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  1. #1
    ♪♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪♪ ♪ ♪♪ Markdidj's Avatar
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    Asynchronous JavaScript. My invention here at Sitepoint?

    I think I may have invented asychronous javascript here on the sitepoint forums.

    I've been discussing this on Wikipedia's discussion page recently, as I've only just realised what asynchronous javascript was, although I've been doing it for years.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Ajax_(programming) (Might need to copy and paste link, including brackets)

    I created a changeScript function, which I use alot, which does this type of thing. I first published it in 2003, which beats Jesse James Garret's publications by 2 years. Here's a link to the page, written on a forum I was a member of, and still am.
    http://www.sitepoint.com/forums/showthread.php?t=135179
    Here's a few more from Sitepoint....

    Discussing loading Javascript after page load http://www.sitepoint.com/forums/showthread.php?p=882531 13th August 2003

    Discussing Caching of js imported after page load http://www.sitepoint.com/forums/showthread.php?t=128223 13th September 2003

    The first even predates the application for the patent by a month. "US Patent #7,523,401 being issued to Greg Aldridge of Kokomo, IN."

    Does anyone know if there's any reference to this method before mine?

    Many Thanks
    LiveScript: Putting the "Live" Back into JavaScript
    if live output_as_javascript else output_as_html end if

  2. #2
    Follow: @AlexDawsonUK silver trophybronze trophy AlexDawson's Avatar
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    I think it's worth saying that one of the primary features of Ajax is the XML component - which is considered both part of the mechanism and thereby attached directly to the term itself. While your example may indeed pre-date both the idea that Garret and the patent application provide, your implementation method does arguably fall outside of what is considered Ajax thereby doesn't qualify under those terms. As an example, before Microsoft produced the main method of using Ajax today, people used to implement a similar style of feature using iFrames (to load content) and then JavaScript to make use of the data without reloading the primary page (the iFrame itself was hidden from view). Not detracting from what you've done but Ajax is a pretty specific buzzword for a selection of used technologies.

  3. #3
    ♪♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪♪ ♪ ♪♪ Markdidj's Avatar
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    Thanks Alex. I understand it's not Ajax, (asycnhronous javascript and XML) but it is asynchronous javascript. Wikipedia point this to Ajax.

    http://www.sitepoint.com/forums/showthread.php?t=684645 - My post near the bottom of this page shows how it works, and it is a much simpler method than Ajax. It runs the whole of my site, including the zooming of the maps, the cms, the statistics page including sorting. I haven't come across the need of XML yet as I don't read feeds or (x)HTML from other sites. The only benefits Ajax has over it is that it reads XML. Ajax is more difficult for the layman though.

    I have even set up few sites with this function, which allows me to import data or html from their site to mine, or visa versa, and by reading the top.location I can allow or disallow the function.

    It's quite a powerful script.
    LiveScript: Putting the "Live" Back into JavaScript
    if live output_as_javascript else output_as_html end if

  4. #4
    ♪♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪♪ ♪ ♪♪ Markdidj's Avatar
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    I'm thinking of going Open Source with it, as it's getting alot of work as it powers my cms and everything else. I've also translated it into PHP. Do you think the public would want it? How would I go about making it officially open source?
    LiveScript: Putting the "Live" Back into JavaScript
    if live output_as_javascript else output_as_html end if

  5. #5
    Follow: @AlexDawsonUK silver trophybronze trophy AlexDawson's Avatar
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    Well the thing is, yours doesn't belong within Ajax as it doesn't meet the definition so the question would be over having an independent page for Asynchronous JavaScript (as a unique technique) rather than it redirecting. The problem as I see it is there's little presidence to your technique or mainstream awareness thereby it's pretty niche and lacking of independent research or implementation to quantify a Wiki page of it's own. If you did gain mainstream support for it then the argument to have Async JavaScript as an independent page relating to your method (possibly in a category including Ajax) would be better justified.

    As for making it open source, all you need to-do is put the code and documentation on the web (somewhere like Google code would be ideal where it could get exposure), attach an open source license (there's a number which exist) and place your code under that, then go out and promote the method to get it noticed.

  6. #6
    ♪♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪♪ ♪ ♪♪ Markdidj's Avatar
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    Would it be better to take this route if I wanted to earn money from it? A friend that's more of a hardware expert keeps telling me I should. I'm quite a good programmer, but prefer artistic coding (interactive guitars, drums, mazes) to business coding and I'm rubbish designer. I'm sat here skint as usual though, working part-time self employed with occassional work. The only guaranteed income is £51 per week working tax credit. I'm not too worried about this, as I enjoy developing most of all, but I'd rather get away from the benefits system.

    I've started to take my friends advice, and looking to go open in the hope it may bring in a wage.
    LiveScript: Putting the "Live" Back into JavaScript
    if live output_as_javascript else output_as_html end if

  7. #7
    Follow: @AlexDawsonUK silver trophybronze trophy AlexDawson's Avatar
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    If you want to make the method successful (people will actually use it), don't charge for the code. It's a pretty simple statement of fact that between Ajax (which is free and loads of libraries exist) or a commercial alternative with few real world uses, no-one will go near your option. Under normal circumstances you can't complete with free, but going up against something like Ajax which has code, entire libraries, constant exposure, books, tutorials, videos and more dedicated too it with a commercial alternative... it's not going to work (and there's nothing stopping people adapting yours and giving it away).

    PS: Very few people buy code as code, they buy solutions (like forum software) or custom work (made on-demand), you'll have a very hard time justifying the price.

  8. #8
    ♪♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪♪ ♪ ♪♪ Markdidj's Avatar
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    I've been using the word livescript, do you think I can continue? I liked it as I use the variable live or $live to differentiate between outputing as HTML or JavaScript, and I also use live=1 for manual clicks or live=2 for setTimeouts. The live=2 has a different expire date depending on the length of the timeout, so makes the page completely live. It also caches the javascript until the expire date, so nobody could use a setTimeout(changeScript("page.asp?live=2"),1) to try to bring down my site as the javascript file gets recovered from the cache and works more like a function giving the same results until expiration.

    That's the reason I like livescript, and bought the domain a few years ago, but should I call it async javascript? Livescript was not trademarked at the time.
    LiveScript: Putting the "Live" Back into JavaScript
    if live output_as_javascript else output_as_html end if

  9. #9
    ♪♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪♪ ♪ ♪♪ Markdidj's Avatar
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    I've created an Open Source project and called it livescript under the Artistic License/GPL Do you think this is the correct license?

    As it's not server specific or just javascript I've added it to the web section. Is this a good idea or should I go with a particular language? Does anyone else use Google Project Hosting who may be able to give a few pointers?

    Many thanks Alex (although I'm sure one would do the job )

    Also, in the wiki pages is it OK to post the links that I posted in the first section above, the ones that point to my initial posts in 2003?
    LiveScript: Putting the "Live" Back into JavaScript
    if live output_as_javascript else output_as_html end if

  10. #10
    Follow: @AlexDawsonUK silver trophybronze trophy AlexDawson's Avatar
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    GPL is usually a good choice, there should be overviews somewhere for all the open source licenses (if you wanted to know what it covers). I agree with the web section, it seems to fit the nature of the project (in terms of it not being language specific). As for Wikipedia, you can't use forum posts (that I'm aware of) as links or citable evidence for something's credibility, it's denoted in the Wikipedia posting and citation rules.

  11. #11
    ♪♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪♪ ♪ ♪♪ Markdidj's Avatar
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    That includes the wiki pages in Google Code?
    LiveScript: Putting the "Live" Back into JavaScript
    if live output_as_javascript else output_as_html end if

  12. #12
    Follow: @AlexDawsonUK silver trophybronze trophy AlexDawson's Avatar
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    Oh sorry, got confused there, no it won't include that. You can list whatever you like in Google Code's Wiki.

  13. #13
    Programming Since 1978 silver trophybronze trophy felgall's Avatar
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    LiveScript was the original name for JavaScript (from before Java became popular and Netscape decided to rename LiveScript to try to cash in on the popularity of Java).

    I don't know what rights Netscape might still hold over that name.

    JavaScript has been able to do asynchronous processing ever since the setTimeout and setInterval functions were introduced.
    Stephen J Chapman

    javascriptexample.net, Book Reviews, follow me on Twitter
    HTML Help, CSS Help, JavaScript Help, PHP/mySQL Help, blog
    <input name="html5" type="text" required pattern="^$">

  14. #14
    ♪♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪♪ ♪ ♪♪ Markdidj's Avatar
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    What would this be called, felgall?

    Are there any previous versions on the internet?

    BTW. You're a hard man to please, still
    LiveScript: Putting the "Live" Back into JavaScript
    if live output_as_javascript else output_as_html end if


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