SitePoint Sponsor

User Tag List

Page 2 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast
Results 26 to 50 of 109
  1. #26
    SitePoint Addict zipperz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    329
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by sarmadys View Post
    May I ask, how do you feel about facebook communities? You know that facebook has become one of the most huge content sites (beside the people's directory) and that also has been done because of the content producing users. They are a perhaps $20 billion company now and I am not sure they give back to the users as much as SP.
    I don't feel Facebook© is a community. It is a place to put up a small page and link it with your friends, you and your friends are a community but Facebook© is just a company that provides a place for you to have a blog. Just because Godaddy hosts websites and YellowPages list contact info it doesn't make them a "community"

    A "Community" to me is a place run by the Community. A Library and City Park is community because the community makes the decisions and ultimately runs it, Wal-mart will claim to be "community" but they are a business run by owners.

    There is a difference between community and businesses. Just because a business uses the marketing term "community" doesn't really make them community.

    Quote Originally Posted by sarmadys View Post
    They also rarely ask or comply with the requests of users and as any other company, the main purpose is to have a higher net income at the end of the year (otherwise they will need to close the doors and we won't have SP anymore).

    I have operated at least 30 websites (some with several hundred thousands of users) and none of them (except the one I mentioned above) exists anymore. That's because I could not monetize and therefore maintain them.

    My time is not free and I have a living to manage. SP staff have family, kids and wives to manage. Or they should devote their lives to us internet users
    They can volunteer to moderate a community forum on their free time or they can try to be a professional forum moderator a turn "a higher net income at the end of each year" for a commercial forum.. ? idono ? it is up to them.

    Plenty of forums run on donations premium memberships and volunteer moderators some people just like to give back to the community that gave to them.that's what Community is about..

    When you start talking about commercial forum and business most people do not want to work for free so they can watch others have a higher net income at the end of the year.

  2. #27
    SitePoint Addict
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Brussels
    Posts
    377
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by sarmadys View Post
    But the company is also enriching the website (including those books, courses etc.) which makes it more precious to members.
    Hmm, yes.
    What I love to sitepoint books is that their layout and style is quite good. More easy to read than dull books like Wrox, O'Reilly, etc...
    I have a few webdesign books from Peachpit Press that are worth reading, not only for the content, but same reason: good layout as the Sitepoint books.

    What I dislike is, that SitePoint seems to write new books that are a little too fancy, marketing-like, and less interesting for me to buy for some reason. First there were the development books which came out super:
    Simply Javascript, The Art & Science Of ...
    Database Driven Websites (php)
    HTML and CSS references, anthologies, ...

    But it seems, since they've already written books about those topics, it's hard to write another book about the same topic, it would be squeezing the lemon too much. But they needed new books, for new revenues. For that reason, it seemed like SitePoint decided to write a few books as their 'design' section:

    "Create Stunning HTML Email", "Fancy Form Design", "Photography for the Web", "Sexy Web Design", ...

    For some reason I dislike them a bit, these try to keep you busy, making you creative reading a book, without a lot of 'new' material or content. While there are already lots of books about CSS that try to let you think
    about creating websites the good way.

    Quote Originally Posted by deathshadow60 View Post
    But then you couldn't pay me to poke my head into the entire "sitepoint books" or worse, "Manage your site / Host your site" sections... While nowhere near as ... mercenary, as say the entire forums at another unrelated 'point' website involving 00110101, those areas are still chock full of scammers and promotions that, well... I'd probably get myself banned if I posted what I REALLY thought about 2/3rds of the threads in there... but that's typical of once you get the fly-by-night marketing scam idiots in there and the nimrods who actually buy into the "get rich quick" nonsense.
    As in "posting a new thread to get a decent response on how to solve your problem, and finally get a reply with a link to the book section, where you can buy a book where that solution is explained" ?
    Quote Originally Posted by sg707 View Post
    With recent give away for sitepoint books, I think it's really easy to think there are more free prizes ^_^ hopefully more on the way.
    It's a good way to motivate people on this forums.
    I won a book once by a competition, but I actually have never received it. Probably something went wrong by the mail service.
    Still, a good way to keep visitors coming back.

  3. #28
    SitePoint Wizard Stomme poes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    10,280
    Mentioned
    51 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)
    As in "posting a new thread to get a decent response on how to solve your problem, and finally get a reply with a link to the book section, where you can buy a book where that solution is explained"
    No, as in content writing/blogging, social networking, and SEO sections. There's good stuff in there somewhere, but it's drowned out by crap.

    I've answered questions by pointing to books, but I didn't think to point to the book section, lawlz.

  4. #29
    #titanic {float:none} silver trophy
    molona's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    from Madrid to Heaven
    Posts
    8,250
    Mentioned
    240 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by bulevardi View Post
    I won a book once by a competition, but I actually have never received it. Probably something went wrong by the mail service.
    Off Topic:

    I assume that that was the case.
    Did you ever contacted a member of the staff so your problem could be sorted out? That would be even worse


    My only worry is that it is really tough to get feedback from people and it seems to be harder to get them involved in contests and competitions. Maybe it is because we're rushing all the time, or maybe it is because we're not doing it right.

  5. #30
    SitePoint Addict
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Brussels
    Posts
    377
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by molona View Post
    Off Topic:

    I assume that that was the case.
    Did you ever contacted a member of the staff so your problem could be sorted out? That would be even worse
    Off Topic:

    No, haven't contacted them, didn't want to bother someone about something that was free.
    As I work at a client service (replace: "client", "complaint"), I get complaints 24/7, so I'm quite tired of that. I'm not likely a guy who is contacting other 'client serices' or stuff like that very easy if it's not necessary. It's the last thing on my 'to do list'.
    If it would be the case that it's something that I paid lots of money for, ok, I would get in contact... but this was a free present.

    Quote Originally Posted by molona View Post
    My only worry is that it is really tough to get feedback from people and it seems to be harder to get them involved in contests and competitions. Maybe it is because we're rushing all the time, or maybe it is because we're not doing it right.
    That's because competitions are mostly at the time I'm on holidays

  6. #31
    SitePoint Zealot
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Posts
    150
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by zipperz View Post
    I don't feel Facebook© is a community. It is a place to put up a small page and link it with your friends, you and your friends are a community but Facebook© is just a company that provides a place for you to have a blog. Just because Godaddy hosts websites and YellowPages list contact info it doesn't make them a "community"
    I stressed multiple times that I am talking about Facebook groups and pages NOT the people directory (profiles, walls).

  7. #32
    SitePoint Mentor silver trophybronze trophy

    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Preston, Lancashire
    Posts
    1,378
    Mentioned
    72 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by HAWK View Post
    What is it about the culture here at the forums that gives the impression that we are trying to make money and what do you think I can do to turn things around so that this goes back to being "the fun place to be to discuss web design"?
    I have not really read the other replied to this, as I wanted to give you an independent uninfluenced point-of-view.

    Sitepoint uses advertising and so forth like any other site. I am also aware of their other websites too, some of which I have had the pleasure of using. So I have benefited from this.

    For me it's still a fun place, and the level of knowledge here engages me more than anything else. I enjoy posting and getting replies, replying to others and just silently reading in. I have posted in many of the forums here.

    Most sections give unbiased advise, which is always good fun, and some even make me laugh especially when arguements break out and people have contradicting point of views, which helps you see things from 2-side perceptive.

    I did however find that the forum sections which were more geared to guidance served better, and the ones which people used for getting clients had a different vibe to them.

    There is only one thing I asked, don't ever think of removing this forum. I like it here.
    follow me on ayyelo, Easy WordPress; specializing in setting up themes!

  8. #33
    SitePoint Wizard
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    blahblahblah
    Posts
    1,447
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Hi,

    I remember perfectly that a few weeks after I became a member (and ordered the PHP Anth books) I read someone making the exact same comment as the one HAWK posted in her first post.

    I don't think that "money obsession" was spf motto back then, and I don't feel it's the case today. And even if it were, well.... how would that be a problem? I get all the help I need. If people can get richer thanks to that, I don't mind.

    Off Topic:


    My only concern is always the same: the mood in the CSS/XHTML forums isn't particularly friendly, and most people posting in those forums aren't fun (pickiness, semantic purity and all the things you have to face before you can actually get an answer ). But it's been like that for a long, long time.

  9. #34
    SitePoint Addict zipperz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    329
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by sarmadys View Post
    I stressed multiple times that I am talking about Facebook groups and pages NOT the people directory (profiles, walls).
    Ok, well you lost me on the comparison. = " ?

    Facebook is a free place to put up some info and do a search of others basically a directory listing with some ads.

    A forum is a place to share info, knowledge, tips, discussions, etc When a forum becomes commercialized the owners try to make money off of the accumulated info so basically they are exploiting free labor. Yes forums have expenses like hosting etc which in Community forums are covered by the members through donations maybe even some ads if the site is coming up short and the if members agree on it =Community.

    A place like Facebook is basically a directory and they make money off of traffic and ads. very different types of sites. I don't know about these "Facebook groups" you are talking about. ? I must be out of the loop.

  10. #35
    SitePoint Wizard bronze trophy Tyssen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Brisbane, QLD
    Posts
    4,067
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by jjshell View Post
    My only concern is always the same: the mood in the CSS/XHTML forums isn't particularly friendly, and most people posting in those forums aren't fun (pickiness, semantic purity and all the things you have to face before you can actually get an answer). But it's been like that for a long, long time.
    And it's the same on just about any web dev forum that I've ever visited too.

  11. #36
    SitePoint Wizard bronze trophy Tyssen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Brisbane, QLD
    Posts
    4,067
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by BPartch View Post
    I receive no less than 5 emails letting me know about each and every SP deal.
    I thought all the emails I received from 99designs when they were up for a web design award were particularly bad; just made you seem a bit desperate imo.

  12. #37
    Non-Member bronze trophy
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Keene, NH
    Posts
    3,760
    Mentioned
    23 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Off Topic:


    Quote Originally Posted by jjshell View Post
    My only concern is always the same: the mood in the CSS/XHTML forums isn't particularly friendly, and most people posting in those forums aren't fun
    Well, it's called work, not happy happy fun time.

    Quote Originally Posted by jjshell View Post
    (pickiness, semantic purity and all the things you have to face before you can actually get an answer )
    Well, there are RULES to be followed (like the specifications, WCAG, etc), that many people including allegedly experience developers can't seem to be bothered to learn or follow... as such a common answer is going to be "Ya can't get there from here". When the site has dozens or even hundreds of validation errors, nothing remotely resembling semantic markup or coding practices, or just plain broken code the BEST advice you can give is "throw it out and start over!"

    It's a lot better than throwing silver bullet fixes at it and hoping it doesn't break when the next flavor of the week browser comes along.

    Though it also depends on your definition of friendly -- if meaningless platitudes and pointless back-slapping hugfests is your definition, then you might not fit into a workplace scenario where thing that are wrong should be labeled as wrong, and actually FIXED! Personally, in a lot of these cases the "heres a silver bullet don't even mention everything else that's wrong" attitude is much more offensive and certainly less helpful... But I view every pointless smile with suspicion and distrust, that's how you avoid a dagger between the ribs.

    Not every problem can be fixed with rainbows and unicorns.

  13. #38
    Galactic Overlord gold trophysilver trophybronze trophy
    HAWK's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    New Zealand
    Posts
    12,556
    Mentioned
    962 Post(s)
    Tagged
    14 Thread(s)
    Thanks for taking the time out to contribute to this thread guys. TBH, I'm still feeling a bit in the dark about it all. The general feel of the responses is positive, with a few negatives being based mostly on misconception. I am starting to think that perhaps that is the biggest issue.

    I'll attempt to clear up a couple of those misconceptions here.

    Quote Originally Posted by zipperz View Post
    To me Sitepiont is a commercial forum where the owners make the decisions with profit in mind. Commercial Forum vs Community Forum
    I think the first thing that I need to make clear is exactly what I mean by community and forum. Flippa and 99Designs are not part of the SitePoint community. They are separate entities owned by separate companies. All decisions to do with the SitePoint forum have absolutely nothing to do with profit. I have full autonomy to make decisions about the community and my solitary motivation is the health of the community.

    Quote Originally Posted by zipperz View Post
    To me "The Culture of The SitePoint Community" is a commercial forum and community seems more like a marketing term.
    Are you able to tell me what it is that makes you feel that way?

    Quote Originally Posted by BPartch View Post
    The banner at the top that I'm forced to hide... says above all else the first thing we want (is some money) you to see is an advertisement as opposed to any of the content below it. The ads on every page (even my profile page has an ad on it).
    Ok, I'm hearing you. Advertising is an issue for you.

    Quote Originally Posted by BPartch View Post
    After the success of the JavaScript course. I've seen a rush to get as many of these 'money makers' available as possible and I receive no less than 5 emails letting me know about each and every SP deal. (I'm sure there is a setting to not receive emails I am just too lazy to go look for it)
    I certainly take your point here, however I must explain that none of the SitePoint marketing emails have anything to do with the forums. You will be on a mailing list either because you have opted in, have previously purchased a product, or have downloaded sample chapters.[/QUOTE]

    Quote Originally Posted by BPartch View Post
    The forums themselves are just here to market the products Sitepoint has for sale (now, maybe in the beginning they were here to just be forums) and we (the forum members) are the driving force behind it and being asked to buy a $31 t-shirt on top of this , well you get the idea.
    I have to stress that this is not the case. The forums are NOT here to push products. I concede that I made some serious mistakes with the t-shirt project (which I will explain in the t-shirt thread) but those were solely mine, and had nothing to do with the company or the marketing dept. Those shirts are NOT a SitePoint product.

    Quote Originally Posted by BPartch View Post
    Having said that. Can one still come to the sitepoint forums and learn to better their web design skills? Sure thing, but the atmosphere is different (at least to me).
    Cool. That's what I'm trying to address with this thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by deathshadow60 View Post
    Another possible explanation is just the language used. We discovered this on a website I maintain where using the word 'official' on what were supposed to be fan products threw people into the exact same kneejerk we're seeing here.
    Yup, I'm seeing that now. That is definitely one of the mistakes that I'm referring to above.

    Quote Originally Posted by BPartch View Post
    Nevermind.
    Ben - I'm sorry if this feels like an attack on you. I used your quote (minus your name) because you very concisely worded an issue that has been raising it's head more and more lately.

    Quote Originally Posted by zipperz View Post
    There is a difference between community and businesses. Just because a business uses the marketing term "community" doesn't really make them community.

    They can volunteer to moderate a community forum on their free time or they can try to be a professional forum moderator a turn "a higher net income at the end of each year" for a commercial forum.. ? idono ? it is up to them.
    I need to make it clear that I am employed by SitePoint, but I am employed to run the community as a separate entity. Hands down the most challenging part of my role is to try and keep you guys - the community - separate from the moneymaking side of things. I'm asking for your help on that now.

    Quote Originally Posted by zipperz View Post
    Facebook is a free place to put up some info and do a search of others basically a directory listing with some ads.
    Let's forget about Facebook for now.

  14. #39
    Galactic Overlord gold trophysilver trophybronze trophy
    HAWK's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    New Zealand
    Posts
    12,556
    Mentioned
    962 Post(s)
    Tagged
    14 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Tyssen View Post
    I thought all the emails I received from 99designs when they were up for a web design award were particularly bad; just made you seem a bit desperate imo.
    Very fair call.

  15. #40
    padawan silver trophybronze trophy markbrown4's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Victoria, Australia
    Posts
    4,109
    Mentioned
    28 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Tyssen View Post
    I haven't been as active on SP as much in recent years as I used to. Whenever I have stopped by here recently, I nearly always find any of the topics I'd be interested in replying to already answered, so just move on.
    I feel pretty similar.
    I found Sitepoint during study and found some great people here willing to show me the ropes. I enjoyed learning and contributing because I was able to help others in the same boat.

    Now that i'm the 9-5 I am only able to wave as I pass by.
    I have always liked the community driven aspects of the forum though - contests, CSS quizes etc..

    And I find Molona / mizwizzy' podcast segment particularly entertaining

  16. #41
    SitePoint Addict zipperz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    329
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by HAWK View Post
    I think the first thing that I need to make clear is exactly what I mean by community and forum. Flippa and 99Designs are not part of the SitePoint community. They are separate entities owned by separate companies. All decisions to do with the SitePoint forum have absolutely nothing to do with profit. I have full autonomy to make decisions about the community and my solitary motivation is the health of the community.
    Quote Originally Posted by HAWK View Post
    Are you able to tell me what it is that makes you feel that way?
    A couple of years ago the market place was a part of sitepiont it got profitable, it became the basic place to sell a website they had the market cornered. So the owners took and turned it into Flippa.
    Did they ask the members ? No. Was it a Community decision ? No Was it a design and move by the owners to make more profit ?

    So the owners took a part of the forum that members built and took it away to make it a whole other business model. That’s OK it is their forum. But that’s the point it is Their Forum. Not a Community Forum.

    "All decisions to do with the SitePoint forum have absolutely nothing to do with profit."
    Ads, spam emails, more ads, taking traffic from the forum to create new sites for profit, taking buyers and sellers and general traffic from the forum to other sites for profit,

    Are these Community decisions or the owners of the forum decisions?
    In a community the community decides in a private business the owners decide (usually with profit in mind).

    I am not trying to put sitepoint down here I am just laying it out how I see it As a private owned forum geared for profit. Which is much different then a community forum.

  17. #42
    Keep Moving Forward gold trophysilver trophybronze trophy
    Shaun(OfTheDead)'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Trinidad
    Posts
    3,746
    Mentioned
    45 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Could any of this be related to Facebook changing the landscape of what people do online?


    It could be that all the new generation of zany people who write zany things are now writing them on Facebook, leaving only those who only have questions and want answers fast to kill time on Sitepoint and other web-fora. Comments?

    Could the days of web-fora generally be numbered?

    Or, if not numbered, destined to change?
    (ie, Quick questions. Quick answers. No chit-chat.)

    Trying to fill the unforgiving minute
    with sixty seconds' worth of distance run.

    Update on Sitepoint's Migration to Discourse

  18. #43
    SitePoint Zealot
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Posts
    150
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Shaun(OfTheDead) View Post
    Could any of this be related to Facebook changing the landscape of what people do online?


    It could be that all the new generation of zany people who write zany things are now writing them on Facebook, leaving only those who only have questions and want answers fast to kill time on Sitepoint and other web-fora. Comments?

    Could the days of web-fora generally be numbered?

    Or, if not numbered, destined to change?
    (ie, Quick questions. Quick answers. No chit-chat.)

    It definitly affects people's behaviour.

    In my opinion days of wasting time on small forums is toward the end (like phone line terminal BBS programs after the internet age). People prefer to waste their time in a place where their friends are gathered and they can interact with more people.

    However for professional communities, separate websites and forums are still prefered. A look at facebook Pages (aka facebook.com/pages*) and groups says that people are distracted too much on facebook to focus on serious discussions and technical/scientific groups are not that successful there (orkut was the only one which had successful technical/scientific/academic communities and that one was later ruined by spammers).

    Anyway, I love SP and a few other websites for the fact that, every bit of information you see here is about Site (i.e. site-point) development etc.

    And once again, these kind of websites, need enough income in order to be maintained. Otherwise they will not be able to compete with bigger community websites.

  19. #44
    SitePoint Mentor silver trophybronze trophy

    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Preston, Lancashire
    Posts
    1,378
    Mentioned
    72 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by markbrown4 View Post
    Now that i'm the 9-5 I am only able to wave as I pass by.
    I use to be in the same boat, but now I have my own work I can pretty much chose to post forum posts whenever, and it really helps too.

    @zipperz

    I have to agree with you here, you're quite right.
    follow me on ayyelo, Easy WordPress; specializing in setting up themes!

  20. #45
    #titanic {float:none} silver trophy
    molona's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    from Madrid to Heaven
    Posts
    8,250
    Mentioned
    240 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    And I find Molona / mizwizzy' podcast segment particularly entertaining
    we've been away for a while doing changes, but we're coming back for more I'm afraid.

    Quote Originally Posted by zipperz View Post
    A couple of years ago the market place was a part of sitepiont it got profitable, it became the basic place to sell a website they had the market cornered. So the owners took and turned it into Flippa.
    Did they ask the members ? No. Was it a Community decision ? No Was it a design and move by the owners to make more profit ?
    I'm not sure that I understand you (well, I do, but I'm not sure why you feel this way). The marketplace was removed from the forum precisly because part of it had some monetary gain and the forum should concentrate on debating, as we do now. I can't understand what's wrong with that.

    It was an idea that was accepted by the staff because it generated a lot of spam which was hard to deal with. Except Hawk now, all the staff are voluntary, we don't get paid for moderating here. Unfortunately, many people "accidentaly" moved away from the marketplace to spam the forum as they wished.

    So it was a business move but there were other reasons taken into account.
    Quote Originally Posted by zipperz View Post
    So the owners took a part of the forum that members built and took it away to make it a whole other business model. That’s OK it is their forum. But that’s the point it is Their Forum. Not a Community Forum.
    SitePoint is a business which support this forum and pay for it. As you say, they built it and they can do whatever they want to do with it... they create it, they pay for it, they develope it... why shouldn't they? Again, I can't see a problem with that. Furthermore when the majority of the forum serves its purpose, and it is free and you can discuss whatever you want (with respect, of course )
    Quote Originally Posted by zipperz View Post
    "All decisions to do with the SitePoint forum have absolutely nothing to do with profit."
    If not all, the big majority. Most of the decisions are taken by the staff and we don't look after SitePoint HQ and we don't get paid for this. That doesn't mean that we don't do mistakes. But certainly, we don't look after the coin or what our decisions mean in terms of monetary gain for SP HQ. They don't even suggest what we have to do (or not to do)

    Quote Originally Posted by zipperz View Post
    Ads, spam emails, more ads, taking traffic from the forum to create new sites for profit, taking buyers and sellers and general traffic from the forum to other sites for profit,

    Are these Community decisions or the owners of the forum decisions?
    In a community the community decides in a private business the owners decide (usually with profit in mind).

    I am not trying to put sitepoint down here I am just laying it out how I see it As a private owned forum geared for profit. Which is much different then a community forum.
    I'm guessing that you're talking about SP e-mails and spam... As far as I know, Hawk has only sent one e-mail when she became the forum administrator... That's the only e-mail sent by the forum itself.

    Any e-mail or ad you receive is because you signed up for it... either by downloading some chapters of a book or by purchasing some product and those are sent by SP HQ and nothing to do with the forum.

    So basically, the forum has only one big add at the top, and two small ones at the very bottom... from time to time, you can see a thread announcing a new book or course... and you think that's excesive? driving away traffic to other sites?

    Maybe you're considering the menu at the top where you can choose to visit the main page instead?

    I visit other forums and, to be honest, I can't see the differences... most of them have ads too.

    My point is that you think that the forum is all a huge marketing billboard for SitePoint and it isn't.

    But even if SP HQ did see it this way because they get some traffic to their sites and place two or three ads... I can't see the problem with that if you get what you've been looking for... free help, debate, learning, etc.

    Of course, this is personal but if you feel so overwhelmed by the "business side" of the forum, I do wonder what you're looking for and what you're expecting from the forum itself.

  21. #46
    SitePoint Addict zipperz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    329
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by molona View Post
    Of course, this is personal but if you feel so overwhelmed by the "business side" of the forum, I do wonder what you're looking for and what you're expecting from the forum itself.
    I don't feel "overwhelmed" and I am not against sitepionts commercial tactics. Hawk was looking for some feedback on the community aspect of sitepiont so I am just pointing out for me the commercialism and decisions based on earnings takes away from the community feel for me.

    This is just me and my viewpoint, Hawk seemed to be feeling a little puzzled why the lack of member support and lack of shirt sales. So these are the reason why I would not go out of my way (spend $30. on a tee shirt) to support a forum that I feel is taking advantage of members and free volunteers.
    Again these are just my feelings and I am not attacking the site I am just giving some feedback.

    Like you said "they built it and they can do whatever they want to do with it..." Notice how there is no WE in there ? Community is always about Us, We, As a Group, As a Community.

    As far as what I am looking for on this forum is just some info I study web design and the Internet and sitepiont has some decent info sometimes. Every month or two I come here and read a few articles and look at some threads. To be honest after a few hour I run out of decent or updated info to look at and leave for a couple of months. Over the last year or 2 I have noticed a big drop in good info and a loss of a lot of more knowledgeable posters.
    If I owned a forum I would want to know why.

    Personally I have sold a couple of site through Sitepiont and Flippa and paid some high fees for it which give me the feel I have already spend enough to pay for the info I occasionally come through and read. So I will spend most of my volunteer time and donations at opensource and community run sites.

    Just my feelings and opinions.

  22. #47
    #titanic {float:none} silver trophy
    molona's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    from Madrid to Heaven
    Posts
    8,250
    Mentioned
    240 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by zipperz View Post
    I don't feel "overwhelmed" and I am not against sitepionts commercial tactics. Hawk was looking for some feedback on the community aspect of sitepiont so I am just pointing out for me the commercialism and decisions based on earnings takes away from the community feel for me.
    I know and it is great that you take the time to do this. What I don't understand is the "why". What I'm saying is simply that I don't see that commercial side apart from a few announcements now and then or one or two articles. I don't think that they're agressive at all in my opinion, of course.
    Quote Originally Posted by zipperz View Post
    Like you said "they built it and they can do whatever they want to do with it..." Notice how there is no WE in there ? Community is always about Us, We, As a Group, As a Community.
    But staff members don't work for SP and don't get paid by them (Hawk is the exception) so you could say that it is run by the community.

    Quote Originally Posted by zipperz View Post
    Over the last year or 2 I have noticed a big drop in good info and a loss of a lot of more knowledgeable posters.
    If I owned a forum I would want to know why.
    I have the same feeling and I'm a bit worried about it too.

    Quote Originally Posted by zipperz View Post
    Personally I have sold a couple of site through Sitepiont and Flippa and paid some high fees for it which give me the feel I have already spend enough to pay for the info I occasionally come through and read. So I will spend most of my volunteer time and donations at opensource and community run sites.
    We don't have anything to do with Flippa apart from the fact that SitePoint created both.

    Quote Originally Posted by zipperz View Post
    Just my feelings and opinions.
    Fair enough

  23. #48
    SitePoint Wizard masm50's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    2,508
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I've been around here a few years now and whilst I have seen the discussion on the forums vary a bit from time to time I don't think things have really changed much - most people are around to both learn and help others which is what the forums are for.

    But, I have seen a change in Sitepoint.com (and affiliated sites/courses/books/etc) which rubs off a little on the forum. Sitepoint.com used to be full of news and articles about building websites - so PHP, MySQL, HTML, CSS, etc tutorials being the focus points - and then news on the latest tools for web development (Dreamweaver to FTP software to Apache...).
    If you look at the frontpage of Sitepoint.com right now the news items are about feed readers, fear marketing, a corporate logo, promotion for an SP course, and advert for SP live stream, news about Google Goggles and then just two articles about web development (one on Drupal, and one on PHP conditions). That frontpage is not that of a web development site but more like what you would come across on blogs like Mashable.

    Yes SP still offer a variety of great articles (in the articles section) and the reference section is useful, but these aren't on the front page.

    A similar thing has happened with the books but to a lesser extent. The first few books about building PHP/MySQL websites, CSS, business kits, etc were great and very informative. But the most recent ones about "wicked" theme creation, JQuery Ninjas, Stunning HTML emails, and cloud hosting all just seem full of buzzwords and "lite" in general.

    I'm not trying to dismiss what SP does, and I know they are a business that makes a profit - I've benefited greatly from the forums, articles and books over the years - but the focus of the site seems to have got lost over the past 18 months or so with SP moving away from web development to just web use. It has got to the stage, though that whilst I do nose around the forums every couple of days or so, I haven't visited the main site in about the last 3 or 4 months, and that change in focus will always diffuse into the forum a little bit.

  24. #49
    Non-Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    47°27′35″N 26°18′0″E
    Posts
    1,789
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    it seems to me that some heavy contributors might feel betrayed in the sense that SP is making money while they are continuously building the SP forums that makes SP able to make those money.

    as from my point of view, at the moment i'm just happy to learn and get tested here on SP.

    and ds60 makes a big point: it's a big community but does it runs it self? in the real world, we all pay money for the roads getting us to pubs to meet and chit-chat. we all pay taxes that make parks and gathering squares possible. those taxes give us the right to enrage when things are wrong.

    here there are no taxes. if you want to give, give. if you want to take, take. as for the adverts, well, it's like with women: we can all look, but touching is at your own expense

  25. #50
    SitePoint Wizard Wolf_22's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    1,711
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by HAWK View Post
    What is it about the culture here at the forums that gives the impression that we are trying to make money and what do you think I can do to turn things around so that this goes back to being "the fun place to be to discuss web design"?
    Hi HAWK! After thinking about your questions, I came up with some answers regarding the first one... I think that the comparison between years past versus present posts pertaining to things such as "free t-shirts", "free books", etc. has some ownership with this "making money" stigma. For example, currently, I see on the homepage feed a topic about "SitePoint T-shirts - What Went Wrong?" While I understand that the overall goal with a thread like this is probably not to generate income, I also understand, too, what message it implies to someone reading it--let's make money through residual mediums, like, say, t-shirts!

    Keeping in mind that I've accrued some time around here, I can honestly say that threads like this were never generated on the homepage of the forums 2 or 3 years ago. Back then, you saw nothing but threads that came from the visitor base about various issues strictly web design or development. Now, however, it seems as if there's always some sort of "social network" element intertwined with whatever posts get generated on the homepage of the forums. I think this is what causes a lot of the panic around here--there's just too much of the contemporary "social crap" now meshed into the forums. It's kind of ironic, I guess, because this is a type of community, but personally, I'm so tired of this web 2.0 social network junk that I sometimes shun it. This is just my interpretation or feeling, of course...

    Here's some ideas I came up with to improve the proverbial community (my apologies if some or all have already been mentioned):

    1.) Reduce the number of blog posts within the homepage feed of the forums. It's somewhat redundant and half the time, if the user wishes to read more about these posts, they'll have already clicked on the link on the sitepoint.com page rather than clicking on it within the forum page.

    2.) In the forums, why not try to generate more forum posts? For example, right now, we currently have a feed that generates approximately 14 or so posts from the forums varying in mixed sources (i.e. - some are "Highlighted Posts" while others may be archival feeds from past dates, etc. Instead of keeping solely with this routine, why not expand and refine this? For example, instead of just generating the said amount above, generate more and make the final product be organized into smaller, more refined blocks, etc. (similar to a checkerboard effect but not so similar...) I hope I'm making sense with this... Regardless, it would pave the way to more interaction from the visitors, expose more information as many feeds could possibly come from each or many of the forum sections (i.e. - JavaScript, PHP, ASP, etc.), and would definitely be stickier content than what we have now.

    3.) Is it possible to integrate some form of video post feature? I know the required resources for something like this would be incredibly demanding, but just imagine how personalized it would be for each registered member... I know, I know... Probably a pipe dream.

    Otherwise, I think what you're doing around here is perfectly fine.
    Keep up the great work!


Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •