SitePoint Sponsor

User Tag List

Results 1 to 15 of 15
  1. #1
    Unobtrusively zen silver trophybronze trophy
    paul_wilkins's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Christchurch, New Zealand
    Posts
    14,684
    Mentioned
    99 Post(s)
    Tagged
    4 Thread(s)

    Question Is w3schools now out of date?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalon View Post
    in case you are not aware, one of many very good resources on the www for javascript is the w3schools javascript tutorials
    Those tutorials are getting out of date.

    Just looking at one example of submitting a form, the problems are:

    • inline event attributes and inline scripting are used, whereas traditional scripting events (or even advanced ones) are now the favored technique
    • Script is in the head, whereas we now put our scripts at the bottom
    • A button is used to trigger the script to submit the form, whereas a standard submit button should be used instead


    In fact, their example code can be completely replaced with HTML only code, no scripting. Their scripting example provide no benefit over standard techniques.

    Actually, their scripted form example completely fails to work at all when scripting is not available. This surprizingly means that an HTML-only solution is superior in practice to their script coded example. Not a good look.

    Most of their other code examples face similar "out of date" problems too.

    w3schools used to be a good resource, but it has long since been surpassed by the passage of time and circumstance.
    Programming Group Advisor
    Reference: JavaScript, Quirksmode Validate: HTML Validation, JSLint
    Car is to Carpet as Java is to JavaScript

  2. #2
    Non-Member Kalon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    At my computer
    Posts
    2,012
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    fair enough

    but who decides what is out of date and what isn't?

    there is no hard and fast enforcable set of rules saying how we must or must not do things.

    for example, people keep referring to w3c "standards" but afaik they are simply non-enforcable "recommendations".

    sure, there are consequences for not following them at least to a large extent but they leave a lot to choice regarding how web pages can be constructed.

    so regarding the w3schools tutorials, there of course might be the rare factual error just like there could be anywhere else, but by and large I have no problems using them as a reference when I need to check on something or refresh my memory.

    just my

  3. #3
    Unobtrusively zen silver trophybronze trophy
    paul_wilkins's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Christchurch, New Zealand
    Posts
    14,684
    Mentioned
    99 Post(s)
    Tagged
    4 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalon View Post
    fair enough

    but who decides what is out of date and what isn't?

    there is no hard and fast enforcable set of rules saying how we must or must not do things.
    There are though hard and fast rules on why certain techniques are better than others.

    Do you still use <font> tags in your code? Do you mix in style="color: green" in to your HTML code? There are fully valid reasons why things that once were done and considered right, are no longer appropriate, and are no longer correct to be taught.
    Programming Group Advisor
    Reference: JavaScript, Quirksmode Validate: HTML Validation, JSLint
    Car is to Carpet as Java is to JavaScript

  4. #4
    Non-Member Kalon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    At my computer
    Posts
    2,012
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I agree in principle and personally I code in XHTML Strict and keep my css and javascript (as much as possible at least) separate from my html.

    but <font> and other deprecated tags and inline styles will still work in many browsers and I am not going to tell anyone they must not use them. I will try to discourage them from using them but everyone is allowed to make their own choices in the end.

    I think the only way to get people to "move with the times" is to get browser manufacturers to stop supporting deprecated code and so force people to update old code and create new code using the latest "recommendations.

    But of course, that will never happen for obvious reasons.

  5. #5
    Unobtrusively zen silver trophybronze trophy
    paul_wilkins's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Christchurch, New Zealand
    Posts
    14,684
    Mentioned
    99 Post(s)
    Tagged
    4 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalon View Post
    but <font> and other deprecated tags and inline styles will still work in many browsers and I am not going to tell anyone they must not use them. I will try to discourage them from using them but everyone is allowed to make their own choices in the end.
    You're right. It's not that they MUST not be used, it's that they SHOULD not be used, because more appropriate techniques are available.

    Now the question: Do you teach someone to code their web site using font tags and embedded style attributes? Or do you teach them more appropriate techniques first, and then later on go over the less appropriate techniques for the sake of completeness.
    Programming Group Advisor
    Reference: JavaScript, Quirksmode Validate: HTML Validation, JSLint
    Car is to Carpet as Java is to JavaScript

  6. #6
    Non-Member Kalon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    At my computer
    Posts
    2,012
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by pmw57 View Post
    Now the question: Do you teach someone to code their web site using font tags and embedded style attributes? Or do you teach them more appropriate techniques first, and then later on go over the less appropriate techniques for the sake of completeness.
    If some one asks me how to do something, I would show them how I would do it based on my description on how I build web pages in my previous post.

    It is in then their chioce whether they take any notice of that or choose to do it some other way.

    I would only show them "historical" methods if they asked.

  7. #7
    Programming Since 1978 silver trophybronze trophy felgall's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Sydney, NSW, Australia
    Posts
    16,789
    Mentioned
    25 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    The only reason why the W3Schools site became a well known resource in the first place is that the two guys who created it managed to get a good domain name. There are plenty of other sites around with far greater resources than two guys working in their spare time that are therefore able to do a much better job of keeping up to date with information on their site.
    Stephen J Chapman

    javascriptexample.net, Book Reviews, follow me on Twitter
    HTML Help, CSS Help, JavaScript Help, PHP/mySQL Help, blog
    <input name="html5" type="text" required pattern="^$">

  8. #8
    Non-Member Kalon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    At my computer
    Posts
    2,012
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    can you post links to some of them please?

    as I posted in the thread this thread was split off from

    ......one of many very good resources on the www for javascript is the w3schools javascript tutorials

  9. #9
    Programming Since 1978 silver trophybronze trophy felgall's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Sydney, NSW, Australia
    Posts
    16,789
    Mentioned
    25 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    ......one of many very good resources on the www for javascript is the w3schools javascript tutorials
    of course that is if you are writing 20th Century JavaScript.

    21st century JavaScript is entirely different and is not taught at all on that site. Which its the reason for this thread talking about how antiquated the JavaScript content on that site is.
    Stephen J Chapman

    javascriptexample.net, Book Reviews, follow me on Twitter
    HTML Help, CSS Help, JavaScript Help, PHP/mySQL Help, blog
    <input name="html5" type="text" required pattern="^$">

  10. #10
    Non-Member Kalon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    At my computer
    Posts
    2,012
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I haven't looked at every single page on w3schools so I don't know if that is entirely true.

    but if you believe it is true, can you post some links to better websites please?

    atm I am happy to still use w3schools as my main reference but am happy to replace it if there is a better one out there for me.

  11. #11
    I solve practical problems. bronze trophy
    Michael Morris's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Knoxville TN
    Posts
    2,023
    Mentioned
    62 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by pmw57 View Post
    Those tutorials are getting out of date.
    Were they ever in date??

  12. #12
    Non-Member Kalon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    At my computer
    Posts
    2,012
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    oh well, looks like no-one is willing to share any links to better websites

    so I'm stuck with w3schools.

  13. #13
    Non-Member Kalon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    At my computer
    Posts
    2,012
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Have we established a definitive answer to the question posed by this thread?

    If the answer to the thread question is "yes", then, as some might know, since I often provide links to relevent pages at w3schools for further information in my posts I need a better link to use instead of w3schools for the future in this and another forum I post in.

    Any link suggestions will be much appreciated

    otherwise, I guess, it's ok for me to keep using w3schools.

  14. #14
    Unobtrusively zen silver trophybronze trophy
    paul_wilkins's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Christchurch, New Zealand
    Posts
    14,684
    Mentioned
    99 Post(s)
    Tagged
    4 Thread(s)
    I am away right now, but appropriate parts of the Mozilla Javascript Reference and Guide have been more useful for me to link to.

    When it comes to tutorials though, I am not in a position to search for them right now.
    Programming Group Advisor
    Reference: JavaScript, Quirksmode Validate: HTML Validation, JSLint
    Car is to Carpet as Java is to JavaScript

  15. #15
    Non-Member Kalon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    At my computer
    Posts
    2,012
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    ok thanks

    I've had a quick look at them. they look promising. I've bookmarked them and will have a closer look at them as time permits.


Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •