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View Poll Results: Do you prefer to use a PC or a Mac for web design and development?

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  • PC every time baby!

    23 37.70%
  • PC, but they're not perfect ...

    11 18.03%
  • Indifferent

    4 6.56%
  • Mac, but they're not perfect ...

    2 3.28%
  • A P-what? Give me my Mac!

    17 27.87%
  • PC, but not windows

    4 6.56%
  • Mac, but not MacOS

    0 0%
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Thread: PC or Mac?

  1. #1
    Drupaler bronze trophy greg.harvey's Avatar
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    Question PC or Mac?

    Hi,

    I'm a web developer in an ad agency and I work on both platforms though I do harbour a clear favourite. PC's for me every time. The only reason I have a Mac on my desk at all is do that I can access the same fonts as all of the designers (the company won't buy two sets of everything) who stick religiously to their Mac with Quark Xpress to do everything! I hate it. It crashes ALL the time (I mean at least three times a day) and the Mac server seems to fall over on a reasonably regular basis as well!

    Anyway, that's my rant aside. I was actually interested in other people's comments. Please don't get too heated. I'm just interested in opinions on what is the best platform to work on ... PC or Mac?

    G

    Ps - I'm trying to set up a poll but I've never done this before so sorry if it screws up.
    Last edited by greg.harvey; Jul 26, 2002 at 05:25.

  2. #2
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    The best platform to work on is the one that you are most comfortable and most productive on.

    For me, that means Mac. For you, it means Windows. For some percentage of people out there, it means another platform entirely.

    Ain't it grand that we have choices?

  3. #3
    Drupaler bronze trophy greg.harvey's Avatar
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    ****! Good point! How ignorant of me -- forgot to put an 'others' option. Sorry people. I'll try and add it.

    G

    Ps - I have no problem with the Mac interface and I switch between the two all day -- it's the instability that I can't stand ....

  4. #4
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    Yes, Macs can be ridiculously unstable, especially due to extension conflicts. That is, Macs running pre-OSX systems.

    OSX solves that. OSX almost never crashes, period, and when a program crashes it never brings down the entire computer with it. (Well, almost never.)

    Unfortunately for graphic designers using Quark, X isn't really an option. Quark isn't available yet for X (and who knows if it will ever be), and on both my machines Quark behaves very badly running under Classic. I have to reboot into System 9 to work in Quark.

    Our graphic artist at work wants to upgrade to X and right now she's exploring InDesign as a Quark replacement to see if will be suitable.

    As far as the poll goes, if "Unix" was an option, I could have checked that, too. OSX is built on a Unix foundation. My Mac is running the Apache Web server, and I can run cgi scripts, server-side includes, etc., right on my local machine while developing and testing Web stuff. Unix on my Mac rocks!

  5. #5
    + platinum's Avatar
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    Originally posted by sonjay
    As far as the poll goes, if "Unix" was an option, I could have checked that, too. OSX is built on a Unix foundation. My Mac is running the Apache Web server, and I can run cgi scripts, server-side includes, etc., right on my local machine while developing and testing Web stuff. Unix on my Mac rocks!
    Was playing with that the other day on someones laptop here seemed cool


    I prefer my PC's though a real mans mouse has 2(or more) buttons... lol

  6. #6
    Drupaler bronze trophy greg.harvey's Avatar
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    Can't believe I didn't put more options on. D'oh! *slaps head* Hopefully a moderator will see my big message at the top and add a few more options. That said, preferring PC or Mac is a hardware choice -- not OS -- so thinking about it the poll isn't useless.

    InDesign is ok. I've got that on my Mac (cos it's a lot cheaper than Quark and lets me open the artwork). I actually seem to have the most instability problems when using Flash on a Mac. If I'm just Photoshopping or something then it's fine -- it's when I am running s/w by a number of different manufacturers at the same time that things start to get messy!

    But unfortunately this industry is quite set in it's ways and though we have OSX licenses for all of our G4s it's not installed on any of them -- and won't be unless Quark becomes X compatible. Our designers would flat refuse to use InDesign, or any other Quark compatible DTP s/w.

  7. #7
    Drupaler bronze trophy greg.harvey's Avatar
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    Originally posted by platinum
    a real mans mouse has 2(or more) buttons... lol
    That made me laugh though!

  8. #8
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    Originally posted by platinum
    a real mans mouse has 2(or more) buttons... lol
    Hah!

    A real woman's has 3 buttons and a scroll wheel, with customized button functions assigned on a per-application basis.

    Uh oh . . . are we going to skip the platform wars and go directly to the mouse wars?

  9. #9
    Drupaler bronze trophy greg.harvey's Avatar
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    Oh dear. It's all going sour already!

  10. #10
    SitePoint Wizard silver trophy TheOriginalH's Avatar
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    Poll changed
    ~The Artist Latterly Known as Crazy Hamster~
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    Currently delving into Django, GIT & CentOS

  11. #11
    Former Staff Member silver trophy Adam P.'s Avatar
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    I voted 'PC, but not perfect'. I've always used PCs and Windows, so naturally, I prefer it over a Mac. But I wouldn't hesitate to purchase a Mac in the future. I love the artistic advances that they've made and it's hard to find a PC company that matches their product design.
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  12. #12
    Drupaler bronze trophy greg.harvey's Avatar
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    Thanks a lot TheOriginalH! Much better!

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    Perl/Mason Guru Flawless_koder's Avatar
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    Linux definately

    Flawless
    ---=| If you're going to buy a pet - get a Shetland Giraffe |=---

  14. #14
    SitePoint Guru moonman's Avatar
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    Oddly enough, in my 6 years working in various computer related jobs, I have never touched a MAC. So I voted PC everytime.

  15. #15
    gingham dress, army boots... silver trophy redux's Avatar
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    indifferent, provided i have the same applications running. e.g. photoshop is photoshop, regardless of the OS running it...damn, even the shortcuts are the same (although i love the excellent context menus easily accessible with a PC mouse's right click)
    whatever gets the job done, really...
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  16. #16
    SitePoint Wizard bbolte's Avatar
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    i voted indifferent. i've used macs and pcs and they both have good and bad points. this has been done to death and it always comes out the same. it doesn't really matter what platform as long as you and the client are happy with the end results.

  17. #17
    SitePoint Wizard
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    I voted "Mac, but they're not perfect ..." because I use a mixture of both Macs and PCs. I prefer Macs and recommend my iBook to anyone looking for a new laptop (hey, does your laptop weigh only 6lbs.?), and I'm saving up for the new 17" widescreen iMac, but I do have to hop over to a PC occasionally to do certain things. I still regard OSX higher than I do XP, but that's just me.

  18. #18
    Currently Occupied; Till Sunda Andrew-J2000's Avatar
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    I can't do without a pc, but i always end up over loading them lol. I cannot stand macs, but i know they have their purpose for media and graphics etc. Although I am tempted to start using linux atm, what are the main differences between windows and linux as it goes

  19. #19
    Perl/Mason Guru Flawless_koder's Avatar
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    Okie....

    Now my entire response is based on the fact that i consider Linux to be a text based operating system.
    Gui's on linux are an abomination to the point of it.
    (if you're using it seriously - if you're using it for fun, or not using it as a server - then i'm not sure i see the point of Linux for your task)

    Servers are designed to run fast.
    They don't need a graphical interface - so why give them one. It just slows down the server exponentially as each
    session using a gui fires up.
    Windows is a client system - and an amazingly godd operating system for client work.
    The graphical interface on it, and the other "widgets" help users work quickly in a client environment. But that exact point is - to my mind - the entire failing of it as a server.

    So - i'm guessing that you're familliar with the way windows
    works ( i certainly know you are Andrew ) so - let's run
    through how linux works instead.

    It's text based - in the same way as dos.
    Your command prompt would normally be constructed to show:
    [gbjk@cars2 www.passway.org]$
    which is constructed from the $PS1 environmental variable:
    PS1="[\u@\h \W]\$ "

    that says \u (user) @ \h (host) \W (location).
    Many of the commands in linux are similar to the ones in
    windows.
    The directory structure paths are diverted, however.
    /'s are used instead of \'s. You'll soon come to appreciate
    this and hate the dos form - and i have NO idea why!

    'cd' is still the change directory command.
    so to go to your home directory you'd normally
    cd /home/gbjk OR use one of the two shortcuts:
    cd $HOME or
    cd ~gbjk

    the dos move and copy commands are shortened to
    mv
    cp

    The dir command shouldn't exist - IMO - since it's superceeded by the ls command.

    The beautiful thing about linux is the ease of finding
    your way around the commands.
    If you don't know something - you can man page it:
    man ls

    At this point i should mention - when inside screens in
    linux - 'q' will normally let you out - if not ctrl+c|d
    depending on your console.

    using apropos searches the man pages for an appropriate man page for a keyword:
    apropos directory
    would give you pretty much all you needed to know about it.

    something windows users aren't so often familiar with is
    the user system on Linux.
    You log in under your name.
    Every file in linux has permissions and ownership.

    example:
    if i did `ls -la` in a directory i might get this:
    Code:
    -rwxr-xr-x    1 gbjk     web        786486 Oct  9  2001 valkire.bmp
    -rwxr-xr-x    1 gbjk     web        263222 Aug 22  2001 valkire-uv.bmp
    -rw-r--r--    1 gbjk     web          1837 Jan  1  2002 webrent.html
    drwxr-xr-x    2 gbjk     web          4096 Jul 10 10:35 webrnt
    drwxr-xr-x    2 gbjk     web          4096 Mar 22 16:27 wrt
    -rwxr-xr-x    1 gbjk     web           495 Apr 10 16:31 x.png
    This looks strange to windows users i guess.
    the gbjk and web are the owners of the file/directory.

    The first is the actual owner, the second the web owner.
    This determines whether or not you have permission to alter the file, or directory - and in what way.
    To explain better:
    Linux has a file called /etc/group.
    In this the groups are defined, and the members of the groups. I am - for example - a member of the group web.

    The only exception to when you are subject to permission problems is when you're root. root is the linux superuser.
    It has permissions to everything - effectively.
    By changing the ownership and group to root: `chown root:root file` then you can restrict the file to effectively only the superuser (with the exception of the bit explained below).

    The first part:
    drwxrwxrwx
    Shows the permissions of the file:

    read write execute
    owner group other

    Some people might understand that explaination... if you didn't then: It means the first rwx applies to the owner,
    the second to the group, and the third to other ( anyone else )
    the leading d would indicate it's a directory ( directories should always have +x permissions for universal access )

    for instance:

    -rwxr-x--x 1 root web .... file.ext

    as gbjk - since i am a member of the group web -
    i have permission to r-x the file - read it or exectute it.
    root is the only user that may write to the file though.
    other (as in anyone else not part of the group web or the user root) may not even read the file - but merely execute it.

    Linux provides an easy reference for people to quickly refer to permissions.

    read = 4
    write = 2
    execute = 1

    The sum of these three gives a number you can use to refer to the permissions for each of the three levels
    so chmod 777 file.exe means rwx ( 4+2+4 ) for all three.
    chmod 644 file.exe means rw-r--r-- (4+2,4,4).

    The method for changing user in linux would be either
    to `exit` to the login - and the login as a different user...
    or to su to the user ` su - root ` means "assume the user root" - at which point you are propmted for the password and then become root. NOW when you type exit - you will become yourself again - since that was the session that was open previously (which is never closed - actually)

    The method for editing files normally accepted is Vim (Vi IMproved) - which takes you into a text editor.

    Vi is MANY times more powerful than you would ever expect.
    It's support of commands, regex, stored proceedures and
    many other such quick references makes it FAR more powerful
    for working quickly on code than anything in windows.
    It takes a while to get used to though... and i'm not going
    through it all here.


    Well - bit of a crashy into how linux works - so i guess
    that'd give you some of the differences between windows
    and linux.

    Flawless
    ---=| If you're going to buy a pet - get a Shetland Giraffe |=---

  20. #20
    Currently Occupied; Till Sunda Andrew-J2000's Avatar
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    ok sounds a bit unusual, but i recognise a few things from php any how. Just one thing though where can i get the text based version and install it

  21. #21
    Perl/Mason Guru Flawless_koder's Avatar
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    Well it's open source - so you can always download it.

    http://www.redhat.com/apps/download/

    I think you could probably find it there.

    Flawless
    ---=| If you're going to buy a pet - get a Shetland Giraffe |=---

  22. #22
    Currently Occupied; Till Sunda Andrew-J2000's Avatar
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    Finding Host ftp.redhat.com ...
    Connecting to 66.77.185.35:21
    Connected to 66.77.185.35:21 in 1.512, Waiting for Server Response
    530 Anonymous User Limit Reached, See http://www.redhat.com/mirrors.htm


    doh

  23. #23
    Perl/Mason Guru Flawless_koder's Avatar
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    [root@cars2 htdocs]$ ftp ftp.redhat.com
    Connected to ftp.redhat.com.
    220 Red Hat FTP server ready. All transfers are logged.
    Please login with USER and PASS.
    SRP authentication failed, trying regular login.
    Name (ftp.redhat.com:root): anonymous
    331 Please specify the password.
    Password:
    230 Login successful. Have fun.
    Remote system type is UNIX.
    Using binary mode to transfer files.
    ftp>




    Flawless
    ---=| If you're going to buy a pet - get a Shetland Giraffe |=---

  24. #24
    Currently Occupied; Till Sunda Andrew-J2000's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Flawless_koder
    The method for editing files normally accepted is Vim (Vi IMproved) - which takes you into a text editor.

    Vi is MANY times more powerful than you would ever expect.
    It's support of commands, regex, stored proceedures and
    many other such quick references makes it FAR more powerful
    for working quickly on code than anything in windows.
    It takes a while to get used to though... and i'm not going
    through it all here.


    Well - bit of a crashy into how linux works - so i guess
    that'd give you some of the differences between windows
    and linux.

    Flawless
    could you explain a little more about this, as i have never been great on regex as I just dont use them often enough to remember them. I use notepad to code normally and what differences would this make to my coding?

    Also on linux, is it \r or \n for newlines as well

  25. #25
    SitePoint Enthusiast Adryanv's Avatar
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    Although I voted for 'PC but not perfect' I do like Macs and worked with them for a long time. I have a Tibook 400MHZ powerbook that used to be my main machine and before that a G3 'Wallstreet' 250 MHZ powerbook but then I discovered Coldfusion and ASP so to the PC world I went.

    Now, I'm a happy owner of a Toshiba Satellite/XP laptop and here are my observations:

    Apple's OS 9 and 10(X) are still easier to use then XP (although this could just be me adjusting to the Windows Interface)

    I still thing Apple has one of the most beautiful OS in the planet . XP is nice but simply can't comapare

    Unlike what a lot of my friends (Die hard Mac users) say XP is a very efficent, stable and powerful operating system.

    Efficent: Try running a DVD and check how much of its system resources it eats up: mine says only 10 to 15%. Which gives me enough horse power to do work like run photoshop and Dreamweaver while watching a DVD. In contrast, on my friend's 800 MHZ Powerbook on OSX, DVD play takes about 30 to 40% of the system resources. Maybe Jagwire will change that.

    Stable: Yup just like OSX. Ever since I got my notebook I never shut it off (no kidding) I just put it on standby when I don't use it and so far no crashes or hang-ups.

    Powerful: It simply recognizes our company scanners, printers and I did not even have to tweak anything when I connected to our network for the first time to get net access. I just snapped the eithernet cable on and 'bam!' it worked. Very nice.

    Also everything from the GUI to application launching seem to be quicker than Mac OSX. Of course once Jagwire comes this could be diffrent.

    Finally, I guess for me the most significant diffrence for me between Wintel boxen/laptop and a Mac is price! The 667MHZ G4 was selling at around 2500 US while the 1.7 P4 (Equal more or less to the speed of the 800MHZ G4 my guess is) Toshiba Satellite with 10 gigs more of disk space, twice the RAM (512)etc was selling for 200US less.

    Of course you don't get the DVI, the Gigabit Eithernet and a cool/beautiful Ti (alas easy to mar) chasis but...

    Just my two cents

    Looks like I have been seduced by the dark side...
    Last edited by Adryanv; Jul 29, 2002 at 02:22.


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