SitePoint Sponsor

User Tag List

Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 26 to 49 of 49
  1. #26
    Barefoot on the Moon! silver trophy Force Flow's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Northeastern USA
    Posts
    4,606
    Mentioned
    56 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Were these students serious about the degree? Or just taking it because they knew a little HTML and knew how to use facebook?
    Visit The Blog | Follow On Twitter
    301tool 1.1.5 - URL redirector & shortener (PHP/MySQL)
    Can be hosted on and utilize your own domain

  2. #27
    SitePoint Wizard
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    1,832
    Mentioned
    5 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Deaner6666 View Post
    First, of course, does with the job opportunities associated with my degree. I fear someone with an Information Technology degree may not be as competitive as someone with an Computer Science or Computer Engineering degree.
    A good idea would be to look at current job postings (and ones from 3 - 4 years ago when there were actually job openings) and see which degree they are looking for.

    And, of course, the best bit of advice anyone can give is to identify which field you want to work in and call some managers at those companies and ask what they are looking for when they have a job opening. If you explain that you are a college student who would like to talk with a manager responsible for staffing for a few minutes (not someone in Human Resources, someone who manages workers day-to-day and makes final hiring decisions), you've got a good chance of getting through to someone, or at least scheduling a short telephone conversation.

    The toughest possible situation for any student to be in is the one in which they do not know what they want to do. Employers don't seem to like that, either. They want someone who knows what they want to do and has known for some time so it will be a good fit and the new hire won't burn out or quit prematurely. If you are in the situation where you don't know what you want to do, get an education in something as broad as possible. That will provide the most opportunities, but probably not the best ones.

    One thing you definitely do not want to do is to be typecast into a job that you do not like. Employers don't like training employees any more, except for recent graduates. If you start in one highly specialized field, you are going to have a tough time getting a job in another area. For example, I got a job in accounting after college. Not in a good-paying accounting job, mediocre paying. When I tried looking for other jobs, the only interest I generated from employers was for the same types of jobs I was doing. If you don't like what you are doing and are unhappy with the pay, why would you want to do the same thing somewhere else? Being in that situation is the absolute worst. You dread going to work ever day and struggle to make ends meet.

    Bottom line: talk to hiring managers and get their input. You'll get much more useful information than on a message board.

    Also: interning is a must. It's not easy to get a job if you haven't interned somewhere during the summer. And, as always, the more prestigious the better.

  3. #28
    SitePoint Wizard
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    2,582
    Mentioned
    29 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Force Flow View Post
    Were these students serious about the degree? Or just taking it because they knew a little HTML and knew how to use facebook?
    We had a class that did weed people out as well. It wasn't designed to, but it was just tough and probably scared away more people than any. Luckily, it was the 3rd or 5th class you took in the degree, so you weren't so far in that it meant another 3 years tacked on to your education.

    @Ultimate, I don't want to debate because I speak from experience, so I know what I said is true. A degree does not necessarily mean they know the same. I know how to do software engineering and what not, but that doesn't mean everyone in my graduating class did. There is a big difference between getting through with an A+ and a C-, but it's the same piece of paper.

    Also, if I didn't misunderstand something somewhere, you're from the UK. Working closely with someone from the UK and someone from Canada, I know that all three of our education systems are substantially different, so certain things mean very different things. I think degrees and what not are one of these things.

    A (well-known/respected) certificate shows a demonstrated ability in a specific area. Anyone holding said certificate has been certified to possess a certain level of knowledge in a very specific area. If that area coincides with what an employer is looking for it means A LOT.

    I think Deaner has come to his own conclusions already (which I think are good ones), so this will probably be my last post on this subject (unless he comes back with more questions).

  4. #29
    SitePoint Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    8
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    In my case, it was!!! I do agree it should be part of CS curriculum but having the entire class average at 20% (out of 100) is just ridiculous! Just saying there is always at least one teacher who's like this...... Because of these many CS students drop out..it's sad really...
    Ouch! The CS degree is tough, and I can see why it's prestigious to have because of that toughness. I called other good schools like Florida State and University of Miami, both of their programs have much less math classes than University of South Florida. They said it's because the U.S.F. must of needed an engineering accredation, so that explains why there are so many math classes.

    Bottom line: talk to hiring managers and get their input. You'll get much more useful information than on a message board.

    Also: interning is a must. It's not easy to get a job if you haven't interned somewhere during the summer. And, as always, the more prestigious the better.
    That is a really good idea! I'm going to call a variety of businesses, like local ones, to public sector like hospitals and schools, and then corporations downtown to see what they are looking for.

    During my degree I'll be interning on a senior project, and also a group project. That will give some footing for the industry, but I'm going to push for internships during the summer time just for more experience.

    I spoke with the co-chair, and he was a very friendly and intelligent guy. He explained it something like this:

    Computer Science (when he did it) was almost all theory, and now has many practical parts to it, but still mostly theory. He explained that the IT program was started about 9 years ago because the businesses (here in FL that is) were complaining alumni were unprepared for their businesses. About four years ago the Lakeland campus (the one I'll attend) changed into a Polytechnic, and is well received because of it's cirriculum and as the only Polytechnic for Florida.

    He went on to explain that almost all of the classes there are designed for programming, and those that aren't are the electives (which could be programming from IT, or non-programming from another area like Accounting or something.)

    So that is great. I'm sure it won't be as prestigious as Computer Science, but it definitely fits into my life and still has a lot of prestige by school and curriciulum which I can use practically as well. All I have to do is think about whether to pursue the Masters (more programming, but with business management which can expand to MBA) or Cisco Academy or get experience then do either or. But that is still down the road for me, and things now are going swell!

  5. #30
    SitePoint Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    1
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I completed my Master Degree in Commerce. After completion of this degree I tried to found Accounting job but i failed. After all, I got Link building job and Now I am working as SEO.

    I know degree is play vital role in your job but some time it is difficult to manage it.

  6. #31
    Community Advisor ULTiMATE's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Bristol, United Kingdom
    Posts
    2,160
    Mentioned
    46 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Force Flow View Post
    Algorithms classes are what they are. They're not "designed" to weed out students from a degree. It's part of the regular course material.
    It was a joke?

    Although my comment was justified by the response after, and with articles from leading figures in IT like this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Deaner6666 View Post
    Ouch! The CS degree is tough, and I can see why it's prestigious to have because of that toughness. I called other good schools like Florida State and University of Miami, both of their programs have much less math classes than University of South Florida. They said it's because the U.S.F. must of needed an engineering accredation, so that explains why there are so many math classes.
    Some universities try to skip some of the logic altogether in some CS subjects. I was taught AI largely without the help of equations or logic, and even though I view this as a poor way to learn the content I still learned it.

    What you need to remember is that at university they assume that people join with differing skill levels, and the first year is essentially to get everything to a sufficient level. If you really put the work in from the go you can obtain a good mark, and professors will be far more likely to want to help if you're a tryer.

    Quote Originally Posted by Deaner6666 View Post
    That is a really good idea! I'm going to call a variety of businesses, like local ones, to public sector like hospitals and schools, and then corporations downtown to see what they are looking for.

    During my degree I'll be interning on a senior project, and also a group project. That will give some footing for the industry, but I'm going to push for internships during the summer time just for more experience.
    This is an excellent idea, and could also pave the way for you to get work during school holidays. This is actually how I landed my first internship during university.

    If you can land an internship at a decent company with a good boss that wants to help you then it's more valuable than most of your classes put together.

    Quote Originally Posted by Deaner6666 View Post
    I spoke with the co-chair, and he was a very friendly and intelligent guy. He explained it something like this:

    Computer Science (when he did it) was almost all theory, and now has many practical parts to it, but still mostly theory. He explained that the IT program was started about 9 years ago because the businesses (here in FL that is) were complaining alumni were unprepared for their businesses. About four years ago the Lakeland campus (the one I'll attend) changed into a Polytechnic, and is well received because of it's cirriculum and as the only Polytechnic for Florida.
    As I mentioned multiple times before in this thread, CS is a theoretical subject, but standards have reduced to tailor courses for people stepping into work. This is the response you'll get from everyone with experience in CS, or proven experience dealing with CS students.

    Honestly, I don't think it matters if you graduated top of your class with a Masters from MIT, you'll still be unprepared for real work. The reason is that work is entirely different to university. A vocational course may shave a month or two off of the time, but at the risk of theory.

    Regardless, if you were studying CS I would highly recommend a number of internships to show that you can work. In the same vein, I would say that if you're studying a vocational course such as IT I would highly recommend taking theoretical electives and building your knowledge of the theory behind computation.

    The reason for this is that a vocational subject like IT will teach you skills that may not be widely in use by the time you graduate. I've known a ton of people graduate being taught that SSADM and PRINCE2 are used everywhere in businesses in the UK, only to find that the businesses that will take them with an IT degree haven't even heard of it, let alone used it (note: they graduated near an industrial area where the government houses IT workers, and these skills are used in government jobs).

    My university was keen for us to use Java as our main language whenever we needed to develop data structures or work with multi-agent systems tools, but during my second internship I picked up C# and used it for my final-year project. The reason I landed so many interviews and was offered roles straight out of university was because taking a student who knew C# for a .NET job was a much lower risk than taking a student and teaching them C#/.NET.

    Then again, if you have interest in the subject one would think that reading about IT/Programming/CS would interest you anyway, as you're taking a degree in it. Your degree is an enjoyable time, but be sure to take the advantages of being a student by reading academic papers for free, studying in the library whenever possible, etc.

  7. #32
    SitePoint Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    1
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    As a teacher in the CS and IS areas at the college level in California I am often asked this same question by my students. My advise 90% of the time is CS which is a math and programming based area of study. For example, my students generally take C++, Java, HTML5, Flash, etc. and math through calculus. Plus courses in System design and analysis, and project management. IS students take applications classes like the Microsoft Office Suite and data processing classes.

    In defense of the counselors you have spoken with most of the time they try to do the best that they can. There is no way they can be an experts in all areas.

    What I suggest to my student is to contact the learning area dean on the CS department in the college you are going to attend and ask him/her your questions.

    I also strongly suggest getting the names of 4 to 5 recent graduates you can contact. They ask them a couple of key questions.

    1. What classes did you take only to find out later that you didn't need them?
    2. What classes did you not take only to find out later that you needed them?
    3. What teacher are good and which ones are bad?

    Trust me it's the student that know the real answers to these questions and a college education isn't getting any cheaper. Hope this helps you out.

  8. #33
    SitePoint Addict wardcosbyson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    253
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Force Flow View Post
    Ehh...debatable. Depends on the school's curriculum. Sometimes yes, sometimes, no. *Generally* Informations Systems is theory, Information Technology is practical.
    I agree.It entirely depends on the school's program. But yes, generally speaking, Informations System deals more on theory, software, system program while IT is more on application to almost all areas just like what is previously mentioned in this thread.

  9. #34
    SitePoint Wizard bronze trophy
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Location
    Vancouver BC Canada
    Posts
    2,029
    Mentioned
    5 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Deaner6666 View Post
    Hi everyone, and thank you for looking at this thread. I'm a current student (20 years old) at community college, soon to complete my general A.A. by Summer 2011, and then transfer to USF (a larger state college). There is a problem though. I'm trying to decide between doing Information Technology or Computer Science. Speaking with advisors has been a lackluster experience, as I'd be sent from one vague-answer advisor to another at both my community college and (soon-to-be) state college, until finally realizing that none of them knew what they (educated in counseling or business) had no idea what they were talking about. And, well, here I am now hoping that one of you guys can give me a little information on which to pick.

    ~ ~ ~
    Hey... I've looked through this thread and one thing I haven't found is what you like to do. It's the end of a long week so I might have missed it but what do you like to do with regard to science and technology?

    It's all fine and well to look at what jobs are available in various fields but it would be tragic if you spent a lot of time and money (student loans) getting yourself into a working position that you don't enjoy.

    Off Topic:


    If I were to do it over again I would go for the CS degree but that's because I'm into exploring low level computing. I have no idea where it would lead me professionally. My formal education is in business but for my day job I spend most of my time as a developer immersed in code and my time off playing with vintage 8-bit CPUs.
    Andrew Wasson | www.lunadesign.org
    Principal / Internet Development

  10. #35
    SitePoint Member t3chgodd3ss's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    1
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Deaner - just looking at your posts - you seem to be very detail oriented and that is a great quality for CS - I just want to add a caveat to your search - make sure you do not listen to advisors etc when it comes to the jobs available out there. If you have not already done so I would research Dice and other tech job sites to see what is out there for employment, also the US occupational outlook website. Advisors tend to overstate the availability of jobs or are vague about what is more lucrative.
    You are in Florida? It took me over 8 months to get a job here in FL and I have a M.Ed. in my pocket, and that was when the economy was good, back in '05.

    CS will give you the opportunity to eventually write your own ticket - you just need to figure out what really trips your trigger when it comes to computers.

    Best of luck!

  11. #36
    SitePoint Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    8
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I completed my Master Degree in Commerce. After completion of this degree I tried to found Accounting job but i failed. After all, I got Link building job and Now I am working as SEO.

    I know degree is play vital role in your job but some time it is difficult to manage it
    Gosh that had to be disappointing. Did you go for another degree, or was it all self-taught and a little luck that came into the mix?

    As I mentioned multiple times before in this thread, CS is a theoretical subject, but standards have reduced to tailor courses for people stepping into work. This is the response you'll get from everyone with experience in CS, or proven experience dealing with CS students.

    Honestly, I don't think it matters if you graduated top of your class with a Masters from MIT, you'll still be unprepared for real work. The reason is that work is entirely different to university. A vocational course may shave a month or two off of the time, but at the risk of theory.

    Regardless, if you were studying CS I would highly recommend a number of internships to show that you can work. In the same vein, I would say that if you're studying a vocational course such as IT I would highly recommend taking theoretical electives and building your knowledge of the theory behind computation.

    The reason for this is that a vocational subject like IT will teach you skills that may not be widely in use by the time you graduate. I've known a ton of people graduate being taught that SSADM and PRINCE2 are used everywhere in businesses in the UK, only to find that the businesses that will take them with an IT degree haven't even heard of it, let alone used it (note: they graduated near an industrial area where the government houses IT workers, and these skills are used in government jobs).

    My university was keen for us to use Java as our main language whenever we needed to develop data structures or work with multi-agent systems tools, but during my second internship I picked up C# and used it for my final-year project. The reason I landed so many interviews and was offered roles straight out of university was because taking a student who knew C# for a .NET job was a much lower risk than taking a student and teaching them C#/.NET.

    Then again, if you have interest in the subject one would think that reading about IT/Programming/CS would interest you anyway, as you're taking a degree in it. Your degree is an enjoyable time, but be sure to take the advantages of being a student by reading academic papers for free, studying in the library whenever possible, etc
    That's a good point. I'll definitely look at their electives for theoretical related subjects, or at least more focused. I can see why they are necessary five-ten years down the road, because as the languages change rapidly the theories behind computation may not change as fast.

    I've started looking on places like Monstor, Dice, and a few other websites for what people are looking for. Most list "Computer Science, or other related field" and " at least 2+ experience in X and Y subjects" which I'm going to look into further by calling actual business in my local area.

    I've also started learning Python 2.6/3.1 and Java, and it's been very entertaining to manipulate structures. Every night I've been studying the books hard with any free time I have to build up my skills for when I do enter my state college (be it for Computer Science or Information Technology.)

    As a teacher in the CS and IS areas at the college level in California I am often asked this same question by my students. My advise 90% of the time is CS which is a math and programming based area of study. For example, my students generally take C++, Java, HTML5, Flash, etc. and math through calculus. Plus courses in System design and analysis, and project management. IS students take applications classes like the Microsoft Office Suite and data processing classes.

    In defense of the counselors you have spoken with most of the time they try to do the best that they can. There is no way they can be an experts in all areas.

    What I suggest to my student is to contact the learning area dean on the CS department in the college you are going to attend and ask him/her your questions.

    I also strongly suggest getting the names of 4 to 5 recent graduates you can contact. They ask them a couple of key questions.

    1. What classes did you take only to find out later that you didn't need them?
    2. What classes did you not take only to find out later that you needed them?
    3. What teacher are good and which ones are bad?

    Trust me it's the student that know the real answers to these questions and a college education isn't getting any cheaper. Hope this helps you out.
    Ah I see..! The course designs definitely make sense now. IS definitely seems more business oriented, while CS is core languages and theories.

    I've spoken with the Information Technology director, and we had a nice chat about the major and the courses. However, my chats with anyone in Computer Science school have been hurried or tossed aside. It's very understandable because everyone has been busy the past month and a-half trying to wrap up classes and begin the next lot, but has not rendered any answers. I'm going to drive there this week and physically request to see someone about this and get solid answers instead.

    I'm not sure where to contact the graduates, but while there I'll ask some of the students passing those questions you listed. This will definitely give me a students perspective rather than an advisors or directors.

    I agree.It entirely depends on the school's program. But yes, generally speaking, Informations System deals more on theory, software, system program while IT is more on application to almost all areas just like what is previously mentioned in this thread.
    Ah cool. I think USF is melding their IS program into the IT to prevent overlap, and because a lot of students are being attracted to the IT program instead. Ironically.. the IT program isn't compatible with either the CS or SD (software development) programs; most likely because one has to have engineering accredation.

    Hey... I've looked through this thread and one thing I haven't found is what you like to do. It's the end of a long week so I might have missed it but what do you like to do with regard to science and technology?

    It's all fine and well to look at what jobs are available in various fields but it would be tragic if you spent a lot of time and money (student loans) getting yourself into a working position that you don't enjoy.

    Off Topic:


    If I were to do it over again I would go for the CS degree but that's because I'm into exploring low level computing. I have no idea where it would lead me professionally. My formal education is in business but for my day job I spend most of my time as a developer immersed in code and my time off playing with vintage 8-bit CPUs.
    I pretty much like everything. I've always liked computers, but brushed it aside to business (administration, accounting, etc.) related subjects because many people told me "that was the thing to do" based on my personality and performance. However, over the past year and half, I've really divulged myself into the IT field because I noticed such a good market (high demand, but low supply) of qualified professionals to satisfy "the average joe."

    First I started learning the hardware. From the hardware essentials, like the bus, bits, compatibilities, etc. to practicing the hardware by assembling and modifying towers/systems I really loved just learning everything performed. Then I started desktop and network set-ups and support, learning the servers, different kernels, and configurations of software to optimize an environment.

    Then people started contacting me for help. First friends and family, then friends of friends/family, and then I started tech. supporting online for Diablo and Starcraft II; each time resolving problems that others could not do/understand, or were too expensive to afford.

    Now I am learning things from discrete (NOC related) networks, to more hardware, and (recently, and enjoyably) the programming.

    Deaner - just looking at your posts - you seem to be very detail oriented and that is a great quality for CS - I just want to add a caveat to your search - make sure you do not listen to advisors etc when it comes to the jobs available out there. If you have not already done so I would research Dice and other tech job sites to see what is out there for employment, also the US occupational outlook website. Advisors tend to overstate the availability of jobs or are vague about what is more lucrative.
    You are in Florida? It took me over 8 months to get a job here in FL and I have a M.Ed. in my pocket, and that was when the economy was good, back in '05.

    CS will give you the opportunity to eventually write your own ticket - you just need to figure out what really trips your trigger when it comes to computers.

    Best of luck!
    Absolutely! When I heard the Career Services person just quit, and they had no data on recent graduates for the IT or CS programs (or most likely had no idea how to find it) goosebumps shred down my arm. When I spoke to the director of IT, he told me the reason they have no data on graduates:time:job ratios is because they haven't kept in contact with the graduates. I wanted to ask "well, if no one has data on whether the graduates are getting jobs, and the time in which they do after graduation, how do you know the program is working beyond the fact it's existing?" but felt he was very honest with me already. Still, better safe than sorry, I'll call him up and ask a few follow-up questions involving the jobs.

    And, wow! I'll really need to research and compare what's out there then, and definitely intern a lot, or find myself sitting on cold hands. Contemplating CS vs IT will be a big decision, so I'll compare and contrast the data until there is no more (and there is still a ton to sift through.)

    Do you think Computer Science would open more doors, and is worth the extra years to pursue it? The problem is all of math requisites, which I'm fine for studying and learning, but for a year-and-half I'll be taking only one class per semester (and working full-time in return, of course) just to enter the degree program.

  12. #37
    SitePoint Wizard
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    1,398
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Do you think Computer Science would open more doors, and is worth the extra years to pursue it?
    Yes, I have a Master in C.S. and it has opened many opportunities w/ great benefits and great $$$. No offense to "IT degree" but if I would ask my co-worker "What is a IT degree?" they'll most likely say "#@!% is IT degree?"

  13. #38
    SitePoint Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    3
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    It's totally Depends on your own interest. If you are interested in application development than you can go in Computer Science or if you have Interested in Hardware than you can go in Information Technology.As per my point of view Future of Information Technology is brighter than Computer Science. There is more Demand for DBA than Programmer.
    Last edited by paul_wilkins; Jan 20, 2011 at 22:01. Reason: removed fake signature

  14. #39
    SitePoint Addict wardcosbyson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    253
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by sg707 View Post
    Yes, I have a Master in C.S. and it has opened many opportunities w/ great benefits and great $$$. No offense to "IT degree" but if I would ask my co-worker "What is a IT degree?" they'll most likely say "#@!% is IT degree?"
    By reading everyone's comments on this thread one would really feel hesitant about getting a degree in IT. While I do not disagree with any of the comments here at all, I think there are other truths about landing a good job. Good for sg707 to have a very rewarding job but there are also a lot of CS graduates who don't enjoy their career at all. On the other hand, there are IT graduates who ended up on 6 digits and totally have no regrets about their education. Simple truth: CS is basically a good choice but IT can also lead you to a career of your dream. It all depends on you, your attitude, what do you love to do more, what are your goals and not the economy. Sorry if I'm being a little off topic here.

  15. #40
    Community Advisor ULTiMATE's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Bristol, United Kingdom
    Posts
    2,160
    Mentioned
    46 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by wardcosbyson View Post
    By reading everyone's comments on this thread one would really feel hesitant about getting a degree in IT. While I do not disagree with any of the comments here at all, I think there are other truths about landing a good job.
    The issue people have with IT degrees is that they are relatively new, and traditional employers will often overlook them as outputs of a academic generation that cared more about getting entry-level workers out than graduates trained to a certain level of knowledge.

    Quote Originally Posted by wardcosbyson View Post
    Good for sg707 to have a very rewarding job but there are also a lot of CS graduates who don't enjoy their career at all. On the other hand, there are IT graduates who ended up on 6 digits and totally have no regrets about their education.
    Absolutely! One of the bigger pitfalls with CS is that a lot of the best graduates get the CS bug from their professors and get roped into post-graduate research. I've also known terrible CS graduates who can logically model build a cuckoo hash table in their sleep, but would struggle to write a login system in C#.

    However, this is no different to any other degree. I've known IT and Forensic Computing students who couldn't work a server to save their lives, and I've met Business Information Systems graduates who would turn fetal at the sight of anything outside of Excel in the workplace.

    Quote Originally Posted by wardcosbyson View Post
    Simple truth: CS is basically a good choice but IT can also lead you to a career of your dream. It all depends on you, your attitude, what do you love to do more, what are your goals and not the economy. Sorry if I'm being a little off topic here.
    It can lead to a good career in the industry, but so can CS, or History, or any other degree. Hell, you don't even really need a degree to be a software developer in a lot of industries. I've known fantastic developers with degrees in Classics and I've known industry-known game developers land jobs at Blizzard simply because they've built Quake mods.

    You hit the nail on the head when you stated that you need to love what you do. CS is the most recognised degree in the IT industry, and a lot of self-important bosses will only hire CS graduates because of their own ill-conceived notions of their previous education, but as we've all shown a CS degree means nothing without dedication to your work.

    All a degree shows is that you've worked towards something for 3-4 years, and that you have an assumed level of knowledge that puts you above entry-level development. Employers judge you solely on what they perceive as your level of knowledge.

  16. #41
    SitePoint Wizard
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    1,398
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    CS is the most recognised degree in the IT industry
    What this really means is that HR person would know what "CS" degree is but not "IT". When they filter out the resume, they just simply look for term like "CS"/"Java". Yeah...it's lil sad that HR is the people who filters your resume then hands out the "passed" resume to the group who's hiring. By then, people w/ "IT" degree might've been already plucked out by the HR folks. Of course, in small size company you'll have greater chance to be recognize compare to big company like Google.

  17. #42
    SitePoint Wizard Wolf_22's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    1,710
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    This has been my experience at the age of 27:

    1.) The strength of the degree depends entirely upon the school you attend and the instructors teaching the courses.

    2.) Getting interviews is the easy part...

    Back after I graduated in 2007 with an IT degree, I had been employed by my university as an intern. My responsibilities for the last 3 years of the internship consisted of providing IT work for local non-profits. As you can imagine, the work was a pain at times, but mostly because of the idiot clients we had to deal with.

    In this internship, we were allowed to choose "specialties." Mine boiled down to web design and development, and as such, I was usually charged with creating websites using some sort of "painted CMS."

    It was really fun! I learned a lot about servers, web standards, PHP programming, etc. It was one of the most memorable times of my life.

    Fast-forward to graduation and it all comes apart. Based on the good words from a business instructor I had (in a systems analysis class) as well as some past co-interns that were already on-board, I found a way to get a job with a big time student loan company directly upon graduation day--I thought my life was laid out before me! I was going to finally have enough cash to get a ring for my girl, buy a house, get a new whip... Life was good.

    I lasted a year at that **** hole.

    The job itself was pure mainframe hell (i.e. - COBOL-2, JCL, disgruntled megalomaniac supervisors, manuals that weighed approximately 5 pounds, in-house training classes that were as effective as Bush was with increasing employment in the States, etc.--I'm talking NIGHTMARE) and what exactly made that employer believe I was a good fit is beyond me, especially keeping in mind that my background consisted of cross-browser compatibility and Photoshop CS:2. My old CS prof always had rhetoric about older COBOL developers going through a mass exodus of retirement. I guess the company I got the job with was panicking... Who knows?

    Anyway, ever since that PTSD experience, I've had a rather inconvenient life and it's pushed me back to school for a masters degree in something completely outside of both programming and IT (education). Don't get me wrong, I still use what I learned with the PHP and web design from my IT program, even in many of my current classes, but unfortunately, it's been my experience (as well as that of many of my classmates who majored in CS) that the school / program we all had did little to prep us for the big, bad "real world." Even with that company I mentioned set aside, many of us were still lost in many things... Truly sad.

    The biggest challenge people seem to have when going through school is determining what it is they wish to do and the horrifying irony is that many people hired to help these young adults seem to think that this is abnormal at the age of twenty-something... There's no shame in it at all! People who blab about knowing what they wish to do at the age of 18 or even 27 (ha) are naive. If you think you do know what you want to do in this age range, then hey, more power to you. But keep in mind that it becomes more convincing when you have some instructor or supervisor staring at you as you admit your fondness of .NET crap. Just saying...

    You just have to keep pushing forward and praying for the best possibility while keeping in mind that no matter what you studied in school, chances are you'll start off doing something completely unrelated to your interests (assuming you even get a job in the same field even--of which, you can then consider yourself to be very lucky).

    If you find something your passionate about, and it seems possible to get a job from it, then start working on it like crazy or else go to some school to learn more about it and go from there... Nobody in the real world gives a rat's ass if you have a CS, IT, or IS imprint stamped on your sheepskin. It's all about what you know how to do in the least amount of time because at the end of the day, that's what brings a smile to that fat jack-off's face who keeps wiping his ass with your paycheck each week.

  18. #43
    SitePoint Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    1
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Smile

    Hello,

    I'm from Florida. Wish to see the happenings here in the forum and get some information on pharmacy businesses in general and also providing the Difference b/w Computer Science and Information Tech.

    I've worked in the pharmacy industries for a number of years now so I figure I can offer some useful advice here 'n' there!
    Here is the main Differnce..........................

    At the most basic level, Computer Science is a "Hard" Science, well grounded in what is now known in the field of Mathematics as Information Theory. Computer Science (as a field) is concerned with developing new ideas around the use and design of computing systems, and with the mathematical concepts of computation and information.

    Information Technology, on the other hand, is a practical Engineering discipline, concerned with implementing solutions to practical problems using current-day technology.


    Thank You


    Regards
    Cris Bob

  19. #44
    SitePoint Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    3
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    IT are more general wherein your focus would be to grasp knowledge of all technologies.
    In CS you have to be very well in some technology to boost your career.

    Practically speaking, choosing CS you aim is to become a Programmer some day otherwise opt IT.

  20. #45
    SitePoint Wizard
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    2,582
    Mentioned
    29 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    You know, I think cvmeds actually put the write tags on them:

    CS is a "science" degree.
    IT is an "engineering" degree.

    Science looks for new uses and applications to solve problems...
    Engineers apply technology at their disposal to solve problems...

  21. #46
    Community Advisor ULTiMATE's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Bristol, United Kingdom
    Posts
    2,160
    Mentioned
    46 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by samanime View Post
    You know, I think cvmeds actually put the write tags on them:

    CS is a "science" degree.
    IT is an "engineering" degree.

    Science looks for new uses and applications to solve problems...
    Engineers apply technology at their disposal to solve problems...
    Now you've opened Pandora's Box.

    Many people argue that Computer Science is a poor name for what CS actually is. If anything, CS is a branch of logic and the only real "science" with CS is Artificial Intelligence and Bioinformatics. The Science aspect usually comes from areas where science has been borrowed to build principles of CS.

    In the same vein, people would rarely call IT, nor Software Engineering an engineering degree. For starters, there's no real engineering, and students aren't given an engineering education or background.

    Both CS and IT can exist in either a Math, CS, Science or Engineering department, based on the universities discretion. However, most would say that CS isn't a traditional science and that IT has nothing to do with Engineering. IT is first and foremost a vocational subject.

  22. #47
    SitePoint Wizard
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    2,582
    Mentioned
    29 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I meant science and engineering in very loose terms.

    Science: a branch of knowledge or study dealing with a body of facts or truths systematically arranged and showing the operation of general laws

    Engineering: The application of scientific and mathematical principles to practical ends

    I agree that they're aren't "traditional" sciences or engineering, but they do fit the most general definitions. It's a good way to sum them up in one sentence.

    Trying to describe them is like trying to describe a taco. There are a million different variations of a taco, some of which are quite different from one other. The same with both CS and IT degrees. Their curricula and content greatly differs from school to school, unlike degrees like Math which is pretty consistent school to school (as far as content goes).

  23. #48
    SitePoint Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    7
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    My 2c's:

    I studied Computing Science in the UK at one of the better Unis- it was an exceptional choice. 12 years later what I learned is still relevant because studying Comp Sci teaches you theory, principles, almost the philosophy of the subject vs. the latest and greatest technology that doesn't even exist 12 years later.

    To put that in perspective I studied C, C++, Haskell, Prolog, Assembly, etc whilst the more vocational universities studied VB. Where is VB now? It's a living fossil that you might earn $50,000 from. Yet there are hundreds of C-based and functional languages and nearly all of them use similar notation or principles.

    The second point I'll make is that you have to be clear on WHY you are going to University. Is it to learn, or to get a job? Education is there to teach you something for life- not just your subject but how to study effectively, how to master something, how to get things done. If you want a job then there are online courses you can do. Choose a solid course.

    Final tip- buy a copy of 'Getting Things Done' by David Allen and your life will be much easier! I wish someone had bought me that when I was studying.

  24. #49
    SitePoint Addict wardcosbyson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    253
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by ULTiMATE View Post
    All a degree shows is that you've worked towards something for 3-4 years, and that you have an assumed level of knowledge that puts you above entry-level development. Employers judge you solely on what they perceive as your level of knowledge.
    Well I guess I have to agree with you on that. And I also can't disagree to the fact that it is a sad thing to note that there are many employers who are so particular with "what they perceive as your level of knowledge" Anyways, thanks for your insights ULTiMATE.


Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •