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  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by AnilG View Post
    The biggest fan boy in this article is the author. There's not a token negative to give the illusion of balance. We all know standards support is the biggest issue for any browser and we all know the track record MSIE has. Given that track record I'm impressed how optimistic some of these posters are. I'm with Cyrus, I'll continue to hope, but realistically the most I expect is for IE9 to at least start to be less prominent on my list of problems. The number of hours I've given over the years to specific support for IE hurts to think about.
    Thanks all the same, but I'm no-one's fanboy. I'm also not interested in tokenism. I've been wrestling with IE - and all the other browsers - since I started building sites for clients in the mid-90s. What I find with IE9 is I have to wrestle less. This article is not meant to be a complete review of every aspect of IE9. It's a quick grab of the some of the more interesting developments. Yes, I focused on the positive, because that's what I thought was interesting. I don't think you'd have to look too hard to find someone who wants to write only about the negative aspects.

    Just for the record, I don't think IE9 is perfect, and I don't think MS does either. The perfect browser hasn't been developed. Yet.

  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raffles View Post
    One thing IE9 is trailing with is in implementing the File API. Specifically the lack of support for <input type="file" multiple> is very disappointing. Being able to select multiple files for upload is such a basic and important feature, I'm really surprised they decided to skip it (again).
    I honestly don't expect MS to ever take a bleeding edge lead in something like this again. They got burned by doing this with IE 3 & 4, then the way they implemented the feature was changed in the spec causing them to get blamed for having it "wrong" by IE 6. So I'll be surprised if anything goes into IE before any other browser unless it isn't something that the web developer doesn't directly touch - like hardware acceleration of graphics.

  3. #28
    I meant that to happen silver trophybronze trophy Raffles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by logic earth
    HTML 5 itself is still a work in progress, Raffles. Support can only truly come when it is finish. At least Microsoft is writing test cases for HTML 5 instead of blinding adding support in a rush job. That is the last thing we need. The closer HTML 5 is actually finished and there are test cases can we then determine a baseline of support level. We actually now have an almost complete CSS 2.1 test case to test against now thinks to Microsoft while they were working on IE 8. There is more value in those test cases then the browser itself.
    That makes perfect sense to me, but IE9 is already implementing lots of HTML5 things, but not the multiple file upload facility, which is what I'm disappointed by. That said, what you say about not rushing things could not be more sensible - the last thing we want is another browser war, and I think given the pace of development nowadays, browser vendors are doing remarkably well at behaving themselves and doing things for the common good.

    Thanks for the link to the HTML5 test cases. I might submit one I'm working on.

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Morris
    I honestly don't expect MS to ever take a bleeding edge lead in something like this again. They got burned by doing this with IE 3 & 4, then the way they implemented the feature was changed in the spec causing them to get blamed for having it "wrong" by IE 6. So I'll be surprised if anything goes into IE before any other browser unless it isn't something that the web developer doesn't directly touch - like hardware acceleration of graphics.
    Good point. I suppose MS are staying as close to the edge as they can without taking any major risks, but they have to be careful not to be too cautious, especially considering how long it takes for W3C working drafts (which seem to be standardsy enough for Mozilla/Webkit) to become recommendations.

  4. #29
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    Thumbs up

    I think IE9 will deliver superior performance and a rich browsing experience with features like Site Pinning and more. Just read on this post on What's new in IE9?

  5. #30
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    Cool

    Quote Originally Posted by trojanfella View Post
    I think IE9 will deliver superior performance and a rich browsing experience with features like Site Pinning and more. Just read on this post on What's new in IE9?
    ... and yet, it's just an other Browser, where I bet that as a developer you again need special hacks, just to view the websites normally. I think all the features might be ok, but some responses to this just sound too ecstatic for me....

  6. #31
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    Michael Morris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raffles View Post
    Good point. I suppose MS are staying as close to the edge as they can without taking any major risks, but they have to be careful not to be too cautious, especially considering how long it takes for W3C working drafts (which seem to be standardsy enough for Mozilla/Webkit) to become recommendations.
    To be fair they haven't been in a position to take risks - they've been following rather than leading. But when they've led they have been a help. CSS was their proposal to the W3C if I recall correctly, and I know for certain they coined XMLHTTPRequest.

    And there are areas to innovate. One thing I would kill for that Google briefly tried with Gears is an onDrop event that fires when a file object is dragged onto a spot on the window and dropped. It would be a joy if I could monitor upload progress from javascript and have the script behave with a true progress bar. I could go on about this for awhile.

    The manufacturer convention in css ( -moz, -webkit and now -ms for IE 9 ) gives them some flexibility to experiment that wasn't present in the old days. It remains to be seen if they'll do this.

  7. #32
    padawan silver trophybronze trophy markbrown4's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Morris View Post
    And there are areas to innovate. One thing I would kill for that Google briefly tried with Gears is an onDrop event that fires when a file object is dragged onto a spot on the window and dropped. It would be a joy if I could monitor upload progress from javascript and have the script behave with a true progress bar. I could go on about this for awhile..
    Already part of HTML5.

  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by markbrown4 View Post
    Already part of HTML5.
    Until the recommendation of HTML is finalized, the correct term is "already proposed for HTML 5." There is no guarantee it will become a part of the spec. In any event, no browser has these behaviors yet, spec or not.

  9. #34
    padawan silver trophybronze trophy markbrown4's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Morris View Post
    Until the recommendation of HTML is finalized, the correct term is "already proposed for HTML 5." There is no guarantee it will become a part of the spec. In any event, no browser has these behaviors yet, spec or not.
    I do apologies to all the anal retentive out there for my incorrect statements around the nature of the HTML specification.

    Firefox and Chrome have some support for the File API - Google it "Michael Morris" if that really is your real name.

  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by markbrown4 View Post
    I do apologies to all the anal retentive out there for my incorrect statements around the nature of the HTML specification.

    Firefox and Chrome have some support for the File API - Google it "Michael Morris" if that really is your real name.
    Is that called for?

    I'll take your rude word for it that chrome and firefox have pieces of the File API in place. Getting back to my original point and the topic of the thread, Microsoft is unlikely to implement any of this until it is more finalized.

    The whole reason for the change in the spec process is that, once you start implementation some or all of the spec may turn out to be unworkable. This is why CSS had to be revised from 2.0 to 2.1. The W3C has become a bit gunshy about finalizing things because CSS 2.0 burned them so badly. By not finalizing the spec they leave room for it to be changed if it becomes necessary.

    While it's fun to play with these things before they are finalized, I'd hardly want to invest an inordinate amount of time with them in the event that they get changed.

  11. #36
    I meant that to happen silver trophybronze trophy Raffles's Avatar
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    Here is a demo of some bits of the File API in action (not by me, I might add), including all the stuff on your wishlist for uploads: http://valums.com/ajax-upload/

    Also in Gmail, you can drag and drop attachments into a message straight from your desktop, with monitoring of progress.

    Although what Mark said was uncalled for, you did confidently say something that turned out to be completely false, Michael.

  12. #37
    padawan silver trophybronze trophy markbrown4's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Morris View Post
    Is that called for?

    I'll take your rude word for it that chrome and firefox have pieces of the File API in place. Getting back to my original point and the topic of the thread, Microsoft is unlikely to implement any of this until it is more finalized.

    The whole reason for the change in the spec process is that, once you start implementation some or all of the spec may turn out to be unworkable. This is why CSS had to be revised from 2.0 to 2.1. The W3C has become a bit gunshy about finalizing things because CSS 2.0 burned them so badly. By not finalizing the spec they leave room for it to be changed if it becomes necessary.

    While it's fun to play with these things before they are finalized, I'd hardly want to invest an inordinate amount of time with them in the event that they get changed.
    No, it wasn't called for - but, I wasn't entirely serious either

    I think the time to start using the features is now.
    You were the one saying these would be awesome features to see in browsers - they are, so start using them for those that support them, just allow for fallbacks.

    It's the same for all of the HTML5 / CSS3 stuff. Use what you can,

  13. #38
    SitePoint Wizard drhowarddrfine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Morris View Post
    CSS was their proposal to the W3C if I recall correctly, and I know for certain they coined XMLHTTPRequest.
    Microsoft had nothing to do with creating CSS.

  14. #39
    SitePoint Wizard bronze trophy Black Max's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by markbrown4 View Post
    Google it "Michael Morris" if that really is your real name.
    This is what made my eyes cross. Play nice, guys.

    Quote Originally Posted by drhowarddrfine View Post
    Microsoft had nothing to do with creating CSS.
    No, but Tantek Celik was instrumental in implementing CSS for the masses in his design of IE 5 for the Mac (the Tasman engine was, at the time, the best at rendering CSS).

  15. #40
    SitePoint Wizard drhowarddrfine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by harrywellskin View Post
    I hope IE9 is way better now and got what it takes to make the internet beautiful.
    It doesn't. It fails. And it's not even out for six more months.

    btw, that "internet beautiful" site of Microsoft's had to settle with Andy Clarke and his "For A Beautiful Web" site. Don't know the terms or conditions but Andy was a bit tiffed about it.

  16. #41
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    Keeping things ticking along, on 17 November Microsoft announced the availability of Internet Explorer 9 Platform Preview 7. In conjunction with the release of Platform Preview 7, Microsoft has announced a chat with the IE9 / Chakra team on the Exploring IE blog 18 November at 9 AM PST. Could be a good place to raise queries.

  17. #42
    padawan silver trophybronze trophy markbrown4's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Black Max View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by markbrown4
    Google it "Michael Morris" if that really is your real name.
    This is what made my eyes cross. Play nice, guys.
    I heard ' if that really is your real name' said in a movie once and found it slightly funny.
    What made my eyes cross was someone making completely false statements whilst trying to correct me.

    I don't do nice, sweet cheeks.

  18. #43
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    That's all fine. I'm happy to see microsoft improving the web experience, but what is very important too is know how they gonna support the open sdtandards, namely, HTM5 and CSS3.
    Any web-design needs in some point the to be hacked to work on Internet Explorer, that's very bad.

  19. #44
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    I recently downloaded IE9 to which I'm trying to install it on a PC with no net connection, is their a work around to go about this?

  20. #45
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    Now, i am using IE9, FF4, and Chrome 11. I think they aren't big difference. They are so fast !

  21. #46
    SitePoint Enthusiast nokia3310's Avatar
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    currently using it
    has a long way to go...its slow and crashes often
    not rendering webpages well
    ?!?

  22. #47
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    IE9 browser's best features:

    New Interface
    The first thing you'll notice when launching IE9 is that the interface is completely new and takes up very little vertical space.

    Standards and Performance
    IE9 takes a flying leap toward its competitors in the under-the-hood realm, adding hardware acceleration (using your GPU to help render more intensive webapps) and lots of HTML5 support.

    Windows 7-Supported Application Shortcuts
    While Chrome became popular for its ability to create "Application Shortcuts" to webapps that you can pin to the taskbar, Microsoft has taken it a step further by partnering with certain web services like Facebook, Twitter, and Pandora to create their own taskbar-docked bookmarks, complete with jumplist support.


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