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  1. #1
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    ok...

    im impressed...

    that Phong sites graphics and page layout is nothing short of beautiful!
    Can someone tell me how the heck i learn to layout a website like that?!?!?

    I mean...do i draw something like that totally out in my graphics program then cut it up into pieces and reassemble it in my HTML tables???
    Hell i cant even figure out how to make my rounded corners blend together clean heh
    Please give me any information you can...talk to me like im 10 =)p

  2. #2
    SitePoint Wizard westmich's Avatar
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    Can you give the URL of the site(s) that you are talking about?

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  3. #3
    SitePoint Wizard TWTCommish's Avatar
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    westmich,

    I think he's referring to http://www.phong.com - It's a fine site, but it sure takes awhile to load!


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    Chris Bowyer
    MyCoding.com: Under Construction!
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  4. #4
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    www.phong.com is the one I think he is on about...

    You want to be wow'ed by flash? check out www.kimble.org
    This guy is simply awesome to say the least

  5. #5
    SitePoint Zealot Isaiah's Avatar
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    The load time is well worth the wait...
    A LOT of great tutorials on his site. Check him out! www.phong.com



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    Isaiah Walter - Founder and Owner
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  6. #6
    SitePoint Wizard
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    The phong site is pretty cool, I must admit. It hasn't fully loaded yet but so far the flash is very well done and overall the design is killer.

    But as for your question: they used lotsa tables and graphics in a very complex distribution to make it look as if everything just plopped into place. It couldn't be described in one post, it's mostly just experience to make a site like that. However you should study their HTML code to see what they were thinking and what they did.

    But this brings me to a question...
    Does being young make it harder for a person to understand, or does it make them stupid?
    I've been talked to on both the Internet and in real life as if whatever the adult was telling me was going in one ear, out the other. I've held back myself from telling them that I can comprehend sentences but it still makes me very mad. I do respect them, of course, so I haven't asked anybody about why people think that being young makes you "bad," essentially. And even if you were joking (which you probably were...the smiley ) it still makes me wonder why people younger than say 13 are thought of as not understanding anything...

  7. #7
    Kat's Meow Senior ******* WebKat's Avatar
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    This is really off the subject and has been dealt with far too often in my opinion - No matter what age "Let your work" show your talent and let your "Humility" show your professionalism. Judgements made by stereotypes alone ignore so much talent...

    Just substitute the following and you will realize that this is life - and you will be there soon!

    "Post by d3v"
    <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote/font><HR>Does being Older make it harder for a person to understand, or does it make them stupid? I've been talked to on both the Internet and in real life as if whatever the Younger Techno Person, i.e. Silicon Wan'n'bes was telling me was going in one ear, out the other. I've held back myself from telling them that I can comprehend sentences but it still makes me very mad. I do respect them, of course, so I haven't asked anybody about why people think that being Older makes you "bad," essentially. And even if you were joking (which you probably were...the smiley ) it still makes me wonder why people younger than say 30'sh are thought of as not understanding anything...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

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  8. #8
    SitePoint Wizard TWTCommish's Avatar
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    Quinn,

    I think being younger is a significant advantage in this world right now. Aside from the obvious time advantage, the younger you are, the more open to learning your mind is, as a scientific certainty.

    If your parents had decided to teach you 4 other languages including English as a baby you'd learn them all easily...



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    Chris Bowyer
    MyCoding.com: Under Construction!
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  9. #9
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    Do I (17) qualify as young Webmaster’s ( www.caraudioclub.com ) club member?

    BTW, the graphics on the phong homepage are NOT hard to put together, but hard to make. It is very easy to setup tables that way. Now to make the graphics…that’s another story. But it is not impossible. The way you do it is you make a one-peace version of all your tables and cells put together, then you cut them in different peaces and past them in tables. The hardest part is to make the tables compatible with both IE and NS.

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    Ali Mousavi
    CarAudioClub.com

  10. #10
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    Well, no i wasnt joking in the comment i made. However, it isnt a comment ment to be a put down either... Its more of a phrase that i grew up with.
    When someone wasnt making much sense, people generally said "Speak to me like im 10" simply meaning "speak to me as if i have never been exposed to anything on this subject and therefor need the most basic vocab you could throw my way"
    But now it also worked both ways...if someone were patronizing me... well then i would sya. "dont speak to me like im 10."
    Yes younger kids do have a great advantage over us adults in this new cyberworld, and im more than willing to pull from ANYONES knowledge no matter what age or gender... If you know what your talking about, then only a fool would decide not to listen due to something so shallow, however theres just some things that can not and will not be learned until you grow up.

    And to reply to your question, with a question... What age could i have used that would not have offended anyone?

  11. #11
    SitePoint Wizard
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    I wasn't offended either. I know that any company would pick a 30-year-old with less skills over me because like jizbot said, they have more "collateral" (or however you spell it). I'm okay with that, but I know that soon I'll be the 30yr old with less skills than a kid, but I'll still get the job.

  12. #12
    SitePoint Wizard TWTCommish's Avatar
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    <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote/font><HR>Originally posted by jizbot:
    And to reply to your question, with a question... What age could i have used that would not have offended anyone?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Five.

    Personally I'm not offended, I rarely am. The only thing that offends me are the kind of people you mentioned...the type who don't realize that there are likely just as many intelligent teenage designers out there as there are intelligent adult designers...I'm in awe of how many teenagers I come across in various places (these forums included).

    As for things you can only learn with age...of course I agree, but most of those thing's are related to life in general and (in some cases) to business (reading people, recoignizing bad ideas or risky ideas)...I don't think it applies all that much to teenages programmers/designers.




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    Chris Bowyer
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  13. #13
    SitePoint Wizard TWTCommish's Avatar
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    Oh and for the record: if I were "in the running" for a client against a thirty-something designer with the same skills as I, and they picked him because they feel more comfortable with an adult, I wouldn't be offended at all, just a little bummed out. I would probably do the same thing if I were them!



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    Chris Bowyer
    MyCoding.com: Under Construction!
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  14. #14
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    Well i dont think the day is very far off that the 17 year old will get the job over the 30 year old... heck make it 10 year old (or 5 =)
    But what the companies look for, is longevity and skill...
    And if you have the skill, you have the skill, no matter what the age. Not only do you have the skill... but the company can feel comfortable in knowing that youll be with them for quite some time IF they make you happy...heh
    Which brings me to another point... The reasons i see that they would go for the 30 year old... It has to do with age, and the lessons learned with it. We all can remember the stupid things we had done in our days as teenagers (at least some of it heh). As we get older, the length of time between stupid acts grows and the desire to do them lessens. Also we have obligations (bills, wives, husbands) which, in its own way, makes a company feel comfortable in thinking youll be around for a long time. Only difference is, they dont have to feel so compelled to keep you happy, because DUE to the wife and kids and bills, you CANT leave your job.
    lol
    T R A P P E D

  15. #15
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    Yeah, but it does make me wonder...


    Now that there are sites out there that allow clients to place a task they need done onto a board that free lance designers then bid on... I wonder, if i were the client and i chose one of the bidders because i liked the quote he gave...

    Im not so sure i would change my mind if i then found out he was 14 or 15...and the better "resume" of websites he had, the lower id probably go on the age...

    I mean... if the price is right, then its right. and as long as the task i needed was done, i wouldnt really care who's pocket my money went into =)


  16. #16
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    <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote/font><HR>Originally posted by jizbot:
    I mean... if the price is right, then its right. and as long as the task i needed was done, i wouldnt really care who's pocket my money went into =)

    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    But if it wasn't done right, could you take 15 years old to the court or something?

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    Alan Mendelevich aka ailon
    ArticleCentral.com - The content directory for web professionals.
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  17. #17
    SitePoint Wizard
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    LOL I think their parents would go to court instead of them...

    I heard that a 15yr old kid designed AT&T's corporate intranet. They didn't know he was 15 until he showed up at their offices. They still had him do it and it looks pretty cool, or so I'm told. But of course I don't work at AT&T.

    (This was about 3-4 years ago)

  18. #18
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    Hm. Why are you guys so worried about your age? I have gotten jobs over 30 and 40 year olds when I was 17, and I didn't find it strange. Its about the image, the behavior, the way you handle yourself, your professionalism. And your employer can't ask you directly for your age, it doesnt have to be on your resume (yeah, they will more than likely see it in the paperwork, but that's when you are hired), and they can't make a decision based on age. Well...in reality, they can't admit to it, because if they do, they would be going right to court for discrimination...

    I know when I was 15-17, I temped and did part time jobs (administrative as well as web-related) and never had a problem with age. Good luck to y'all!

  19. #19
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    <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote/font><HR>Originally posted by temis:
    Well...in reality, they can't admit to it, because if they do, they would be going right to court for discrimination...
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Hehe... that's in US.... Here I've seen a job posting some months ago with following requirements: CS degree, blah blah blah, Male,... and that was from the Police department looking for network admin. And almost half of job posting include age like 20-35 in requirements. Luckily I currently fit in both categories (I'm male and 25 years old) but for lots of people here this discrimination is a real problem finding a job.

    Btw, temis, I'm stil waiting for your horror story



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    Alan Mendelevich aka ailon
    ArticleCentral.com - The content directory for web professionals.
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  20. #20
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    About the age thing. I am 12 years old and I notice a lot that people stereotype me becuase of my age. It seems that some people will ignore me when I say I'm 12 and others will be like "cool, it's neat to meet someone so young on here". I believe that your skill means more then your age....and it is true that generally older people have more skill. Does that mean that there are no young people with skill??? Of course not.

    Michael
    Dubsy Web Design
    (soon to be dubsy.com)

  21. #21
    SitePoint Wizard
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    I used to notice that a lot. Now, meeting people that know me or something I've done, they simply say "Wow this is very cool" instead of "Wow--someone your age can do this kind of stuff!?" Once you gain their respect they will start realizing that you are competent and then they will start trusting you a lot more.

    It is very true what you said that generally older people are thought to have more skill. That's right, 99% of the time. But many 10-18 year olds just got a big jump start on the Net. I started using computers when I was really little and started using the Internet (through CompuServe) around 1993. The first page that I visited was Uncle Bob's Kid's Page and I remember it quite well--http://gagme.wwa.com/%7Eboba/kids1.shtml.

    Just don't let other people discourage you!

    (ok enough of my blabbing )

  22. #22
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    http://www.designgraphik.com/ http://www.submethod.com/ http://www.vir2l.com/

    am a little surprised you all think that flash site (www.phong.com) is so good personnaly these are more to my taste!

    enjoy!
    Gar

  23. #23
    Misfit
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    I agree. Phong is a very cool site. I could list tons of sites I think are really well done, but I'll save my keyboard from the abuse. Just check out www.coolhomepages.com for a complete list...

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    · EMAIL: justin@j.cx
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  24. #24
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    Mousavi,

    Your site is almost the a direct copy of bcentral.com. bcentral has changed alitte, but I remember it looked pretty much like your site. Just with the sidebar on the left hand side with the same images. I don't think copying other people site make you qualify as a young Webmaster’s club member.

    Anyway, phong is probably made with photoshop, and if you know photoshop well. The phong interface was made mostly out of square and circles. It's really impressive though.


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