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  1. #1
    SitePoint Wizard Stomme poes's Avatar
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    Spammers: I HATE YOU

    Hate. It's such a heavy word, isn't it? We look into the eyes of a sweet orphan child and recall the words of some great prophet or other and say to ourselves, hate is such an evil thing, destroying our hearts and bringing things to a dark end and all... we shouldn't hate, we should love.

    Or something. Whatever.

    But I HATE SPAMMERS.

    They steal from me.
    The rob my time.
    The break my tools.

    They make everything suck with their sleeeze. THEY are a source of suckage.

    Read this. Please.
    Google’s decreasingly useful, spam-filled web search.

    Someone invents an awesome tool. It's useful and we use it. Like teh interwebs, a way to spread useful information.

    Spammers break it.

    Someone invents e-mail. We can contact people!

    Spammers break it.

    We switch to something else: MSN, bloggities, social networks.

    Spammers break it.

    We try twitter.

    Spammers break it. The number of spammer followers I've blocked is twice the size of my actual followers list. I mention Vim Golf; some GolfUSA starts trying to follow me, hoping I will buy golf garbage. I don't golf. I hate golf. It's a retarded game where rich old men wear ugly clothes and hit little balls with metal sticks. You didn't even read what I said: GOLF in programming ISN'T HITTING LITTLE BALLS SO GO AWAY. But you ruined my day with your garbage spam. I had to waste time blocking your garbage and reporting you... which will do nothing, because if someone closes your account, you'll make another. Or 10.

    We use search engines to find information: the web is just too big to find everything we want by reference alone.

    Spammers break it. You can't find anything useful on more and more topics because people use the words you look for to say NOTHING. They somehow get paid because you were fooled into clicking, if only for the moment it took for you to realise they've wasted your time and you hit the BACK button. YOU SHOULD PAY ME FOR THAT CLICK, BUDDY.
    You convince teh SE's to tell you what we are searching for so you can ruin our lives even more. (Oh and I don't use Duck-duck-go; there's Scroogle and Ixquick and who knows what else)

    And the worst thing is, many of these spammers don't think they are spammers. They're sitting right here, on SitePoint forums and other forums, asking about keyword density, SEO, whether content scrapers and spinners are alright (wtf? DIE) and which types to use. SPLOGS. How to use affiliate marketing, affiliate links, affiliate spam. Spam spam spam. You can have what you want so long as it's spam spam spam. Affiliate is now a dirty word, thanks to you! "But wait, I'm not garbage, I'm an SEO professional!" Uh, exactly: your job is TO BREAK THE GOOGLES, to make something come out on top REGARDLESS OF HOW USEFUL IT ACTUALLY IS TO SEARCHERS. Now those who really DO have the content and the products we want have to come to YOU just to try to rise above the spam... and still fail.

    YOU BROKE MY MAILING LISTS.

    YOU BROKE MY TOOLS.

    YOU BROKE MY INTERNET.

    You owe me for my time you've stolen when I looked for something, signed up for something, tried to talk to someone, and YOU answered with nothing but empty nothings, sales, promises, marketing, and garbage. AND PILLS. You know, why don't you try to sell me a bazooka so I can track you down and tell you what I REALLY THINK.

    I want to take you and use you as personal pets to fetch me beer out of the fridge for a year. I want you to physically carry me and my friends and my things on your backs to wherever I want to go. Then I want you to go away and do something useful like make me a sandwich.

    Hate is a strong word. When I'm robbed, of time and energy, I think I can say I'm not enlightened enough (sorry Siddharta) to turn the other cheek and say I love you. I hate you. I hate you all.

    Because you get away with it. You never die. You never go away.

    But the Internets, they exist for companies to earn money, right? I can't just sit back and expect free content like some entitled dirty hippy scum, right? Uh, no, I'm paying for access to information that other human beings (IE NOT SPAMMERS) are already offering for free. And if I'm looking for a product someone is selling, I don't want YOUR VERSION. Don't stop me from finding those who are actually selling what I DO want. Don't steal their content and spout pseudo-babble to "push them down in the rankings" because I don't want you, I want THEM. SPAMMERS, you prevent legitimate businesses from earning money on the Internet. Your arguments are retarded, because any "information" you think you offer (which you stole from others), someone else has already offered without ADS FOR HERPES TREATMENTS and GIVE HER THE HANDBAG SHE DESERVES. You offer NOTHING of value. You only destroy.

    First WE built everything, developers in their free time, people's time building communities. What's the value in facebook and twitter and mailing lists and forums? The people who spend their time there, offer their knowledge and support there (for FREE), that's what. And you come along and break it all. We leave, fleeing the garbage. We try a new area, and for just a fleeting moment, there is relief. But you follow, and break everything, stink it up with your GET RICH QUICK, LIST YOUR SITE, EBAY CASH MACHINE, CHEAP DRUGS, EMAIL LISTINGS and MAKE HER SMILE garbage.

    Of course, the absolute worst thing about it is, some of us are listening to you. Some of us are answering you, giving you money, spreading you around. Because if nobody replied, clicked on those links, bought those enhancement drugs, you would vanish. I hate you because YOU ARE ALSO OUR OWN FAULT. I hate me, even though I never clicked you, never bought you, never read you, but enough of my friends did that you could tell YOUR friends "this is the way to go".

    Spammers, I HATE YOU. I hate you with all my worth. Sorry Confucious, I'm not a lady. Sorry Jesus and Muhammad, I cannot love here. No higher standards for me I guess.

    All is doomed.

    gucci handbags

  2. #2
    It's all Geek to me silver trophybronze trophy
    ralph.m's Avatar
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    Hey friend, nice post!.....................

    Quote Originally Posted by Stomme poes View Post
    why don't you try to sell me a bazooka
    Hey, you want bazooka? We got good deals on all new range bazooka, go cheap coz post xmas, you know,buy now.........

    thank you to posting this for us.we follow you on twitter

    cheap bazooka | all you want bazooka | good stuff

    Off Topic:


    meh, there are billions of nasty viruses and creepy crawlies the world over that we have to fight against our whole lives. We just have to deal with them as best we can. Stop anthropomorphizing spammers. They're just more of the same.

  3. #3
    SitePoint Wizard Stomme poes's Avatar
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    Thanks for posting........

  4. #4
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    Honey, I didn't thought you had it in you! I'm impressed. Good work(out)! Nice finish

    But let me tell you this: you ARE a lady

    And you, being a cat and all that, should understand fleas will never let you be.

  5. #5
    From Italy with love silver trophybronze trophy
    guido2004's Avatar
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    Great post! Even your avatar is in style

  6. #6
    SQL Consultant gold trophysilver trophybronze trophy
    r937's Avatar
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    excellent post

    regarding the impact in sitepoint forums, naturally we ban spammers, but i have always felt strongly that anyone who posts a fake sig should just be flat out banned immediately too

    ~especially~ the seo kiddies
    rudy.ca | @rudydotca
    Buy my SitePoint book: Simply SQL
    "giving out my real stuffs"

  7. #7
    Keep Moving Forward gold trophysilver trophybronze trophy
    Shaun(OfTheDead)'s Avatar
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    I had an e-mail address (back before I knew that mailto: links are a bad idea) that used to get about 300 spam e-mails a day.

    Actually, it's also a bit of fallout from when I tried using Blue Frog / Blue Security (see Sitepoint thread).



    So I started saving some of the funnier/weirder ones with the plan to make a mini-website of cartoons drawn from the subjects.

    Such classics as, "Your manhood will fly like a white dove - independent and free."

    uhh...



    I got this really funny one from the alleged Bill Gates Foundation, offering me a pile of money I won in a lottery I never entered.

    You need to see the graphic though.

    Attached Images Attached Images
    Trying to fill the unforgiving minute
    with sixty seconds' worth of distance run.

    Update on Sitepoint's Migration to Discourse

  8. #8
    Robert Wellock silver trophybronze trophy xhtmlcoder's Avatar
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    Wow flying, it didn't know it could do that... How do you train it to fly? Maybe I need to start a topic similar to JREAM. 'How to make my parts fly?'

    Look on the bright-side Poes it gives you more focus on what to legitimately hate in the world, i.e. Spam.

  9. #9
    SitePoint Mentor silver trophy
    Rubble's Avatar
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    I have said the same thing about search engine results before; looking to buy a TV and you get the electrical sites selling the TV and a few hundred sites - some rated higher than the one selling the TV - with links to the same sites Google has found

    Want to research a programming problem? One site has posted the answer/information you want but even more sites have copied the information from the site with the answer and reposted it or just posted a link to the first site.

    Sometimes you have to wade through pages and pages of crap to find what you want.

    All just to make money and make my life harder.

    Email spam is not to bad now as I filter it on my server and delete it straight away and 99% of what gets through is picked up by my email program and moved straight into the junk folder. A quick scan through every now and again to make sure there is nothing in there I want and delete it all.

    I suppose it is not all the spammers fault its the idiots that buy from them.

  10. #10
    ✯✯✯ silver trophybronze trophy php_daemon's Avatar
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    Careful there, it's a fine line between love and hate
    Saul

  11. #11
    SitePoint Wizard Stomme poes's Avatar
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    Email spam is not to bad now as I filter it on my server and delete it straight away and 99% of what gets through is picked up by my email program and moved straight into the junk folder. A quick scan through every now and again to make sure there is nothing in there I want and delete it all.
    Most people filter it, but since my online web-based mail system was losing too much in the spam folder, I have decided not to configure the spam folder in mutt for my other email address. This means I see it all, and since I use this email address almost entirely to make comments on web development-related articles, most of my spam is SEO-based (so when they claim they do NOT give your email address away, at least some of them must be lying).

    Deleting it is easier in mutt than web-based email anyway : )

  12. #12
    Community Advisor ULTiMATE's Avatar
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    I blame Google for its poor search results. Over the past couple of months I have noticed that I have not found what I was looking on Google for more often than usual, and it made me think whether Google really needs to improve its search quality. All offerings from Bing and Yahoo have been poor, and largely I've found DuckDuckGo, a search engine made by one person to be the only other search engine that can be relied on for simple searches.

    Spam isn't a new problem, yet the latest wave of SEO-touting spammers and compromised websites are starting to fill up the results. YouTube is almost a no-go area for me any more as any video I try to find is either a fake, has been removed or is an advert elsewhere. For less popular, but competitive searches it often takes some searching to find exactly what I need.

    In a way I really hope that someone comes up with a viable opponent to Google, because search needs to be competitive again to boost the quality for us.

  13. #13
    ✯✯✯ silver trophybronze trophy php_daemon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ULTiMATE View Post
    I blame Google for its poor search results.
    Why don't you blame your own inability to use it effectively

    I for one am satisfied with Google results and always easily find what I'm looking for. Of course it returns more "poor quality" results now than before - the web keeps growing and you will see more of those in the future. But it's a search engine, it's supposed to find everything, then it's up to you to qualify the results. I'd be very pissed if it didn't return me everything because it somehow made a decision for me of what I was looking for. That decision is for me to make, dammit.

    If you want a decision engine, use Bing ^_^ Otherwise learn to use Google.

    The only way I see how Google can pre-qualify the results is through personalization. But lo and behold they try to do it and become the bad guys again what with all the privacy issues, etc. Whine, whine, whine
    Saul

  14. #14
    Community Advisor ULTiMATE's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by php_daemon View Post
    Why don't you blame your own inability to use it effectively
    I can use it effectively, but it takes a couple of tries.

    In all seriousness, My searches are often niche (e.g. my latest search being "sitecore sc:link control") and it's these situations where Google is becoming worse. This may not seem like a bad thing, but I bet even the average person makes a number of searches on niche subjects, and they're the ones with something to lose should they find a page with popups, spam, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by php_daemon View Post
    I for one am satisfied with Google results and always easily find what I'm looking for. Of course it returns more "poor quality" results now than before - the web keeps growing and you will see more of those in the future. But it's a search engine, it's supposed to find everything, then it's up to you to qualify the results. I'd be very pissed if it didn't return me everything because it somehow made a decision for me of what I was looking for. That decision is for me to make, dammit.
    In a way, Google already makes this decision for you by pushing these pages right to the end. I do agree that Google should let you see everything, but it would be nice for Google to give us some form of gauge so we can see if the remaining pages are going to be of any help.

    Quote Originally Posted by php_daemon View Post
    If you want a decision engine, use Bing ^_^ Otherwise learn to use Google.
    The name Bing just makes me cringe, and that's coming from someone who likes the idea of a search engine named DuckDuckGo.

    I had high hopes for Bing when it acquired Powerset, but the last time I used Bing it was still awful.

    Quote Originally Posted by php_daemon View Post
    The only way I see how Google can pre-qualify the results is through personalization. But lo and behold they try to do it and become the bad guys again what with all the privacy issues, etc. Whine, whine, whine
    I think this is more to do with the medias lack of knowledge regarding personalisation algorithms. My parents will happily use personalised searches on Google or Amazon until the Daily Mail tells them that they are being tracked and watched whenever they search on their Internet connection.

    Either way, for anyone that follows search engine research and progress it seems that Google are struggling for their next move. With Norvig behind them you'd think that AI would be the next best place to push to, and it's probably where they're going, even though real-time search is a big topic at the moment (and a load of nonsense IMO). The only thing I learn when I read popular Tweets is how to hate society.

  15. #15
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    We're heading back to human control? There is a critical point for Google now. SEO seems to be a hopeless job to me, with no future.

  16. #16
    ✯✯✯ silver trophybronze trophy php_daemon's Avatar
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    It's always taken me several tries ever since I started using Google in 2002 - I can't see any significant change there, I'm used to it.

    Sure, it can always do a better job pushing down the most obvious spam, but it is doing it. The results could be much worse than they are. It's similar to email spam filters - it works but it's not perfect.

    The problem is that most results that you think are poor quality are not what can be single handedly defined as "spam". Usually they have some substance and they can be useful to some people more than others. Most of the websites manipulate the results and the manipulation will only increase, dare I say, it will reach a point where it simply equals out.

    Actually I think it really is a non-problem. Google reflects the web for what it really is, and there's no point in trying to skew the reality, even if Google itself is to blame for what the web has become.

    There's room for tools that can learn from your searching behavior and make it easier to find the results you personally find useful. Personally being the key word, so inevitably there are "privacy issues" and resistance which, I think, is the bigger problem than technology.
    Saul

  17. #17
    From Italy with love silver trophybronze trophy
    guido2004's Avatar
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    A long, long time ago... I used Yahoo, but then I discovered that Google gave much much better results. So I switched, and I never looked back.
    Google still gives me what I'm looking for, although there are moments in which certain searches give loads of nonsense pages, but that usually doesn't last long. In a couple of days the real results starting coming up on top again. It's a race between Google and 'SEO experts' I guess.

  18. #18
    SitePoint Mentor silver trophy
    Rubble's Avatar
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    I just put in a search for one of my website and on the first page I get:
    First 4 pages my website
    5 results saying how much my site is worth and giving details of how long its been up etc.
    Last result one of my pages.

    Second page:
    9 results saying how much my site is worth and giving details of how long its been up etc.
    1 useful link to my site

    Third page:
    10 results saying how much my site is worth and giving details of how long its been up etc.

    What use to anyone are the links in blue ? One site with this information might be useful to a small amount of people.

    So out of 40 results 36 are basicly junk.
    9,340 results were found does this mean that 90% of the google results are rubbish ?
    Last edited by Rubble; Jan 11, 2011 at 11:56. Reason: Edited last line

  19. #19
    ✯✯✯ silver trophybronze trophy php_daemon's Avatar
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    No, that means there are few results to your query. As I mentioned before, it's supposed to find everything.
    Saul

  20. #20
    SitePoint Mentor silver trophy
    Rubble's Avatar
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    I suppose it means then that the people that are creating usless websites have better people doing their SEO ?

  21. #21
    ✯✯✯ silver trophybronze trophy php_daemon's Avatar
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    What? Are any of those "useless" websites rank higher than your site? If not then what is the problem? You get what you're looking for right there at the top. And you get all sites that mention your site. Would you rather not know about them?

    Anyway, it shows the web as it is, like it or not. The fact is that there are hundreds if not thousands of stat sites on the web and the fact that you don't like them doesn't change that fact.

    What Google is supposed to do? Somehow find out that you don't like stat sites and skip them from the results? Probably, but it has to be a personalized search. It can't skip the results just because someone somewhere doesn't like them. If it did, there would be no websites to display because there is always at least one person who doesn't like a particular site.

    To go back to the spam issue, yes it's an issue. And it's not good when a clearly spam site is ranked higher than a good site. But from my experience those cases are rare and only temporary.

    Then again, my definition of spam may be different than yours. For example, I don't see stat sites as spam. So again, we go back to square one and you can see that it's impossible to please everyone.
    Saul

  22. #22
    SitePoint Wizard Stomme poes's Avatar
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    Nobody read the first article I linked to? http://www.marco.org/2617546197
    THAT is the kind of bull I regularly run into. 500000 pages of bull competing with a few pages that actually have what I want.

    If it was google's job to show the web as it is, then why the secret algorithms? And when google can no longer find what we WANT instead of all this GARBAGE we will leave. We'll have to leave. We have no choice, not if we actually want to find anything USEFUL instead of bull content spinner crap.

    You know, health information almost seems to be the worst, but that might just be my medical background and search habits seeing this. So. Much. High-ranking. Garbage.

    I may have to go make a donation to DuckDuckGo.

  23. #23
    ✯✯✯ silver trophybronze trophy php_daemon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stomme poes View Post
    Nobody read the first article I linked to? http://www.marco.org/2617546197
    THAT is the kind of bull I regularly run into. 500000 pages of bull competing with a few pages that actually have what I want.
    I have but I've refrained from comments. Though it looks like I've already said in this thread everything I would have said about the article.

    500000 pages of bull doesn't compete with the actual pages you want, 10 first pages of it does at most. And if you construct your query well, it's no more than 2 pages. So is it really so hard to look through 2 pages?

    Don't like it, leave it, but there's no better alternative.

    What's up with the DuckDuckGo thing? A few quick searches didn't show anything special (aside for less results than in Google). Though I do like the continuous list thingy.
    Saul

  24. #24
    SitePoint Wizard Stomme poes's Avatar
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    What's up with the DuckDuckGo thing? I few quick searches didn't show anything special
    Oh, it's not special (yet... who knows), except that, like Scroogle and Ixquick, they don't make profiles of their users. Which, financially, might be their loss. I tend to still use Scroogle because Google still (for the moment) gives me somewhat better results (ixquick's results are horrible for things outside the US) but without the tracking crap (scroogle strips it out).

    So, I originally made mention of DDG as kind of a side-comment... and then some other people here apparently use it too. Be interesting to see where they are in a year.

  25. #25
    ✯✯✯ silver trophybronze trophy php_daemon's Avatar
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    Meh, I highly doubt they will make anything worthwhile. A few searches reveal their system is based on similar algos, therefore they will face the same issues and I don't see how they would solve them any better than Google can. Count me as skeptic.

    Scroogle is just a Google's scraper (oh the irony) and ixquick is a meta search engine, so I don't see how any of them can help.

    Regarding profiling, this is exactly how Google can give better results for you, but you won't let it. And for what, privacy? Privacy on the Internet - that's an oxymoron. ^_^
    Saul


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