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  1. #1
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    HTML/CSS advice, got any?

    Can someone show me the difference between like a blog editor and someone who does there own hard coding? Why is hard coding considered a better route? I know it's better because then I can actually create a login to my site for the most part.

    Also
    I'm on html/css and I'm learning more and more as I study it.

    I want to move onto...
    3. Javascript > flash - better than flash for the most part? An entire website in flash is bad for a beginner and only works well with well known companies? If I'm wrong here just say it.

    4. Php - best login systems, but it also has it's downfalls of terrible bugs in it. Can anyone justify php as the best or is it just the most used?

    Those are the 4 languages I want to learn to make a nice login blog with my own database. Anything else I should study? I got a couple of years to learn everything.

  2. #2
    om nom nom nom Stomme poes's Avatar
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    Can someone show me the difference between like a blog editor and someone who does there own hard coding? Why is hard coding considered a better route? I know it's better because then I can actually create a login to my site for the most part.
    That's a confusing question! But I'll call hard coding anything where you open up a text editor like Notepad or TextMate and start typing.

    3. Javascript > flash - better than flash for the most part? An entire website in flash is bad for a beginner and only works well with well known companies? If I'm wrong here just say it.
    Two very different things, although the ActionScript language in Flash is a sort of cousin to Javascript.
    Flash can only be viewed by those with the Flash player. Not all people have the Flash Player (I don't on my main machine, I do on my Windows section). HTML webpages are navigatable and usable by keyboard, stylus, even by finger (touchscreen). Flash only is if you build it so (meaning, you'd better be very good at Flash before building an entire website out of it). Flash has difficulty getting its content seen by search engines (google has a way to grab some of the text, but again, this is only if you build your Flash that way).
    Javascript was meant for a whole different thing, though nowadays it is overlapping some jobs that Flash only used to do. Look around the web for articles about Javascript written by Chris Heilmann, Dustin Diaz, James Edwards/brothercake, Douglad Crockford, and get an idea what you'll want to learn if you decide to learn Javascript.

    Both are good things to know if you want to be a front-end web developer, but getting very good at either will take plenty of time. Pick one and work on it first. I personally would choose Javascript, but I don't know what your ultimate goals are.

    4. Php - best login systems, but it also has it's downfalls of terrible bugs in it. Can anyone justify php as the best or is it just the most used?
    Well, I'm not going to sing PHP's praises, but most buggy PHP code is due to bad coders (one language may make it easier or harder for bad coders to get bad code working, but ultimately it's the quality of the coder and his/her code that determines how good it is).

    PHP has the advantage of being everywhere. Even the cheapest hosters have it.
    You mentioned blogs. Another advantage PHP has is that it runs some of the most popular blogging systems, such as Wordpress, Joomla! and Drupal.

    That said, you can choose any of the popular programming languages for back-end web development. I would suggest learning the principles of Good Programming in any case.

  3. #3
    Robert Wellock silver trophybronze trophy xhtmlcoder's Avatar
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    I am a hard-core coder but don't really focus upon server-side scripts. It depends upon how skilled you are as to whether you should write your own Blog or incorporate another system - usually due to security issues, etc.

    Flash is very niche if you are considering a whole website and usually causes a web accessibility nightmare amongst other interoperability problems.

    It may also help if you also learn about Relational Databases and MySQL if you interested in using PHP later since they work well together.

  4. #4
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    I really focus on client side scripting rather than server side ...it is left to one who opts to different technology ..whether you are creating ur own blog ...its fine u go a head with it ..flash is a good outstanding tech used world wide....
    Now a days cms technology is boosting in the market...it is based on php and my sql..it will be very useful if u stick to this ....

  5. #5
    SitePoint Wizard bronze trophy Black Max's Avatar
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    Not sure I understand the title of your post in the context of the actual post. Is it to entice readership? If so, we don't do that here.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Black Max View Post
    Not sure I understand the title of your post in the context of the actual post. Is it to entice readership? If so, we don't do that here.
    Might be a language issue - I've changed it to something more appropriate...
    Dave Maxwell - Manage Your Site Team Leader
    My favorite YouTube Video! | Star Wars, Dr Suess Style

  7. #7
    Follow: @AlexDawsonUK silver trophybronze trophy AlexDawson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 24788 View Post
    Can someone show me the difference between like a blog editor and someone who does there own hard coding? Why is hard coding considered a better route? I know it's better because then I can actually create a login to my site for the most part.
    The difference is that a blog editing program will produce code generically (it doesn't know what the right thing for the right job is, it just does whatever it's told). Machines can't understand context and as such, if a human is producing the source code by hand (rather than relying on some junky piece of software) they not only have full control over how the code is represented but they can avoid the extrenous code WYSIWYG / CMS software tends to produce (in order to make it work).

  8. #8
    SitePoint Wizard bronze trophy Black Max's Avatar
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    Thanks Dave. And you deleted my double post AND the apology. Have a coffee on me!

  9. #9
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    Lol, someone changed my title. I was trying to find some humour mostly in hardcoding to see if it's better or worst than a blog editor.

    Hardcoding = a rock - the worst - takes to long by the time your done your post may be irrelevant by a week. Like only people hardcore if they enjoy it not to make money.

    blog editor = mona lisa - the best easy to use faster cash due to faster up time.

    I was hoping for some examples , but my title seems different.

    All I've heard are that blog editors are better if your going for money since hardcoding takes too much time. Therefore hardcoding is a waste of time.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlexDawson View Post
    The difference is that a blog editing program will produce code generically (it doesn't know what the right thing for the right job is, it just does whatever it's told). Machines can't understand context and as such, if a human is producing the source code by hand (rather than relying on some junky piece of software) they not only have full control over how the code is represented but they can avoid the extrenous code WYSIWYG / CMS software tends to produce (in order to make it work).
    So your saying code = wait time on editors? It produces extra code since your writing over html/css with your own html/javascript?

    That doesn't make any sense on wait time. Code is so lightweight for the most part. 35 MBPS on a 100 MBPS connection means I might wait a .001 of a second longer which is unnoticable to me. Got a little better arguement for that unless I got it the wrong way?

  11. #11
    SitePoint Wizard bronze trophy Black Max's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 24788 View Post
    All I've heard are that blog editors are better if your going for money since hardcoding takes too much time. Therefore hardcoding is a waste of time.
    I don't mean to be insulting or disparaging, but this is absolutely, abjectly wrong. I'm not going to spend my time refuting this, any more than I spend my Thursday nights arguing with those worthy fellows at the Flat Earth Society. If you believe it, and if everything you think, say, and do is driven by trembly dreams of Big Money No Whammies, then by all means, go for your blog editors. For me and my ambitions, there's a lot more to life than earning humongous piles of cash for me to roll around in. One of those many, many ambitions is learning to hardcode Web pages with the best of the designers/coders out there, and money be damned.

  12. #12
    Follow: @AlexDawsonUK silver trophybronze trophy AlexDawson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 24788 View Post
    So your saying code = wait time on editors? It produces extra code since your writing over html/css with your own html/javascript?

    That doesn't make any sense on wait time. Code is so lightweight for the most part. 35 MBPS on a 100 MBPS connection means I might wait a .001 of a second longer which is unnoticable to me. Got a little better arguement for that unless I got it the wrong way?
    Actually you have it backwards, editors (which don't require you to produce the code itself) end up using more code than is necessary to markup the document because they simply have no idea what any of the elements were intended for so just use whatever they guess makes sense (they can't determine the best element for the right job). If you code your own stuff by hand you only use the code you require at the time you require it, by ensuring your code is of the highest semantic value you not only reduce file sizes and rendering times, you also give the content a better chance with search engines and social networks (as they will look at the clean appropriate markup and know exactly how the content was intended to appear - rather than an ugly mess that's been puked onto the page).

    PS: You're comparison of Internet speeds is (for lack of a better word) absurd, VERY FEW people in the world have a 100MB connection (the average is probably closer to 2MB in the western world - based on general statistics). What makes things worse is the more code bloat you have, the longer pages will take to load and considering there's a lot of 3rd world nations (and people who live in remote areas of America, Canada or other countries) who can still only get dial-up (yes that does exist still), you're going to make things harder for them as they're going to have to wait minutes more for the information to process. Also something you've failed to consider is the cellphone market, more and more people these days use a cellphone to access the internet (research shows it's approaching 10% at the moment), and with bandwidth caps on most services (or where you have to pay per GB or roaming charges) along with the general poor speeds of internet access on these devices (due to lack of 3G or WiFi in certain areas) you're going to give your end-user more of a chance of a heavier bill (or at least a very slow experience).

  13. #13
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    K, well my site doesn't seem to load very slow for a .37 mbps connection. I am on my t-mobile phone. The only site that never seems to take longer than 3-5 seconds is Google.com

    Black max - I'm not playing into code as a hobby. I learn it and enjoy it for the most part, but if something goes wrong you can screw up a whole site if you don't know what you are doing. That's where I worry with hard code for the most part and the fact that you have to back up everything. If people enjoy to write it as in professionally they can, but I'm not at the point where I can just sit down and take a couple of hours to write code. I'm at months of learning still. I'm going for the money currently + the content. The skeletons going to have to wait, but I want someone to give me the hard facts on differences.

    Alex Dawson - "So your saying code = wait time on editors? It produces extra code since your writing over html/css with your own html/javascript?"
    - 24788

    I was saying what you were saying. The code is more on editors. "code = wait time on editors.

    I see your points though Alex. I guess I forget that in the cities everything is better in terms of technology.

    The thing is I don't get though is that does 10 kb of text or 100 kb of text make that much of a difference or does code change when it's put into working mode? Does it become a larger file since it has to load? Since most of it is just extra text and text isn't very hard to load.

    10 kb of text vs 20 kb of text can that really change the load times by a few seconds?

  14. #14
    Mazel tov! bronze trophy kohoutek's Avatar
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    I'm having a hard time understanding what it is exactly you're looking to get advice on?

    In your opening post, I took it as you asking for advice on methods to learn HTML, CSS, Javascript, etc.

    Then you go on to conclude that "hardcoding" (may I ask what that means?) is a waste of time.

    What would you like to know? How to properly design a website? (that includes visual design, coding, information architecture, usability, content strategy, accessibility, and the list goes on...) Or how to make money fast, which is what your subsequent posts imply?

    If it's the former, then it is good to start with the very basics, that is HTML for content structure and CSS for content layout and presentation.

    I presume you mean hand coding (rather than hardcoding), so yes, if your goal is to become a front-end web developer, then it is sensible to be able to code everything by hand, meaning without the help of WYSIWIG preview editors.

    Coding by hand not only gives you ultimate control, but it is the fastest way for you to understand how every line of code affects your layout and gives meaning to your content.

    Later on, when you're confident in these (markup) languages, you can create libraries with reusable code to ease the process.

    You can also use a Content Management System (CMS) to aid you in effectively saving time and putting a greater focus on writing content.

    To work with a CMS, however, you do need to know at least the basics of web design & development.

    If you're just looking to make money or are interested in creating superb content without wanting to have to bother with technical humbug, I'd suggest that you either hire a web designer (costly) or sign up for a free hosted blog solution such as blogger, wordpress.com (not .org!) and other, similar services.

    Another really sweet option is offered by services like Squarespace. It's probably something I'd choose, where I to not want to spend any money on my website.
    Maleika E. A. | Rockatee | Twitter | Dribbble



  15. #15
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    My original thread title was humour, but someone changed it to make it more confusing.

    "Can someone show me the difference between like a blog editor and someone who does there own hard coding? Why is hard coding considered a better route? I know it's better because then I can actually create a login to my site for the most part." -24788

    I was looking for some humour between these two, but all it's done is cause confusion then I was asking for help on different languages I should be learning. I want clear cut facts between the two on which is better.

    I wanted the humour to be more like dissing each side on which is better.

    You did pretty well on hitting the tip of the discussion kohoutek. Thank you.

    I'm using quick blogcast which seems like a nightmare, but I fear transferring due to losing everything. I am almost at 200 blog posts for my fitness blog and would hate to lose this content at this point and have to start over. I am fearful of transferring over to my hardcode to only make a mistake and have it all gone. Just looking for all my options currently. I want to hit 1k blog posts in 2 years and would hate to transfer that many blog posts.

    Thanks kohoutek.

  16. #16
    Mazel tov! bronze trophy kohoutek's Avatar
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    Then it seems like the most sensible idea is to find an import tool/script with which you can move your files from Quick Blogcast onto a platform of your choice.

    Here's one meager article: http://help.godaddy.com/article/5046

    Of course Godaddy provides a tool to import entries from other platforms to Blogcast, but not vice versa. Clever business decision (not!)

    Other than that I think you're out of luck, unless someone can write a small script for you to make the process of transferring the files to your desired platform easier.

    From what I've seen on the net, people seem to have done it manually.
    Maleika E. A. | Rockatee | Twitter | Dribbble



  17. #17
    Robert Wellock silver trophybronze trophy xhtmlcoder's Avatar
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    Yes, the title has been warped, it should have said something like; Discuss the (dis)advantages of hand-coding a complete Blog verses editing a pre-packaged one - obviously that's too wordy but it would have made more sense.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by kohoutek View Post
    Then it seems like the most sensible idea is to find an import tool/script with which you can move your files from Quick Blogcast onto a platform of your choice.

    Here's one meager article: http://help.godaddy.com/article/5046

    Of course Godaddy provides a tool to import entries from other platforms to Blogcast, but not vice versa. Clever business decision (not!)

    Other than that I think you're out of luck, unless someone can write a small script for you to make the process of transferring the files to your desired platform easier.

    From what I've seen on the net, people seem to have done it manually.
    If you do it manually that would create 100+ error pages. Should I wait until I am big enough to be able to do this? I hate Godaddy as anything else than a domain register.

  19. #19
    Mazel tov! bronze trophy kohoutek's Avatar
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    Yes, but you are on Godaddy right now, correct? If so, I'd not waste anymore time with the blogcast stuff and move your content to a platform that allows for a bit more flexibility and control over your content.

    I don't quite understand the 100+ error pages? Do you have your domain with Godaddy as well? If so, then it should be possible for you to go with a different webhost and have your DNS servers set so that the old pages direct to the new ones. You might not even have to change the URL schemata (guessing here).

    If you plan on having 1k+ posts, it'd make sense to do it now rather than later, in my opinion anyway.
    Maleika E. A. | Rockatee | Twitter | Dribbble



  20. #20
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    What your saying is that the content is not connected to the editor, but it's connected to the domain name?

    The link you gave me said I could put it into wordpress.org. I am going to go see what he editor is like. Probably buy some hosting and play around with the wordpress.org editor/set up until I get it.

    Thanks

  21. #21
    Mazel tov! bronze trophy kohoutek's Avatar
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    I am merely guessing here as I haven't a clue what your setup is like. I thought you were the editor of your own content. If so, you should be able to take your content and move it to a different host or platform.
    Maleika E. A. | Rockatee | Twitter | Dribbble



  22. #22
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    I only write the content as in pages. Not the html/css

  23. #23
    Mazel tov! bronze trophy kohoutek's Avatar
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    Ok, now I'm confused. What setup do you have? You have an account with Godaddy, yes? You are using blogcast to write your entries, correct? You have a domain name, yes? If all of this is wrong, please ellaborate what your settings are, so that we can give you adequate advice.
    Maleika E. A. | Rockatee | Twitter | Dribbble



  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by kohoutek View Post
    Ok, now I'm confused. What setup do you have? You have an account with Godaddy, yes? You are using blogcast to write your entries, correct? You have a domain name, yes? If all of this is wrong, please ellaborate what your settings are, so that we can give you adequate advice.
    1. Domain - Fithope = Mine
    2. Godaddy - Domain = Mine
    3. Content
    Content as in writing is mine. Such as copywrite.

    Content as in html/css is not mine (editor). That belongs to the copyright owner. Quick blogcast. The editor is what I'm talking about here.

    quick blog cast itself. I only edit the css to make it work for me.

    I think 3 is where I'm confusing you by talking about it too much.

    I want to transfer out of quick blogcast and go to word press.org? The one where I can just use plug ins such as templates (not sure how this is done). I want control of my html/css and a little javascript in a nut shell, so I can work with my advertisements. The free word press.org?

    Here's what my end game is.
    1. Better control over advertisements. Redirect error pages into a main page meant for errors, so there's 1 error page rather than infinite error pages. This is so my advertisements won't load on error pages. This is to protect my account at this time. I want total control over all my error pages like they do on youtube.

  25. #25
    Mazel tov! bronze trophy kohoutek's Avatar
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    Now it all makes sense to me!

    I would have suggested using a hosted solution such as wordpress.com or blogger.com, but now that you have clearly stated that you want control, there's just one option left; A self-hosted solution.

    You now have plenty of possibilities. The easiest and most popular application for bloggers is without a doubt WordPress.

    Here are some steps you need to do next:

    Server/Host

    Server space (you probably already have bought a hosting plan on Godaddy). Get yourself a real plan, not one that is dependent on apps like Quick Blogcast, etc. I'd terminate that plan and get yourself a proper one from Godaddy or any other good host.

    Make sure your plan has the following min. requirements:


    • PHP5
    • MySQL
    • Database
    • The possibility to add/edit/remove files on the server


    Those are the minimum features a hosting plan must offer in order for you to be able to run WordPress or any other PHP-based CMS.

    You must also be able to point your Godaddy domain to your nameservers.

    When you have your host installed and your domain pointed to your namesevers, you can start installing a CMS.

    This is pretty easy should you use something like WordPress.

    See the installation guide: http://codex.wordpress.org/Installing_WordPress

    As you might not want to meddle with HTML/CSS, you can use their default theme or choose one of the millions of free themes out there and apply it to your site.

    That's it. For writing your content, you have a editor integrated, so writing your content is just as simple and easy as doing it with Blogcast and the like. You won't have to do anything with the code, provided you are OK with the setup of a pre-made theme (design).

    For all the extra functionality (youtube videos and control, etc.) there are plenty of plug'n play plugins available to you.

    PS: You'll likely have to copy & paste your articles into WordPress as there's no premade tool for it. So, unless you have a programmer to do it for you, manual porting of your articles will be the way to go.
    Maleika E. A. | Rockatee | Twitter | Dribbble




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