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  1. #1
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    IE9 is now under development !!!

    http://blogs.msdn.com/ie/archive/200...evelopers.aspx

    great work, better CSS3 support too
    [Home Sweet Home]

  2. #2
    SitePoint Wizard bronze trophy bluedreamer's Avatar
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    That's good news, I'm certainly glad the browser wars have started up again.

    Kudos to the IE team, they're heading in the right direction

  3. #3
    Guru in training bronze trophy SoulScratch's Avatar
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    Great, so that's 4 IE versions I'll have to worry about ( considering my sites' specific demographic for IE6 is still nowhere near lower than 25% hence still supporting it for the next 3 years ). IE6 should've been IE7, IE7 should've been IE8 and IE8 should have been IE9. By the time IE9 comes around it will support what IE8 should have supported but again, will be behind the other browsers' rendering engines. They should just seriously stop developing, save all that time and use Webkit.

    Not impressed at all.
    Cross browser css bugs

    Dan Schulz you will be missed

  4. #4
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    It is good news BUT I wish they use WebKit..
    [Home Sweet Home]

  5. #5
    I meant that to happen silver trophybronze trophy Raffles's Avatar
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    Let's face it, whatever works in IE8 will work in IE9, so it's no big deal. I can't believe there are actually complaints that MS are updating their browser at more or less the same pace as Mozilla, Opera, etc. It's a fantastic opportunity for actually using the CSS3 stuff that so far everyone but IE has been supporting, for progressively enhancing things (not for layout or important things like that).

    I just hope they finally update their JavaSCript to at least support nice things like Array.forEach and of course the more ancient things like addEventListener and passing the event object as an argument!!

  6. #6
    #titanic {float:none} silver trophy
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    I don't think that the complaint is that Microsoft is developing a new version... but that it took them too long to develope IE7 and IE8 and therefore we are still having to deal with IE6.

    It seems that Microsoft is again at work. Windows 7 released, now IE9... I'm glad that they're adding CSS3 support too.

  7. #7
    Guru in training bronze trophy SoulScratch's Avatar
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    Each version of IE has specific DOM/CSS bugs ( and as we all know usually IE browsers have dozens of times more bugs than the other browser vendors ), I'm complaining because IE9 would introduce yet another whole slew of them even if they fixed the ones they were supposed to have fixed years ago. If they stopped it here we'd only have to worry about 3 IE versions and if they transitioned to using Webkit we'd spend hundreds of less hours of future time potentially running into future bugs and discrepancies between 4 IE versions. Ugh. While the IE team is busy making IE9 support features from a year ago, Opera/Mozilla/Safari devs will implement newer features in the next 2 years which the IE team won't know about or even have time to implement, so we'll be back to square one at them not keeping up with the rapid pace of web development in this day and age.
    Cross browser css bugs

    Dan Schulz you will be missed

  8. #8
    padawan silver trophybronze trophy markbrown4's Avatar
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    I'm pleased to see the IE team working on this.

    It would be great if they could market their new browser in the media though. I'm often suprised with how little people know about browsers.
    Which version of IE do you use at...?
    Ummm, 2007?
    Office 2007 is the newest version so that's pretty up-to-date, IE will be either version 6,7 or 8.
    Hmm, don't know.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raffles View Post
    Let's face it, whatever works in IE8 will work in IE9, so it's no big deal. I can't believe there are actually complaints that MS are updating their browser at more or less the same pace as Mozilla, Opera, etc. It's a fantastic opportunity for actually using the CSS3 stuff that so far everyone but IE has been supporting, for progressively enhancing things (not for layout or important things like that).

    I just hope they finally update their JavaSCript to at least support nice things like Array.forEach and of course the more ancient things like addEventListener and passing the event object as an argument!!
    I guess the problem is that IE is three seperate browsers (soon to be 4), whereas e.g. Firefox is seen as one, not ff1 ff1.5 ff2 ff3. Perhaps it's just me, but I don't test every version of webkit or ff, I do have to test every version of IE though.

  10. #10
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    I'm not surprised. I'm sure the next Win is in the works as well. If they didn't always have a new version of their products in the works what would be the point?

  11. #11
    I meant that to happen silver trophybronze trophy Raffles's Avatar
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    I guess the problem is that IE is three seperate browsers (soon to be 4), whereas e.g. Firefox is seen as one, not ff1 ff1.5 ff2 ff3. Perhaps it's just me, but I don't test every version of webkit or ff
    That's potentially just as wrong. For example, Firefox didn't support :last-child or display:inline-block until pretty recently. If you go back to FF2, there are further gaps in support that people might take for granted nowadays and which could seriously break a web page. But yeah, of course the proportion of FF2 users is near-negligible, whereas the proportion of IE6 users (a far inferior browser) is not, so the urgency behind testing and supporting FF2 is not as high.

  12. #12
    padawan silver trophybronze trophy markbrown4's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raffles View Post
    That's potentially just as wrong. For example, Firefox didn't support :last-child or display:inline-block until pretty recently. If you go back to FF2, there are further gaps in support that people might take for granted nowadays and which could seriously break a web page. But yeah, of course the proportion of FF2 users is near-negligible, whereas the proportion of IE6 users (a far inferior browser) is not, so the urgency behind testing and supporting FF2 is not as high.
    I'd go as far as to say it's only important to support the latest versions of the other browsers. IE is the anomaly where users haven't chosen to use it.

  13. #13
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    @hash, that's generally because Firefox has built-in updating mechanism's, and has a more technically minded user base than IE. IE is also relied upon in many organisations, so upgrading IE in such an organisation would require that all internal web applications, not only work in a more recent version of IE, but have vendor support for that particular version.

    While I agree, it would be very nice if IE9 used webkit, I imagine there would be conflicting licensing issues. It's just another thing to consider.

  14. #14
    SitePoint Author Kevin Yank's Avatar
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    When I interviewed Chris Wilson ahead of IE7’s release, this is what he had to say about adopting WebKit or Gecko in Internet Explorer:
    As for building on WebKit or Gecko or any of the other engines, part of that I'm sure probably is that we would have to leap through some licensing challenges there. But, the biggest reason for me is that there's a real responsibility when we ship code, particularly to half a billion people, and we would be taking on that responsibility for a set of code that we don't own, we didn't come up with it, we're not experts in it, and there's a lot of code there. But we're blamed if something goes wrong; even further than that, we're responsible for it if something goes wrong. So, you know, if there's a security exploit, we have to go fix it, we have to go deliver the fix immediately, or it's-- we're on the line for that. And that makes it a bit challenging.
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  15. #15
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    Updated to IE8 users still do not have much, IE9 out again
    Since then more of the CSS code is not compatible
    Or want to continuously improve on the original IE

  16. #16
    ¬.¬ shoooo... silver trophy logic_earth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SoulScratch View Post
    ...again considering IE is the least secure of the browsers.
    Least secure? How is it least secure? Is there any provable information that shows that the other browsers have no security issues? Out of all the browser in the wild none of them have as much built in protection as IE. So tell me, how does that make it the least secure? Because everyone attacks it? Well then we should all move to Firefox or another browser. But when that happens guess what? The attackers will follow.

    Complaining because Microsoft it developing there own browser is just... Do you want another IE6 plateau? We are stuck with IE 6 because Microsoft stop developing IE for several several years. And now they have started again and you are complaining? Seriously...?
    Logic without the fatal effects.
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  17. #17
    Programming Since 1978 silver trophybronze trophy felgall's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wardrop View Post
    @hash, that's generally because Firefox has built-in updating mechanism's
    IE has had a built in update mechanism since before the Mozilla open cource project started (which led to phoenix/firebird/firefox).

    When Microsoft set the trigger to automatically upgrade IE6 to IE7 they got so many complaints about broken code that they had to turn it off. There are too many intranet sites that specifically require IE6 and which will not work on any other browser.

    The problem has been that it was difficult for companies to have IE6 for their intranet and the latest version of IE for internet use and so their staff have been forced to use IE6 for everything. Windows 7 fixes that problem and so as companies upgrade to Windows 7 they should be able to set things up to use IE6 for their intranet and IE8 (or 9 when it is ready) for the internet.
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  18. #18
    $books++ == true matsko's Avatar
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    I could really care less which browser is more secure and better to use. As long as the features for development are improved drastically in IE9 (pretty much up to where webkit is as of now) then the development possibilities will be endless.

    Think about all the hidden gems that are supported, almost, in all the other popular browsers: Rounded Corners, CSS3 Selectors, CSS Grids and Columns, CSS Gradients and RGBA, CSS Transformations, Multiple and Border Backgrounds, Canvas, Video and Audio. Now imagine if IE9 supported everything, then there would be an entirely new list of proprietary browser features that would further push the envelope.

    Its only actually recently (within the past two years) that the list of features that was mentioned above has actually made its way into the browser arms race. But imagine if those features were supported a couple years back by all browsers. Then there would be an even more advanced series of hidden gems out for grabs.

    If you can imagine how war can influence the advances in technology, but, instead, just think about browsers. Once again, if there wasn't such a huge gap in development features (IE compared to all others) and if IE didn't have such a large market share, then who knows what kind of awesome development gems and websites, applications, and tools would be created.

    Not to mention all the compound and pseudo inventions that are used by clever developers - like for example CSS arrows. Now if there was a border-arrow css property then there wouldn't have been a need create that, but since those tools do not exist, developers have had to think outside the box. Just think about what the possibilities would be if all the CSS features were available.

    Its great that IE is finally (somewhat) catching up, but, yes, I do agree that its a good three or four years behind where it should be.
    I can't believe I ate the whole thing

  19. #19
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    Now the real battle for the web browsers have started ...... I think other web browsers should start developing or add extra attributes to their browsers....

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by felgall View Post
    The problem has been that it was difficult for companies to have IE6 for their intranet and the latest version of IE for internet use and so their staff have been forced to use IE6 for everything.
    It's not just IE6. I am currently working with someone that cannot upgrade 7 -> 8 because of internal apps and IT policy. I also recently had someone refuse to upgrade 7-> 8 (personal project, knew the guy etc, but why I cannot understand).

    @raffles, I agree, but it's simply budget. I get no complaints about Firefox 1 or 2, I do get complaints about IE6 and 7.

  21. #21
    om nom nom nom Stomme poes's Avatar
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    I just hope they finally update their JavaSCript to at least support nice things like Array.forEach and of course the more ancient things like addEventListener and passing the event object as an argument!!
    Just basic w3c stuff, instead of the constant object detection, would be nice.)

    @hash, that's generally because Firefox has built-in updating mechanism's, and has a more technically minded user base than IE.
    I know a lot of people who refuse to update from FF2 because despite the security and bug fixes, FF3 came with a lot of extra garbage. Can it be removed? Probably, but we're lazy and don't want to spend a bunch of time figuring out how to "fix" an "awesomebar". Seriously, that name is pants.

    I could really care less which browser is more secure and better to use. As long as the features for development are improved drastically in IE9 (pretty much up to where webkit is as of now) then the development possibilities will be endless.
    I'm not a feature-creature. I don't need jazz in my browsers. As a developer, I want consistency. I want the same code to work the same way cross browser, device independent. I would never trade rounded corner bloat for protection against, say, clickjacking (tho sure, it would be ideal to have both).

    If you can imagine how war can influence the advances in technology, but, instead, just think about browsers. Once again, if there wasn't such a huge gap in development features (IE compared to all others) and if IE didn't have such a large market share, then who knows what kind of awesome development gems and websites, applications, and tools would be created.
    Interesting idea, though for some reason war with software seems to not always favour the better software. Instead, war of the browsers gave us conflicting specifications. IE sure was busy in the beginning with their own versions of... just about everything. It's not just that they fell behind, but also that they had a ton of extra features that were IE-only. More like a fork than a lag.

    So clearly, we need a steel-fisted dictator who can force everyone to react to x in y manner. Not that pansy "let's make a small suggestion" W3C, but jack-booted thugs on the ground webstandardista religious hardline theocracy, run by a maniacal, paranoid Ayatolla who knows how to get things done.
    Maybe a shadowy figure will rise through the secret ranks at Opera, will break out in a surprise attack, take over, and bring MS (and gecko and webkit) to its knees... and force them to switch over to Presto.
    To alleviate MS' fear that people will blame them for bugs they don't understand or can't fix, their humiliating takeover will be made very, very public.

    Muhahahahha...

  22. #22
    SitePoint Member robbin.joe's Avatar
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    great, i hate ie8, and would like to change it

  23. #23
    @alexstanford Alex's Avatar
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    This is good news, glad to see activity out of Microsoft's IE dev team.

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  24. #24
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    I'm not sure what's going on in M$ but I think they finally got a guy who's making it RIGHT! Honestly though, putting IE9 in development is way too early! Hack, I'm still in IE7 and no desire to move on to 8. I think they should put that development as part of patch to IE8. Having constant release like these could have a negative impact. Do they really want IE 10 and it's still broken browser? Anyways, just glad that they have some people who knows what they are doing.

    Another point. As some of you may rejoice new version of IE but I'm pretty sure that any popular JS framework groups are probably terrified what they have done and hopefully it'll be backward compliant.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by sg707 View Post
    I'm not sure what's going on in M$ but I think they finally got a guy who's making it RIGHT! Honestly though, putting IE9 in development is way too early! Hack, I'm still in IE7 and no desire to move on to 8. I think they should put that development as part of patch to IE8. Having constant release like these could have a negative impact. Do they really want IE 10 and it's still broken browser? Anyways, just glad that they have some people who knows what they are doing.

    Another point. As some of you may rejoice new version of IE but I'm pretty sure that any popular JS framework groups are probably terrified what they have done and hopefully it'll be backward compliant.
    Too early? Do you want IE8 to become like IE6 - inactive for a long time?
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