced that I had better chosen Red Hat since everyone seemed to like it, but it seemes like they had just never tried SuSE.

Even for a Linux Newbie like me it's relatively easy to set up the whole system. Main Problem is installing programs: when you've been used to the comfortable environment that's Windows with its cute setup programs, it's a shock to face reality. In Linux you see what's beneath the graphical interface and Terminal/DOS prompt. And you can do what you want, unless you're not a root-user

A question: does NT/2000 have a root user like in Linux? I don't know exactly how this goes, but since you can install programs as 'normal' user in NT I assume that it's not quite the same.

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Elledan Dunedain
www.emudreams.web.com
Everyone has a destiny in life. Some just never reach it

[Hierophant]

NT has an Administrator user which can be considered the equivalent of root. You can set the system up so that only the Administrator can install programs. It all depends on how your profiles and network is setup. This allows smaller companies or a household to have a more open architecture because they are less likely to have dedicated IT people, while it enables a large company to restrict anything and everything that could compromise security on the network.

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Wayne Luke - Sitepoint Forums Administrator
Digital Magician Magazine - MetaQuark Creations (Coming Soon)
sitepoint@digitalmagician.com

[Elledan]

So just like in Linux you can set permissions. Not much differences.

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Elledan Dunedain
www.emudreams.web.com
Everyone has a destiny in life. Some just never reach it

[RussellG]

Hey guys I got Turbolinux free with a PC magazine, is it any good? Remember I'm like a mega newbie when it comes to Linux

[Elledan]

TurboLinux isn't bad, it's just hard to set up if you're a real Newbie
I don't say you shouldn't try it with Turbo, but be warned that it won't be as easy as SuSe and RedHat.

SuSe Linux is also called 'the easiest Linux Distribution', but since it's the only one I've tried, I can't say how hard it can be.

Just try it out and see what happens!

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Elledan Dunedain
www.emudreams.web.com
Everyone has a destiny in life. Some just never reach it

[Aidan Bahta]

I have RedHat Linux, Linux Manrake, and BeOS installed on this computer (in addition to Windows 98). I haven't found a real use for any of these, they are just fun to play around in.

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Aidan Bahta
abahta@activewm.com

ActiveWM.com - The place for the Active Webmaster.

[Daniel]

I have been watching this post for a few days now and I feel I really must reply.

All I hear from you people are complaints about Microsoft and complaints about Windows. Come on guys, give them a chance!

Question: How long did it take you to install Linux? How long did it take you to get your distribution working perfectly with your computer? Now tell me how long you take to fix any problem with Windows. Chances are you've given hours of your time to Linux, but only a few minutes to Windows.

My point is this: as soon as one of you get a GPF in Windows you go complaining to every message board in the country telling other people how much you despise Windows. You don't try to fix the problem. However, it's a different story with Linux. Say, for example, you were having problems installing a package on Linux. You would of course spend a good while fixing the problem. Would you give this much attention to Windows? Probably not.

If you cared for your Windows OS then it would work fine. I get errors occasionally but most of them are caused by my faulty motherboard. If, however, I think that a problem isn't related to my motherboard, I will look up information the error on the web until I find exactly what is causing it. Then I will put it right. Usually it's an out-of-date driver or system file. It's not hard and certainly isn't a reason for me to convert to Linux.

And for those of you who go on about security issues, what are you talking about? My school ran a secure network with 30 machines, each machine running Windows 3.1. It used software from RM to give extra functionality such as access privilages, auditing tools and also to provide network communication. So don't talk to me about Windows security.

And also - if you need some extra functionality for Windows then go out and look for it on the web! There are thousands of enhancement utilities available (many for free) that can be used to spice up your OS. Many more than are available for Linux.

I'm not trying to say Linux is an undesirable product - I think it has undisputable potential. Once it gets more user-friendly, more "technically capable" (in relation to support for hardware) and gains a strong product base, I think many people will transfer to this amazing system.

But while we're waiting for that day, stop complaining about Windows, because Linux has many faults too. Nothing is perfect

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Daniel Irvine
F-Free - Free Stuff and Freebies!

[wdmny]

I don't understand why some of you are wasting your time bashing Microsoft or bashing Unix/Linux. I personally have a PC dedicated to Windows 98 and one dedicated to FreeBSD. I like both for different reasons, so if you don't like an OS, don't use it.

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Wes
Windows-Network
600 Web Studios

[Elledan]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote/font><HR>Originally posted by Wes DeMoney:
I don't understand why some of you are wasting your time bashing Microsoft or bashing Unix/Linux. I personally have a PC dedicated to Windows 98 and one dedicated to FreeBSD. I like both for different reasons, so if you don't like an OS, don't use it.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That would be extremely hard to accomplish: not all of the applications that work on one OS are available for the other OS. DreamWeaver, for example, is not available for Linux and so are many other programs.

I'm using Win98 almost only for webdesigning (DreamWeaver, Paintshop Pro, Reptile and others), while Linux is my favorite OS for browsing the Internet since it's extremely fast. And when I've finally configured the soundcard in Linux, I'll do a lot more things in this OS: Music Is Life

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Elledan Dunedain
http://elledan.virtualave.net
Everyone has a destiny in life. Some just never reach it

[wdmny]

I didn't say I used them together. I use the Unix box to play around with, and I am trying to learn the Ins and Outs of the OS. I am also going to start programming for it. I use Windows for the software: Web Design, Graphic Design, Programming, etc... Notice that I did say that I liked them for different reasons and that they were on 2 different computers.

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Wes
Windows-Network
600 Web Studios

[This message has been edited by Wes DeMoney (edited August 09, 2000).]

[Elledan]

Daniel: if you're talking about Windows 9x, you don't say 'give it a change'. I've spend two weeks ago more than two days trying to get a network with only Windows 9x PCs back in the air, without success. I found the solution in formatting the HD of all of the PCs and reinstalling Windows. Everything worked after that

Correcting errors on a Windows 9x system is pointless and time consuming, while Linux just doesn't have those errors. As a newbie like me you'll have trouble managing your system and learning 'manually' installing programs, but after you've mastered those skills, you'll prefer Linux over Windows.

Windows can't be used for anything, except running software that won't run in the Windows emulator for Linux (Wine is a good example). First thing I'll do when I've configured the soundcard is playing a 3DGame like HalfLife, Quake or equal, WITHOUT errors!

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Elledan Dunedain
http://elledan.virtualave.net
Everyone has a destiny in life. Some just never reach it

[Daniel]

Well once again you are comparing Windows and Linux in a way which is totally unfair.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I don't think Windows was designed to run 24/7. Linux was but Windows wasn't. Therefore you can't compare them in this way.

And Windows doesn't crash randomly... it needs something to "fuel" a crash. And two days running non-stop is bound to produce a few memory-leaks here and there..

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Daniel Irvine
F-Free - Free Stuff and Freebies!

[Aidan Bahta]

Daniel,
For one thing: I haven't complained about Windows. It isn't Microsoft's fault that all these problems happen - they would happen with any OS that owns 90%+ of the market.

As I believe someone else said before: 90% of the problems with computers are in Windows because 90% of the computers use Windows. If 90% of the world used Linux, I am sure that 90% of the problems would be there.

Linux was made for a different type of person than Windows was. Linux was NOT meant to be user friendly and it was certainly not made for newbies. Linux was developed (I think) to be a stable OS that is also very fast.

I do admit that I have never had Linux fully working on my computer - but it is not Linux's fault that it doesn't recognize stupid WinModems

It does not take a long time to set up Linux. It is not hard, either.

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Aidan Bahta
abahta@activewm.com

ActiveWM.com - The place for the Active Webmaster.

[CJ]

Nitegold, I'm trying to say that for over a week now, but I never could have found the words you have found

Most problems on my PC are caused by none-microsoft products although I work with MS products 95% of the time. Seems a lot but you CAN do everything with MS products. The 5% therefore is ICQ, WinAmp, Gator, Napster and mIRC (which I'm gonna uninstall very shortly) and some PhotoShop and other programs. Most prbs are caused by ICQ and Napster and Netscape not weird to the fact they're all free and none-microsoft.

Christophe

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Freesources.net - the ultimate webmaster resources site
WebmasterCJ design - opening new worlds for small prices

[Elledan]

So you mean that if you use only Microsoft products in Windows, you won't have any problems? Did anyone say 'blackmail'?

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Elledan Dunedain
http://emudreams.tsx.org

Everyone has a destiny in life. Some just never reach it

[James]

Well said nitegold!
The only reason Windows has so many bugs is that it has a bigger market share than anything else...therefore there are more users to find bugs. It is impossible to make an OS that performs well on every single hardware combination. I would imagine that if every Windows user installed Linux on their systems today, loads of bugs would be found.
Linux is too new to the OS world to be bug free - it only seems that way because it has been run in so few hardware configurations that people just haven't found all the problems yet.
Many bugs in Windows only occur in very specific hardware and software configurations - and I'm sure the same configuration exists in Linux.
I installed Linux on my spare machine the other day...it wouldn't work. I reformatted and re-installed 6 times over a period of 2 weeks to try and get it going (randomly choosing either Caldera or SuSe). Not once did it reliably work. Sometimes it would boot up once and never again...sometimes it just wouldn't boot at all. I have since reloaded the computer with Windows 2000.
So, to summarize, no-one can say Linux is 'bug-free' until it has been more widely adopted as a desktop OS.

I realise that people aren't saying Linux is completely bug-free, but people are saying that it has significantly less bugs than Windows, which I believe to be an unfair statement.
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James Ussher-Smith, jamesus@lineone.net
ICQ: 41716548
640 Kilobytes of computer memory ought to be enough for anybody. - Bill Gates, 1981


[This message has been edited by James (edited August 10, 2000).]

[Elledan]

James: IF Linux runs on a PC, it has the fantastic ability to keep running without crashing, a feature that Windows (9x) clearly lacks. I've never been able to run Windows 98 for longer than two days (on five totally different systems!), so even though Windows may run on more configurations than Linux, Windows still has the intriguing ability to crash randomly

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Elledan Dunedain
http://emudreams.tsx.org

Everyone has a destiny in life. Some just never reach it

[Owen]

Last weekend I replaced my Rive128 graphics card with a TNT2 graphics card and my PS/2 mouse with a cordless USB mouse.

When I booted up Linux today, in the middle of the bootup, a screen poped up and said "New hardware found. Do you want to configure with Kuduzu?" (Kuduzu is RedHat's poorly named configuration tool.)

I said sure.

It then said "Riva 128 not detected. Do you want to remove drivers?" I said sure. It then said "TNT 2 detected. Do you want to configure?" I said sure. It then asked me if I wanted to test the card with the default resolution of 1280x1024 @ 32 bits. I said sure. It tested and failed. It then showed me a list of resolutions and I picked one and it tested again. It worked and then did the same thing for my PS/2 -&gt; USB mouse.

That's plug and play on the level of MS Windows, if you ask me.

Owen

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www.pbbt.com- the best humor, jokes, and "funnystuff" on the Internet!

[CJ]

Actually I think Windows does it at the end of the boot up

Christophe

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Freesources.net - the ultimate webmaster resources site
WebmasterCJ design - opening new worlds for small prices

[Elledan]

James: If you've read the magnificient post of Wayne in the 'Make Windows9x crash with ease' thread, you'll understand that Windows is just doomed to crash more than Linux since Linux is 100% 32 bits.

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Elledan Dunedain
http://emudreams.tsx.org

Everyone has a destiny in life. Some just never reach it