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  1. #26
    Mazel tov! bronze trophy kohoutek's Avatar
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    Why are you angry at this guy? He didn't give himself the raise, the employer(s) did, so you should take it to them instead. If you feel you're being bullied, talk about it with your employer. If you feel you deserve a bigger raise, talk to your employer. Shutting up about it won't get you anywhere or take away your frustration.
    Maleika E. A. | Rockatee | Twitter | Dribbble



  2. #27
    SitePoint Wizard nofel's Avatar
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    i did couple of time about the bullying, but they (my colleagues) seem to take the manager's talk for granted ad its like whining about something again n again to manager can piss him off.
    All those who wander aren't lost.

  3. #28
    Mazel tov! bronze trophy kohoutek's Avatar
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    If your employers don't care and you're obviously pretty frustrated, then the only way to resolve the issue is by leaving and finding another job (if possible).
    Maleika E. A. | Rockatee | Twitter | Dribbble



  4. #29
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    As Kohoutek said if the employer is in partnership with these bullies you better look to another Job, whether it's in the same profession or out of the profession just to get away, otherwise it could get more miserable for you.

    Or you can go beyond your supervisors head, employment standards what laws you have in the country you reside and try to fight see if you can make any progress, unless you know the clauses of where you work like the 'back of your hand' and know you may not win then don't bother otherwise, FIGHT not physically, but politically, you have a right to a safe workplace where you can do your Job in peace and not feel left out it is just one of our Human Rights.

  5. #30
    #titanic {float:none} silver trophy
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    I'm very surprised that everybody has jumped to the conclusion that nofel is being bullied. I know that (s)he feels like that... but whether that's true or not, (s)he's the only one that will really know about this.

    Quote Originally Posted by nofel View Post
    i did couple of time about the bullying, but they (my colleagues) seem to take the manager's talk for granted ad its like whining about something again n again to manager can piss him off.
    Don't get me wrong, I know that you feel like you're being treated unfairly and being bullied, and maybe that's true. But it may also be that it is simply your impression and not a reality.

    Let me explain a bit. I've seen cases where people really thought that they were being bullied and mistreated. They really thought they were. And in reality, they misunderstood the situation. They felt left out and lonely and even depressed but it was their own attitude that made their colleagues run away from them. It was their own insecurity or even the feelings they had for a colleague that they didn't like that caused the problem. But they couldn't see that their problem was themselves.

    There are a number of reasons why he may earn more than you, and while you think that there should be none and that you should earn the same, there are always some reason why this happened.

    I know that this guy was hired at the same time as you... maybe his two other colleagues were hired a few months afterwards... nevertheless, they know each other and they have a good communication among them... and they're friends... why do you expect that they should include you in that group? Why should they inform you when they leave or stay in the office? Should they be controlled by you? Why do they leave the office?

    You made it sound as if you should be informed when they stay and when they go but... why is it like that? what do you need so much control? How much of your work depends on theirs? Does it slow your own work?

    What I mean is that you really need to coldly analyze the situation and see if it is you who's creating the problem.

    I know that you believe that's impossible but I've seen more than once that I change of attitude works wonders. And if you do it, and it does help, then, you were the one causing the problem.

    Now, if you are sure that you're not the problem and these people are real bullies, the thing is that you simply have to be stronger than them (which, I'm sorry to say this, but my impression is that you don't believe yourself to be able to be stronger than them) or look for another job.

  6. #31
    King of Paralysis by Analysis bronze trophy
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    Quote Originally Posted by molona View Post
    What I mean is that you really need to coldly analyze the situation and see if it is you who's creating the problem.
    Amen sister!

    I love all the people jumping in with the "he's a bully" comments, people who have never met this guy and have no clue what is going in that office.

    These are the same people who spout conspiracy theories about why they can't find work (too good looking, not good looking enough), or how they think that references are a scam because they bust their asses and still get bad ones, or who feel that degrees are a waste of time because they don't guarantee you a job.

    People need to look at the situations in their life and figure out that there is only one constant in them, and that is them. If things are always going badly, or you never get any breaks, and it happens all the time, well guess what, it's probably not everyone else, it's probably you.

    OP, there are many reasons why the other guy may have gotten a bigger raise than you, you're in different positions, he may be smarter, he may be more liked, he may only appear to be smarter, you may have inferior social skills, he may work harder. The fact that you started at approximately the same time is irrelevant, that doesn't mean that you hold equal value to the company.

    If he is spouting off nonsense and people believe him then feel free to correct him in front of everyone, after a few times he'll stop right quick. If you just keep your head down and your mouth shut then don't blame others when he comes out ahead of you.

  7. #32
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    HaHaHaHa that first part of that is directed at me, nice shot with no impact.

    People need to look at the situations in their life and figure out that there is only one constant in them, and that is them. If things are always going badly, or you never get any breaks, and it happens all the time, well guess what, it's probably not everyone else, it's probably you.
    Untrue, this individual could just be doing their Job and would like to feel welcome in the environment they work in but instead with this other employee they are feeling left out and this other employee is persuading the other employees to follow suit, simple put bulling.
    OP, there are many reasons why the other guy may have gotten a bigger raise than you, you're in different positions, he may be smarter, he may be more liked, he may only appear to be smarter, you may have inferior social skills, he may work harder. The fact that you started at approximately the same time is irrelevant, that doesn't mean that you hold equal value to the company.
    All this merit means nothing it's how he is changing the atmosphere that is the OP concern, raising all this issues with money and position makes me just say 'Really, common' everything is not always centered around those particular things, sheesh.

  8. #33
    om nom nom nom Stomme poes's Avatar
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    I know that (s)he feels like that... but whether that's true or not, (s)he's the only one that will really know about this.
    He.

    Nofel: you've been frustrated at your job for quite a while now. I'll tell you something true: while this current workplace might really be a bad place, this kind of thing happens at MANY places. Another job means another opportunity for the same thing with different people.

    2. Refuse to let it get you down. You are a designer and graphically talented, but because the backenders only spew out nasty nested table-code, your CSS skills are lacking. Whenever I have downtime at work and I'm not actually being lazy and stupid, I've got out either a Javascript book, working through a tutorial, scanning PerlMonks or practicing swishing files around in git, or whatever. Those things are only tangentially related to my job, but I know if I want to work elsewhere at a good place, I'm competing against a bunch of other people who can also do what I do and then more (also doesn't hurt to know more at my current employer... who knew I'd have to learn Apache when I do FRONT end???!?).

    Practice more coding (with good HTML, not the garbage you get from work). Better yourself. As molona said, take the crap with a smile, or at least don't let it turn you into a grouch people don't want to be around. DVDuval's comments were spot-on.

    The co-worker you describe might be more of a jock than a bully. Jocks think they're just having fun with the guys. They don't fully realise what they're doing and don't care if you explain it. You went to management and nothing happened. So grin and bear it, increase your skills and employability, and stay as friendly/social with your other colleagues as possible. A new job might also not remove you completely from all your current co-workers, keep that in mind. So be on the best terms with as many people as you can stand.

    *edit I wasn't sure if you wanted sympathy or advice, so I gave advice. But do you have my sympathy : ) I've seen the HTML you have to work with.

  9. #34
    Twitter: @AnthonySterling silver trophy AnthonySterling's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stomme poes View Post
    He.

    Nofel: you've been frustrated at your job for quite a while now. I'll tell you something true: while this current workplace might really be a bad place, this kind of thing happens at MANY places. Another job means another opportunity for the same thing with different people.

    2. Refuse to let it get you down. You are a designer and graphically talented, but because the backenders only spew out nasty nested table-code, your CSS skills are lacking. Whenever I have downtime at work and I'm not actually being lazy and stupid, I've got out either a Javascript book, working through a tutorial, scanning PerlMonks or practicing swishing files around in git, or whatever. Those things are only tangentially related to my job, but I know if I want to work elsewhere at a good place, I'm competing against a bunch of other people who can also do what I do and then more (also doesn't hurt to know more at my current employer... who knew I'd have to learn Apache when I do FRONT end???!?).

    Practice more coding (with good HTML, not the garbage you get from work). Better yourself. As molona said, take the crap with a smile, or at least don't let it turn you into a grouch people don't want to be around. DVDuval's comments were spot-on.

    The co-worker you describe might be more of a jock than a bully. Jocks think they're just having fun with the guys. They don't fully realise what they're doing and don't care if you explain it. You went to management and nothing happened. So grin and bear it, increase your skills and employability, and stay as friendly/social with your other colleagues as possible. A new job might also not remove you completely from all your current co-workers, keep that in mind. So be on the best terms with as many people as you can stand.

    *edit I wasn't sure if you wanted sympathy or advice, so I gave advice. But do you have my sympathy : ) I've seen the HTML you have to work with.

    Love, love, love this post. The best advice I've heard in a long time, bravo.

    Off Topic:

    Right, back off to the PHP forum I go. It's scary here.
    @AnthonySterling: I'm a PHP developer, a consultant for oopnorth.com and the organiser of @phpne, a PHP User Group covering the North-East of England.

  10. #35
    SitePoint Wizard nofel's Avatar
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    Off Topic:

    lol @ anthony

    thanks poes. ur advice is always so well said as always. meanwhile i work, i have realised and shocked that people even can't write a propoer formatted html. csss is a distant thing and yet they manage to work with php and database queires (damn i never practiced my software engineering's degree skills). all along what fustrate me more is that as being a lead designer & developer i have to revamp anything that i suggest. and the work those guy to. my expression r like 'omg, r u insane when u coded this' but they don't give a damn and lately i been ignoring them too coz the more i get to wrap my head around there BS, they more i loose focus and that take the best of me to put on my job. so its now like 'keep barking, coz all u do is bark', atleast my manager know that much that without me, they can't do what i can do. and without them i can somewhat dwell myself in php (which i stay away from, as i love the visual communication more), i never stop learning and upgrading my skills. they sort of envy me as i know much of things than they do.
    funny thing is they are sort of avoding me ot jealous of me for providing any help as previously a guy was stuck on php/mysql installation on linux. i happened to overheard him and i told him soultion. and he was like "we should nominate u to solve this problem as u consider us dumb to be solving all by ourself" and it was so harsh that i talked to him over chat and he told me not to poke into anything until someone ask u. and in my view they never do, because i think in management eyes my status will be more higher than that, but that already is. all thank to God, as every person (other than my department) loves me and senior management love to have chats with me and smoke (expect my boss), so in short my colleagues (my department envy me),
    nonetheless i know i m underskilled, just thinking of knowing more JS and php/mysql with knowledge of html/css and other i would be a unstoppable man loaded with arsenal of every kind.
    All those who wander aren't lost.

  11. #36
    om nom nom nom Stomme poes's Avatar
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    as previously a guy was stuck on php/mysql installation on linux. i happened to overheard him and i told him soultion. and he was like "we should nominate u to solve this problem as u consider us dumb to be solving all by ourself"
    That's telling. There's something wrong with the relationship between you guys if he gets all super defensive when you suggest something. Do they think you think you're a know-it-all? Even if they are jerks you guys should be able to discuss solutions with each other without getting all emotional about it. Maybe tensions are very high in that room. You might need to chill a bit and see if he calms down too.

    And since he's already *****ly about it, when you hear something you know the answer to, try to think of a lighter way to say it. Or point to a web site that explains what you would say and just say "well does this guy's trick work?"

    *edit good lord it starred out prikely? like a porcupine?? Sheesh. Censorbot FAIL.

    I used to whine nag and whinge at the backender I work with because he was doing horrible things to my code and whatever didn't make a visual problem/impact was left in. This still happens, but my nagging and code-nazism started causing him to just put on his headphones and go watch some YouTube. Our relationship went to a low point. I learned I needed to stop harping on him since my responsibility of the code left once it got copied to his server, and nagging wasn't helping anyway. I found other ways to let him know where errors were and just let him deal with them however he wanted, and I relaxed how I spoke to him and joked more. It's just a retarded web site anyway, right?
    We now work pretty well together and we discuss user events and things we could try out, and we ask each other for advice on the areas where our code crosses each other (like when front-end scripting met back-end scripting). This is how we should have been working a year and a half ago. He's put in an effort to change as well, but mostly it was just me not being such a b*tch all the time.

    You are limited in what you can get your co-workers to do, and you have the greatest control over how you react to them. So that's a place to start. Think of is as performing experiments on them : ) Behavioural experiments.

  12. #37
    Sploghm bronze trophy Victorinox's Avatar
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    Running away should be the last ditch. It can become a habit.

    When people get touchy about being helped, it usually means they lack confidence in their abilities. When people exclude others from their bonding, it often indicates their own fear of exclusion. It may be that your colleagues are more uncomfortable than you.

    The best advice has been to focus and take pride in your own work and development.

    Resentment is self-administered poison. Ignore those seeking a paranoia buddy to project upon.

  13. #38
    #titanic {float:none} silver trophy
    molona's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nofel View Post
    Off Topic:

    lol @ anthony

    thanks poes. ur advice is always so well said as always. meanwhile i work, i have realised and shocked that people even can't write a propoer formatted html. csss is a distant thing and yet they manage to work with php and database queires (damn i never practiced my software engineering's degree skills). all along what fustrate me more is that as being a lead designer & developer i have to revamp anything that i suggest. and the work those guy to. my expression r like 'omg, r u insane when u coded this' but they don't give a damn and lately i been ignoring them too coz the more i get to wrap my head around there BS, they more i loose focus and that take the best of me to put on my job. so its now like 'keep barking, coz all u do is bark', atleast my manager know that much that without me, they can't do what i can do. and without them i can somewhat dwell myself in php (which i stay away from, as i love the visual communication more), i never stop learning and upgrading my skills. they sort of envy me as i know much of things than they do.
    funny thing is they are sort of avoding me ot jealous of me for providing any help as previously a guy was stuck on php/mysql installation on linux. i happened to overheard him and i told him soultion. and he was like "we should nominate u to solve this problem as u consider us dumb to be solving all by ourself" and it was so harsh that i talked to him over chat and he told me not to poke into anything until someone ask u. and in my view they never do, because i think in management eyes my status will be more higher than that, but that already is. all thank to God, as every person (other than my department) loves me and senior management love to have chats with me and smoke (expect my boss), so in short my colleagues (my department envy me),
    nonetheless i know i m underskilled, just thinking of knowing more JS and php/mysql with knowledge of html/css and other i would be a unstoppable man loaded with arsenal of every kind.
    The number of persons that can write proper code is small, so you're going to find that problem everywhere.

    Their defensive attitude does tell you something. Yes, sure, they may envy you. But it may also be that you come across as "I'm perfect and I know it all". Of course, you may not mean it but that may be the case.

    You may also come across as the controller type and nobody wants to be controlled. I did have that impression in your very first post. Furthermore, if you intervene in a conversation where you were not invited.

    It was nice for you to point them to the right direction when they have problems installing under Linux, but that's never the way the people see it.

    For the moment, it is better if you mind your own business while things relax a bit. You need to work in a better environment and if that means that you should leave them alone, so be it.

    Simply walk every morning, smile, say "Good morning" and do your job. If you're going to make yourself a coffee, then you may even ask them if they want one. But don't over do it!... you don't want to be their slave, just their colleague.

    Maybe, you can play dumb and ask them for help...


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