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  1. #51
    SitePoint Addict z7's Avatar
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    Re: Is everybody here atheist?

    Originally posted by rapio
    reply below and tell me what religion you are or if your atheist and why.
    We don't need religion...

    ...just the Love of God

  2. #52
    SitePoint Enthusiast rapio's Avatar
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    Sorry guys my hardrive crashed and I just got it fixed but I have'nt left the thread.

    About science and God going hand in hand this is true for you science buffs remember a man by the name of Sir. Issac Newton ? He is accredited by many as being the greatest scientist who ever lived, but did you know this he wrote 3x as much on the bible as he did on science, 2/3 of his life was spent studieng the Bible, and he was a christian by his own admission.....

    another show of science and bible, scientist have traced our DNA back to two parents meaning everyone on earth came from 2 people not a bunch of apes, this is science and DNA does'nt lie, this is what the bible tought in the beggining..ahem...remember Adam and Eve?.....

    More? ok, in the book of jerimiah (yes in the bible) the author says that the world is held up by nothing, now to understand this you must understand history at that time it was believed the world was held on the shoulders of a greek god, then later on in the middle ages it was believed it was held up by a thick gas, and it was'nt untill Issac Newton that we realized it is held up by gravity which is nothing......the author of jeriamiah knew this around 2,100 years before the rest of the world how? possibly by the inspiration of God?.....

    More, in Job (pronounced joob) the author states that there is a space of emptyness to the north. Now when we look at all the stars they look the same distance from the earth at any location but scientist have descovered that there is a "cone" of emptiness for 200 light years directly over the north pole, how did job know this 3,000 years before we did? By God's inspiration?........

    More, I'll probaly understand this more as a med student than you guys will but here it goes, God gave health laws to moses (I'll pick just one here because there is dozen's of them) He told him that if a person had a deadly disease they we're to be seperated from the camp...sounds a little like our rules of quarentine, but why would they quarentine anyone after all we did'nt know about germs till the late 1800's....could it be that God knew about them?...and remember the jews we're the only ones who used these laws of all the ancient civilazations. another law God forbid the jews from eating pigs, why? well as a med student I'm going to tell you guys something that will shock you and may cause you never to want to eat pork again...a recent study done at Harvard medical school showed that 1 in every 4 peices of pork has a parisite in it (for you dead brains we'll say worm for lack of a better term) this is not found in the meat God said we can eat, God also said they could eat any fish that had fins and scales but not fish like lobster, shrimp, catfish,etc... just the ones with fins and scales why? after all we eat these today, the fish I just named are bottom feeders they clean the bottoms of the ocean and eat the dung of other fish, they are horrible for your health, so how does the authors of the bible know this when we did'nt know these things untill just a couple hundred years ago? possibly because thiers a God?

    The greatest evidence for me though which you guys certainly can't validate on your own was my mom... no not that she told me to believe and I did.... but she had cancer 5 years ago and had been through chemo and surgery and her doctor told her she had a slim chance of makeing it.....so a bunch of christians got together and prayed for her (I sat off to the side of the church thinking they we're fools= agnostic at the time) after that the next week she went back to the doc and he told her she was doing better (now this was a complete turn around from 2 weeks prior) 2 weeks later she went back, they ran some test and he told her her cancer had gone into remision this completely shocked him and he said (a medical docter now) he could give no explanation for it, 5 years later she's completely cancer free.

    to the one who said that there's to many contradictions in the bible, well remember the bible was written in hebrew and greek and that there much deeper languages than the english, untill you become fluent in hebrew and greek and read it in the language it was written then please don't accuse it of contradictions.

  3. #53
    chown linux:users\ /world Hartmann's Avatar
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    I am non-denominational Christian. I don't belong to a certain church (Catholic, Lutheran, Baptist, etc.) The reason for this is that I don't agree with certain things in each church. I attend a Baptist church but I don't believe in their philosophy of "you drink!! you're going to Hell!" That is crazy, well at least to me.

    And rapio, isn't there something in the Bible about dogs licking the wounds of themselves and others?? Everything you need to know is right there in that book.
    Last edited by Hartmann; Aug 15, 2002 at 14:14.

  4. #54
    SitePoint Wizard silver trophy Jeremy W.'s Avatar
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    Hartmann, I love Baptists. Paul TELLS Timothy to "drink a little wine before bed" to help him sleep *L*

    You're right though, every church has something that isn't quite spot on, which is why I generally ignore the differences and go to a non-denom that I can call home. We have our problems too but home is home
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  5. #55
    SitePoint Wizard
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    I am an atheist, but I celebrate Christmas and Easter (not for the religious aspects, rather for the getting together and fun). I think that religion is OK, but it's just not my thing: I like to sleep late on Sundays.

  6. #56
    SitePoint Wizard silver trophy Jeremy W.'s Avatar
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    So become a 7th day adventist (church on sats)... No, sorry, don't, you'd need to be black
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  7. #57
    chown linux:users\ /world Hartmann's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Jeremy W.
    No, sorry, don't, you'd need to be black
    HAHA!!! That is true.... We have a lot of Southern Baptist churches down here and they are pretty neat to attend!!

    Jeremy,

    I like the Baptist but it is sad that some are so critical of people... I guess most churches are like that.

  8. #58
    SitePoint Evangelist S7even's Avatar
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    Rapio, is true that most people NEED a god. Christianity is around for something more than 2000 years. This is nothing compared to the time that people lived on earth. At all times several religions and beliefs existed, because:

    1) People want to know why, and most of them prefer to accept an answer from somewhere rather than live without one.

    2) People are scared, and they want to believe that they are not alone, that death is not their end etc etc.

    Every religion has "proofs" that they are right.

    As long as people have this needs religions will exist, and religious people will be convinced that among the thousands of religions and theories that excited on this planet, their religion is the true one.

    So no matter how smart somebody is, if those needs are strong, he will be religious for sure. Atheists and agnostic people can live without answers and can accept and be content with the idea that death can be the end and that nobody out of this planet cares about us. This is the difference between atheist and religious people. Is mainly a matter of needs.

  9. #59
    SitePoint Wizard silver trophy Jeremy W.'s Avatar
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    I consider that very demeaning. Your comments insinuate that the "needs" (I didn't have any "needs" as you say) override our intellect, therefore whenever it comes to topics of science which might conflict with our beliefs we are idiots.

    In fact the exact opposite was true for me and many other individuals, including Josh McDowell. It wasn't from a point of view of need, but of intellect.

    btw, Christianity is founded on Judaism which is one of the oldest religions on the planet.

    Again though, my belief has nothing to do with needs, and I can spout of scientific evidence quite readily.
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  10. #60
    SitePoint Enthusiast rapio's Avatar
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    Everything Jeremy has said in this thread I totaly agree with, your a smart guy , any way like the above my religous beliefs was birth out of what I saw and science not need.

    About every religion haveing proofs: those religions have proofs wihen them selves every thing I said above I gave a scientific counter part for.

    I'm also non-denominational was raised baptist but there to critical, now I go to an assembly of God church.

  11. #61
    SitePoint Evangelist S7even's Avatar
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    Needs are strong things. I didn’t mean it to be insulting or anything. But the truth is that people in this world gave every answer they could imagine to explain the things that unfortunately our small human race on the little planet earth lost somewhere in universe will never be able to explain. But as I said, most people need to know an answer. And instead of accepting that such an answer can not be found they convince themselves that they already found all the answers somewhere
    My philosophy is: if something makes you happy, and this something doesn’t hurt others, then by all means continue to do/believe it.
    (the time this religion things get ugly is when they are used by some people to manipulate some idiots and hurt others in the name of god)

    Rapio, what you said are not proofs. If you read newspapers, almost every day you will see articles about some food that causes cancer or hurt us in some way. If you believe in something and you are trying to find “proofs” for it, you will. For example some Indians that don’t eat beef could use the crazy cows incidents as a proof that they are right. This kind of things do not constitute proof for any religion.
    If I sit and write several books about what will happen in the future, in some vague way (e.g. I will not say “in March 23rd 3029 an earthquake will kill 1321230 people.” But I say things like “in the year of great depression in the north, a great disaster will kill millions”) and several of this vague lines (out of many books) come “true”, will this mean I am a god?

  12. #62
    SitePoint Wizard silver trophy Jeremy W.'s Avatar
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    S7even, if it was just that kind of evidence, it wouldn't have convinced me. Thing is, not only are there things that can't be explained, which there are (even when you choose a religious path), that doesn't make religion invalid. To simply write off everyone because you feel it doesn't match your current mindset really isn't any different than people choosing religion cause it feels good
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  13. #63
    ********* Genius zweistein's Avatar
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    Originally posted by allie
    Jeremy W.

    My philosophy has always been that God gave me a perfectly good brain and expects me to use it. Some things, he expects me to do for myself. Other things, he knows I need help with.

    Golgotha,

    It makes perfectly logical sense to me that God and Science go hand in hand. Science (to me) is what God created and uses to create natural order to the universe and all that it contains.
    ¸

    Agreed. Very well written.
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  14. #64
    SitePoint Wizard silver trophy TheOriginalH's Avatar
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    scientist have traced our DNA back to two parents meaning everyone on earth came from 2 people not a bunch of apes, this is science and DNA does'nt lie, this is what the bible tought in the beggining..ahem...remember Adam and Eve?.....


    Care to provide your source sir?
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  15. #65
    SitePoint Wizard silver trophy TheOriginalH's Avatar
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    (for you dead brains we'll say worm for lack of a better term)
    Until you learn how to spell and who you're talking to, I suggest you hold the suppositions and insults.
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  16. #66
    Chikin Choker Hellbent's Avatar
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    Originally posted by TheOriginalH


    Until you learn how to spell and who you're talking to, I suggest you hold the suppositions and insults.
    TOH is right, You dont want to call TOH out unless you have your debate ducks in a row. Other wise you might end up looking foolish .

    I disagree with him on just about everything and vice versa but I respect his Intellect (even if he is always wrong . )
    Straight from the TP! And I don't mean the Trailer Park.

  17. #67
    SitePoint Enthusiast rapio's Avatar
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    First I never asked for a debateand never called THO out, I know there are people of superior intellect here but as with any community there's alot of idiots, for my spelling I let it slack when it comes to forums and never proof read.

    About the DNA post I made I don't remeber where I read it right this moment but will hunt it up and post it in the next couple of days, as well as some more 'evidence' that God exist since you want a debate, but please remember I said earlier I could'nt prove to you 100%.

    I can tell you as a med student that I had rather see a patient believe in God than not whether he exist or not (and I am fully convinced he does), my mentor a great cancer docter told me the same and he has been practicing for years,it seems to give the patient a will to live and a greater hope and they seem to be more capable to survive and fight there disease (I can't explain this so don't ask).

  18. #68
    Grumpy Mole Man Skunk's Avatar
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    I'm about as atheist as they come. No matter which way I look at religion it always seems to demand a blind leap of faith at some point - and I'm not willing to make that leap with my eyes shut.

  19. #69
    SitePoint Addict goma's Avatar
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    I was raised a Catholic and consider myself one although I'm not much of a Sunday mass type of Christian.

    I do believe in God. And if anyone doesn't believe he or she exists, that's find with me too. Everyone is entitle to his or her religion or non-religion.

    But I personally get pissed when non-beievers take it upon themselves to offend me by telling me what I believe in is non-existent. What I believe in is my own business and someone's atheistic views are his or her own. I've never spoken against atheism; again, it's a personal choice.

    The few atheists I've met seem to take great satisfaction in insulting my beliefs although I've never had anything to say about their views.
    Last edited by goma; Aug 17, 2002 at 21:16.
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  20. #70
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    I too am in the seemingly minority of atheists here, I need proof and have yet to see any that is convincing enough.

    As far as I can make out the belief in a god and in particular religion does far more harm than good, be it religous extremists or the moralising politician trying to inflict his religous values on everyone. Luckily at least in the UK religion seems to be in a slow painful death, so has less and less influence on this country.

    The fact there are so many religions with differing ideas doesn't exactly inspire my confidence that there is a god or gods. After all some religons have many gods, others just one, some say you reincarnated others say you go to heaven, even in the unlikely event that there is a god/gods then surely that means all the other religions have been based on lies.
    Last edited by neil100; Aug 17, 2002 at 12:46.

  21. #71
    Chikin Choker Hellbent's Avatar
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    Originally posted by goma
    I was raised a Catholic and consider myself one although I'm not much of a Sunday mass type of Christian.

    I do believe in God. And if anyone doesn't believe he or she exists, that's find with me too. Everyone is entitle to his or her religion or non-religion.

    But I personally get pissed when non-beievers take it upon themselves to offend me by telling me what I believe in is non-existent. What I believe in is my own business and someone's atheistic views are his or her own. I've never spoken against atheism; again, it's a personal choice.

    The few atheists I've met seem to take great satisfaction in insulting my beliefs although I've never had anything to say about their views.
    Honestly what do you expect goma? Christians/Catholic/Muslims have persecuted non-believers throughout history. I personally harbor great resentment towards most religious people. After all the years I have had "god" shoved down my throat from various aspects of society I feel the least we atheist's/non-believers can do is to give the religious bible thumpers a taste of their own medicine. Regardless of whether or not you personally spout your beliefs at others you are affiliated with an organization that does and therefore catch some of their backlash.
    Straight from the TP! And I don't mean the Trailer Park.

  22. #72
    SitePoint Wizard silver trophy Jeremy W.'s Avatar
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    And here was me thinking it was Christians, Muslims and Jews who have been persecuted throughout history

    I think any kind of segregation or elitism is bad in any form, and that includes when someone asks how my day was and I can't honestly tell them
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  23. #73
    runat="server" Golgotha's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Skunk
    I'm about as atheist as they come. No matter which way I look at religion it always seems to demand a blind leap of faith at some point - and I'm not willing to make that leap with my eyes shut.
    I am a Christian and I don't believe that I have ever taken a blind leap off anything. I have simply done my homework and have studied the evidence. After weighing the evidence I went with the choice that I thought was most probable; not certainty, but probability.

    I find that when many people say the want proof, what they are really saying is they want 100% certainty. Yet, most decisions in life, minor and major are rarely made with certainty. If I waited for 100% certainty that my girlfriend loved me before getting married, I would have never married the woman that I so deeply love now.

    Finally, I would ask where are you looking for your proof? Are you looking for it on the nightly news, are you waiting for that special on TV to show you? Are you waiting for that one class in school, a school that no longer wants ‘under God’ in its nations anthem? Are you waiting for your boss or your company to show you the proof.

    The proof is out there, but this world will not go out of its way to show it to you.

  24. #74
    SitePoint Zealot akohl's Avatar
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    I'm a Jew, as some of you already know from other threads and I believe in G-d.

    Rapio, I found your post quoted below interesting, even inspiring, particularly the part where you tell about your mother's recovery. I also believe in providence.



    Originally posted by rapio

    More? ok, in the book of jerimiah (yes in the bible) the author says that the world is held up by nothing,
    Which verse?

    God also said they could eat any fish that had fins and scales but not fish like lobster, shrimp, catfish,etc... just the ones with fins and scales why? after all we eat these today, the fish I just named are bottom feeders they clean the bottoms of the ocean and eat the dung of other fish, they are horrible for your health, so how does the authors of the bible know this when we did'nt know these things untill just a couple hundred years ago? possibly because thiers a God?
    Not all non-kosher sea creatures are dung eaters. Whales, for example, and clams, and crabs are all prohibited because they do not have scales, and/or fins.

    And even sharks and other scavenger fish...I don't think they eat fish dung!

    I'm happy you see profound intelligence in the Bible. And I think that you will find that as you continue to question your assumptions about it and learn more you will only grow in your appreciation of its profundity.


    to the one who said that there's to many contradictions in the bible, well remember the bible was written in hebrew and greek and that there much deeper languages than the english, untill you become fluent in hebrew and greek and read it in the language it was written then please don't accuse it of contradictions. [/B]
    I know, Hebrew and I agree that knowing the language is a vital tool in understanding the real meaning of a text.

    I'm curious about your comment here. In what sense is Hebrew more deep than English?

    Not that I disagree with you. I'm just curious what you meant.

  25. #75
    SitePoint Enthusiast rapio's Avatar
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    akohl, check your private messages.

    Not all non-kosher sea creatures are dung eaters. Whales, for example, and clams, and crabs are all prohibited because they do not have scales, and/or fins.
    This is true, but I don't know many people eating sharks or whales. Also crabs and clams can shatter your health. now some of you may be thinking people have ate these for century's and lived to be 70 right? this is true, but did you know your body is capable of liveing 140 years in very good health if we eat right?

    I'm curious about your comment here. In what sense is Hebrew more deep than English?
    What I mean is ancient hebrew (hebrew has evolved just like english, for example we don't use the thee's and thou's of old england any more), also though hebrew is still diffrent than english, for example in hebrew a word can have more than one meaning while this is somewhat true in english too it's not nearly as common as hebrew and greeks for example love in greek has 7 diffrent spellings and meanings (ancient greek) where in english it has one spelling and I can think of about 3 diffrent meanings.

    As I said I can't prove the bible 100% and there are things I question in fact the bible tells us to question it in 1st Thesolonians 5:21, the koran or no other Holy Book in the world tells you this only the God of the Christians and Jews (which is the same God main diffrence is christians belive Jesus is the messiah and Most (notice most not all) jews don't).

    Look at the following link:
    Can Science Prove the Bible?

    and for Scientific articles read through some of these studies:
    Science studies and the bible

    Will post some more links tommorow, I'm going to bed now


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