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  1. #26
    SitePoint Wizard masm50's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sagewing View Post
    ...according to the law in most countries with modern intellectual property rules, it's theft. Whether someone benefits or not isn't really a concept of whether it's theft or not.
    Well that's not quite true.

    Under UK law theft is (to paraphrase) dishonestly appropriating property belonging to another with the intention of permanently depriving the other of it. ie - That person no longer has the use of the object.

    Downloading an unauthorised digital copy is in most cases a civil tort of copyright infringement (well in most cases if you aren't trying to profit off the piracy).

    These are pretty different no matter how much the various industries try to equate them. It was still piracy and copyright infringement when people 20 years ago used to make mixtapes for their friends/lovers (and the industry kicked up a fuss about taping killing music), but I don't think people really argued morally against it. Yes it is on a much smaller scale, and the effect on the industry was negligible if not positive, but if you are going to equate copyright infringement to theft - that should be in the same boat.

    Now I'm not trying to justify piracy, and the scale of it today is a major issue for all intellectual property industries - I do a lot of work with bands and record labels, and see first hand the damage being done to many of them - but downloading is not the same as theft.

    Unlike music, however, I see a deeper problem with piracy for book publishers and film studios as there is no way for them to make money from touring, licensing deals, etc. Once Kindles/Nooks/iPads/etc become commonplace the publishing industry will have some major problems as file sizes are so small and so are very easy to share. I personally can't see myself ditching hardcopy books anytime soon (I still buy my music on vinyl (which coincidentally tend to come with free and legal high quality mp3 downloads too these days which is great)), but as technology progresses on colour e-ink, portability and battery life I'm sure I will eventually.

    As of ways to take on the problem...

    I think some form of subscription option may work - where authors could release the code examples separately, or release each chapter weekly/monthly as soon as it is written. The pace at which technical or internet related books become relatively obsolete means that getting the information early is a scarcity that could be monetised.

    Private live workshops sold along with the books could also be another way to add value, as people could get priority answers to their questions related to the book or even on related topics from the expert in the field that has written the book.

    On a related note - how effective do you feel PiracyGuard has been for Sitepoint so far and what made you choose them over their competitors such as WebSheriff?

  2. #27
    SitePoint Wizard Dean C's Avatar
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    Let me make it clear: I'm completely against piracy. I wanted to make this clear as often when I make this argument people confuse it with supporting the pirates.

    Alas, I think you're wasting your time using companies like these. They may have success with take-down notices but people who really want to find something will always find it. It also only takes one host in a country with different laws to ours to reject your take-down notice or ignore it and people can still find your books. Besides this, there is a whole other level of piracy that exists behind closed doors on private ftps, private forums, newsgroups, private torrent trackers etc. that you'll never hit.

    I don't have a solution to your problem as I'm just a programmer. I could probably stop people pirating your digitally distributed books and give ideas how you could watermark print copies (which would also work for identifying the source of people who scanned books) but publishers will never invest in these things as it cuts into their profits.

  3. #28
    ✯✯✯ silver trophybronze trophy php_daemon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MartinCooper View Post
    I am actually quite quilty on this. Mostly Games
    Check out Steam. The prices vary from cheaper to more expencive than buying in store, but beats the convenience even of the pirated games.
    Saul

  4. #29
    Floridiot joebert's Avatar
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    It all boils down to risk VS reward. There is little to no risk involved in downloading electronic media, and the reward can be in the thousands of dollars for things like suites of Adobe tools.

    As long as there is little to no risk, people will continue to do it.

    As much as everyone hates them, the RIAA has the right idea.

  5. #30
    SitePoint Wizard masm50's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by joebert View Post
    As much as everyone hates them, the RIAA has the right idea.
    I can't agree with that statement as regards the creative industries. I forget which musician said it last month, but currently what makes us love these creative things is how they ellicit emotional responses and what each song, films, or book

    There's the song that defined a period of your life and brings memories flooding back - whether that is memories of first love, travelling, or whatever - we have emotional responses. You will never forget the song you lost your virginity too.

    Similarly, there are books that made you re-evaluate your life or your experiences, or remind you of situations you've faced, and films that do the same and even the cinema trip may bring back strong memories.

    If you are the band or author that suddenly reminds people of when you or a friend were sued to bankrupsy for - that emotional response that gives creative intellectual property value is suddenly diminished.

    Going after the uploaders does not have the same downside as straight up suing your own fans. Also, laws are not the same the world over (and they shouldn't be either as they developed from different cultures to protect different sectors differently), so people will just go more anonymous if they feel threatened in this way by using international VPNs or similar.

    Again I don't support piracy - but it is here to stay, and the litigation route is not successful and with the scale of the problem will never be so.

  6. #31
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    Some would argue what is the point in buying software, who are you going to show the box too ?

  7. #32
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    So, one thing I have wondered, what is the difference between downloading a book, reading it, then deleting it after two weeks, and checking a book out of the library for two weeks? As far as I can tell, the library provides a slight fraction of a cent more profit to the publisher than the initial uploader.

    I've never pirated a Sitepoint book, but I also have never bought one at full price. I've always waited until you have a sale. To be blunt, 30+ dollars is way more than what I consider your books to be worth. Plus, I'm a student living on loans, I can't afford to be frivolous.

    Also, take-down notices are a waste of money. You will never get be able to beat the pirates. They will always find another place to upload your books. It's wrong, they shouldn't do that, but they do.

    The solution is, as at least one other post said, is to figure out how to use piracy to make money.

    One way to reduce the number of people who download illegally would be to stop charging extra for buying both the hard copy and the pdf. If I bought the hard copy, I'd just have to scan it in to get a pdf. Why should I waste my time on that, when I can get the pdf free? After all, I already paid for it. Or at least reduce the extra price for the pdf to something reasonable. Like a couple bucks.
    --David Reagan
    DavidReagan.net

  8. #33
    phpLD Fanatic bronze trophy dvduval's Avatar
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    In our case, they have to install our software to a website, and we have had great success with hosts helping us by taking those sites offline. Most major hosts have hundreds of sites on their servers using our software, and we have a good relationship with them, and even get expedited service. Generally, hosts don't like to monkey around with users involved in illegal activities as they are more trouble than they are worth.

    When we do catch people (and we do look around frequently), the site gets taken offline, and they really have no choice but to get a license, and can also be in danger of losing their hosting account, domain name or both. We don't get into why the software is unlicensed or how they obtained. Either they have a license or not, and if not, the host takes the site offline. Sometimes they get multiple sites taken down at once.

    Anyways, we have been quite pleased with 99.99% of hosts and their willingness to help us.

  9. #34
    SitePoint Wizard Stomme poes's Avatar
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    And many many people have always claimed, the more that's pirated the more that sells, but I'm still not sure how to take that.
    I think that statement comes from the idea that anything highly pirated is very popular, and therefore also gets bought as well. Or, with anything indie, it may start out download-only, before gaining enough momentum to get available from a real publisher/record label/software company. That's not the same as piracy encouraging purchase... I don't think it usually does (may in some cases).

    So, one thing I have wondered, what is the difference between downloading a book, reading it, then deleting it after two weeks, and checking a book out of the library for two weeks? As far as I can tell, the library provides a slight fraction of a cent more profit to the publisher than the initial uploader.
    Well, usually libraries buy those copies. Our libraries paid full cost, unless they were getting something like Harry Potter books where they'd buy several copies... then they'd get bulk and library discount.

    Borrowing isn't stealing. However things like books are often consumed once, so borrowing can prevent buying. That can be a problem (for the author). Games, software, music, are more long-term use.

    I'm also in a country where the laws state very clearly that downloading is legal. However, uploading is illegal, so torrenting anything illegal is itself illegal here.

    I've never copied a book from online. I have downloaded music. Any bands/groups I like, I either go to the concerts, buy stuff (shirts), and/or try to get hard copies, because of the fact that they survive as musicians by selling music. If I like them, I need to support them. It's like, my duty as a fan.

    Something like a SitePoint book, at least in a field I have an interest in, is something I would always pay for. SitePoint often has free chapters so you can get the feel of how it's written for free. I would figure that anyone getting free ones from pirate centers, if they get a benefit from the books, would save up and buy oneŚ the HTML Utopia book, after it was read and done, was still sitting on my desk for another year as an easy, on-paper lookup of CSS properties in Appendix C.

    Other stuff related to computers, information being free and online is what contributes to the growth of the internet. I can look up anything about Perl online, despite all the books. I needed to remember how to do something in vi over the weekend: it was online in a bazillion places. I think this is where the idea that programming and web design books are ok to download... it's been a strong part of the online and programming culture for a while now, in my opinion. We'll see what it does to publishers...

  10. #35
    SitePoint Wizard
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShayneTilley View Post
    The reality is that more people pirate our books than buy them, I don't know to what ratio -- I probably don't want to know. And many many people have always claimed, the more that's pirated the more that sells, but I'm still not sure how to take that. Love to hear your input.
    Piracy does not necessarily indicate a lost sale. You cannot lose a sale you were never going to get. Most people who download pirated works are not ever going to buy it. They download it because it is there and available to them. With hard drives the size of terabytes and high speed internet, the temptation is to go wild and download everything you can get your hands on. Some people do.

    I stopped downloading MP3s when Lars Ulrich from Metallica started acting like a big baby because he wasn't getting his royalties and the RIAA started suing people. Almost everything I ever downloaded I was never going to buy because I did not like it enough to pay money for it. If it was there for the taking, sure, I'd grab it. But if something had enough value to me, I would buy it. MP3s are an inferior format and CDs sound better. I like physical books over digital books, anyway. Reading a digital book does not do it for me and I find it inefficient, at least with the PDF versions of free books I've seen. So if I found something I liked, I would buy it. I would settle with an electronic version if the price was right.

    I happen to think that e-commerce never grew as big as predicted because the prices for which things sell offers little economic benefit. If I go to Best Buy to buy something or buy it on the manufacturer's website, I pay pretty much the same price.

    Looking for a pirated version of something online is hit or miss, anyway. If you look for something, odds are you are not going to find it. So you grab whatever is there. If that happens to be a Sitepoint book, someone is going to grab it if it is there.

    Bottom line: I would not take piracy figures as measures of lost sales.

    As far as you holier-than-thou "copyright infringers are crooks" people, how many of you have watched a copyrighted work on Youtube uploaded without the copyright holder's consent? Let he who lives without copyright sin cast the first stone.

    Quote Originally Posted by bluedreamer View Post
    Then I have a musician friend who's produced a dozen albums and used to get by on the royalties. He's by no means rich so that income kept food on his table, but in recent years his roylaties have dwindled away to virtually nothing, all because people are pirating his lifes work. Is he annoyed - you bet! Heavy depression now rules his life. I've offered to help him get some of his songs on legitimate music sites but his attitude is still "why bother?".
    Basically, the guy is upset because he isn't getting paid for sitting on his butt doing nothing?

    I support eliminating copyright protections for music and movies. Give the producers one year to make money, then *&^% them. If these people want a regular income they can get up and go to work everyday like the rest of us.

    People don't seem to realize an important fact (at least in the USA): there is no constitutionally guaranteed right to intangible intellectual property rights. They are granted by the people and can thus be taken away by the people. And I think they should be taken away. The music and movie industry is by far the most profitable and most of them pretend to support wealth redistribution to rectify income inequities, anyway. Let's give them what they ask for, I say.

    By the way, I haven't downloaded a pirated MP3 in years, have never downloaded a pirated movie (I don't waste time with movies), and haven't looked for serial numbers to activate trial software to full versions in years. But if I found an MP3 I was interested in, you never know, I just might download it. But I might not.

    Copyright infringement is largely an opportunity "crime".

  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerrac View Post
    I've never pirated a Sitepoint book, but I also have never bought one at full price. I've always waited until you have a sale. To be blunt, 30+ dollars is way more than what I consider your books to be worth. Plus, I'm a student living on loans, I can't afford to be frivolous.
    You raise a good point. What would sales be if electronic versions were $5? There is a pricing point where revenue is maximized. It usually isn't the highest possible price and isn't the lowest possible price. In reality, it is impossible to tell where it is without a lot of experimentation.

    Would Wal-Mart have been as successful charging top dollar as they have been charging close to the lowest prices?

    Let us not forget we are just coming out of a global economic downturn. More people are probably turning away from legitimate purchases and looking for something pirated and some will shift back when the economy recovers.

  12. #37
    SitePoint Wizard Stomme poes's Avatar
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    MP3s are an inferior format and CDs sound better. I like physical books over digital books, anyway.
    ++, quoted for truth.

    People don't seem to realize an important fact (at least in the USA): there is no constitutionally guaranteed right to intangible intellectual property rights.
    Well, doesn't the Constitution only mention "property"? Anyway, I'm mostly against software patents and regional encoding, but copyright I believe is essential: it's basically the foundation of copyleft, which allows people to create and share things like programming languages and software, without having to worry that some Big Evil Corporation will take it, modify it slightly, then prosecute anyone else giving away or using the old software by claiming it's theirs (I remember SCO Linux fight). Without copyright, there is no copyleft. Copyright is also how people can fight big companies from stealing their stuff and getting rich off others' work (remember how Disney and everyone else basically made off like bandits with The Lion Sleeps Tonight song and sold thousands of copies?? Sometimes I find the whole royalty-suing thing bogus, but here it was necessary: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solomon_Linda#Death).

  13. #38
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    I don't try to justify piracy. Some people say that it's alright if the producer in question is some big company, and yet others say that it is definitely wrong. Who is to say who is right? Arguing on morals is shaky ground, and you are just going to hear the same old arguments that lead nowhere. I am more interested in the practical effects of piracy. Yes, one person pirating (especially if it's a big company) will not make a difference -- there is no doubt about that. However, it is when others join you that it is a problem. In that case, my take on piracy is that, if you decide to pirate, then keep it yourself and lie to everyone else -- say you bought it. Don't try to rationalize it with other people. At least your friend won't join you, or will his or her friends, which would greatly multiply the damage.

    Copyright must exist though. Without it, people would have no incentive to spend their hard work if they are not going to be able to benefit or support their life.

    From a producer's point of view, my opinion is that piracy is inevitable and one should do what is necessary to understand the motivations for piracy and reduce the incentive for it. I generally don't believe in after going people, except when you can actually going after a significant majority of pirates, because it is usually not very effective. In many cases, figuring out why the piracy exists and closing off that reasoning hole works much better. What iTunes did to reduce piracy was probably much more than what the RIAA did. It provided very convenient access to individual songs at reasonable prices during a time when P2P was the only real source of that, and for free too.

  14. #39
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    Phrase "morally wrong" is being thrown out in this discussion and it doesn't belong here.
    You're assuming that you're moral verticals for buying things that shouldn't get charged in the first place.

    Capitalism is one of the worst systems human kind invented, and since we live in such system and in an era where world is governed by wealth in form of money - you cannot deem one a thief for taking something that holds knowledge.

    I never saw an entertainer starving to death because someone from Macedonia downloaded their album and listened to it.
    I never saw anyone from Sitepoint begging for money at the street or digging holes for living because someone from Romania downloaded their book over torrent.

    Sorry to say, but this discussion is really pointless. Your starting point, that theft = piracy is simply wrong. Piracy is a neccessity of modern age. There are many brilliant minds out there who cannot get the knowledge they seek for the "regular" way. It's one thing if someone breaks into your appartment and physically steals a book you wrote and completely another if a transcript of your book finds itself in electronic format ready for masses to read.

    What if I bought your book and gave it to my local library where hundreds of people could borrow it and read it? Are they thieves?

    What if I hear a catchy song and I reproduce it on my guitar and I sing it in my own free time? Am I a thief for being able to remember a song and replay it?

    It boils down to this: people who use pirated software want the same things that people who buy the software get. What you're doing is promoting segregation. I live in a 3rd world country, hence I do not deserve to obtain the knowledge you have laid out on a silver pladder because there are no means or resources for me to buy the media you're selling. Basically, I need to sit there in my stone age, wait for my country to evolve and in 10 years when the means become available - I can obtain the thing you held all these years. And you call that morally right.

    Morally right and wrong doesn't exist here I'm afraid, with so many injustices, wars and what not around - piracy is the least of mankinds' problems. And I'm really sad to see how many jumped the "piracy is the holocaust of the internet" train. With so much money involved in stopping piracy, much better things could have been made and achieved. Greed is your enemy, it's just sad to see so many educated people fall to it.

  15. #40
    Follow: @AlexDawsonUK silver trophybronze trophy AlexDawson's Avatar
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    Firstly, I'm going to state for the record as a book author AND a software developer who has had both ripped, torrented, keygen'd and whatever else in epic measure all over the web... I don't see the issue of piracy being too much of an issue whatsoever (as much as I'd wish people would pay for everything). I agree with everything molona has so far stated as to reasons why people choose to pirate (or self-justify their actions) and I don't really understand why people think somehow pirates constitute a lost sale... thousands of people pirate photoshop who would have never purchased it due to it's heavy price tag (and would thus have never been able to afford it) - does that mean their a lost customer... no. While I'm not trying to legitimize such actions (even if the price is cheap) I can totally understand why people act like that and it's worth pointing out that people who pirate stuff do on occasion become legitimate customers to which otherwise they wouldn't have on the basis of sampling what was on offer and then buying it out of enjoyment of the product. I think the saying "you cannot lose what you never had" sums up the situation best... piracy happens, don't dwell on it, just focus on two separate models... one for the paying customers (what you usually do) and encouragement for pirates to become legitimate customers as a separate market - however you do that is up to you, just as JJMcClure correctly put forward, while they may be stealing your stuff, it doesn't mean you can't attempt to reach out to them! I've had emails from people who said they downloaded a torrent of my stuff and purchased it as a result.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sagewing View Post
    Theft is theft, as long as we live under the rule of law.
    Yes and if you follow the letter of the law exactly within the United Kingdom, if you've ever ripped a CD to your personal computer and or MP3 player without express written consent from the artist and record label, you are a criminal. There's been legal presidence in the past to state that the ripping of media of any kind for consumption on the media you choose does not register as fair use or personal use... it's copyright infringement plain and straight (under law). So about 78% of the British population (according to national statistics) should be convicted of criminal offences under intellectual property legislation (as if jail's weren't full enough).

    The law in relation to digital media and goods was written by a bunch of bureaucratic morons who don't have the slightest comprehension of technology and are being "paid off" by the RIAA and the MPAA. Just look at the latest thing to make it's way into British law the Digital Economy Act... which states that just the idea that you may be pirating media can result in criminal convictions or your Internet connection being shut down permanently... as the laws are presenting themselves (worldwide) it may well end up that if your suspected of pirating media, you'll end up getting convicted and jailed with a longer sentence than a paedophile or serial killer. Think I'm being over dramatic? The Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) and other human rights groups don't think so.

    PS: There's strong evidence to support the RIAA/MPAA have been instigating (paying organizations) for self-legitimized computer hacking (to "find" evidence of piracy on unsuspecting computer owners machines), DDoS attacks (Revision3 incident), trojan (the Kazaa incidents) and rootkit spreading (Sony's DRM fiasco) as methods to either find or prevent what they deem as piracy. So if their allowed to get away with crimes under law depicted as cyber terrorism, why can't people pirate?

  16. #41
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    Piracy is a business model that has better distribution channels and better pricing than most of the competing business models.

    Also, you can't really compare it to stealing a car, because piracy is all about copying stuff. The creator/owner is still left with the original and in that sense hasn't lost anything, except for the potential profit from licensing fees. But that pirate person probably wouldn't have bought in in the first place, anyway.

    It's adapt or die, I'm afraid. Create good enough content and people will be willing to pay for it.

    Off Topic:


    As a side note, in Finland it is legal to make a copy of an original work for your own personal use if you can do it without "breaking a strong copy protection". For that right we -- like some other countries -- pay another (yay!) tax (For details, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_copying_levy).

  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShayneTilley View Post
    We've be trialling PiracyGuards, to monitor our products on common piracy networks. We got our first report today and nearly 500 take down notices had been issued. I knew that our books were out there, but this shook me up a little.
    Instead, why don't you spend the money on an objective look at why people are pirating SP books, and what effect that actually has on business. I think that information would be far more valuable - although probably very hard to garner due to the nature of studying illegal activities - than paying someone to send takedown notices. I mean, it's like hiring someone to bail water out of a leaky boat instead of trying to fix the leak. Either way I'd be very interested in seeing a writeup on this process and any tangible results.

    Personally I'm in two minds about file sharing. On the one hand, I have a friend that publishes a couple of books, and I would never share those without permission. On the other, I encourage her to do so, and see file sharing as a pretty much victimless crime. I guess that's just basic psychology - some dude named bob dies on the other side of the planet and I don't blink, my dog dies and I shed a tear - but at the end of the day, if I had to choose between hers (and any of my) works being forcibly shared vs the end of sharing, I'd have no hesitation going with the former.

    @dvduval do you have any stats on how many of your take downs turn into paying customers?

  18. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stomme poes View Post
    Well, doesn't the Constitution only mention "property"?
    Property is tangible. You can touch it. You can't touch 0s and 1s representing digital media. Nor can you touch ideas or words or sounds.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stomme poes View Post

    Anyway, I'm mostly against software patents and regional encoding, but copyright I believe is essential: it's basically the foundation of copyleft, which allows people to create and share things like programming languages and software, without having to worry that some Big Evil Corporation will take it, modify it slightly, then prosecute anyone else giving away or using the old software by claiming it's theirs (I remember SCO Linux fight). Without copyright, there is no copyleft. Copyright is also how people can fight big companies from stealing their stuff and getting rich off others' work (remember how Disney and everyone else basically made off like bandits with The Lion Sleeps Tonight song and sold thousands of copies?? Sometimes I find the whole royalty-suing thing bogus, but here it was necessary: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solomon_Linda#Death).
    The thing about software is the rights are asymmetrical. If you buy a piece of software in the USA, you cannot return it for a refund no matter how big a piece of crap it is.

    Music and movies are trivial. You really don't need them and if they were to disappear, society would continue on just fine. But you take software away, society will crumble.

    Patents are another issue. Stuff like software should not be patented for more than 5 years due to its rapidly changing nature. And patents get awarded for the dumbest things, too. Isn't Microsoft threatening to sue Linux users because Linux infringes on 17 lines of code or something?

  19. #44
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    On the library idea:
    Say the library buys a book for 10 bucks. Said book gets checked out 10,000 times over it's lifetime. That 1000/10000 = 1/10 of a center per 'sale'. But, 1000 people like that book, and buy it, that's $10,000 in profit from one sale.

    For pirated books, someone, somewhere got a legal copy to put on the net. Using the same logic as above, that's something like 1/1,000,000 of a cent per download. But, you get something like 10,000 people who like it enough to buy it, so that's $100,000 of sales.

    Plus, there's 5,000 people, who never would have known it existed, who bought it because they heard of it from a illegal downloader.

    I just realized that that's the classic 'illegal downloading is advertising' argument. Does anyone know if some real research has been done on that? Or is it just something pirates made up to rationalize their bad feelings away?

    Check out http://baen.com/library/. The first page explains the rational behind offering many of the books for free.
    --David Reagan
    DavidReagan.net

  20. #45
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    I work as an artist and I dont mind if people rip my work off, I upoad to Flickr etc full size so if anyone wants it fine i just produce loads of work, I cant copyright my process thats in the open domain, my main body of work i protect to the best of my ability (ie never upload a full quality image etc) i have the original files that i can prove are mine so I'll send the boys round if you try.

    John
    Last edited by DaveMaxwell; Apr 26, 2010 at 07:13. Reason: Save the link for your signature, John...

  21. #46
    ✯✯✯ silver trophybronze trophy php_daemon's Avatar
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    Personally I think that the parasite businesses (pirate companies and individuals selling other people's products) is the real issue with piracy, not the individuals who would not buy otherwise anyway.

    I'll just reiterate that piracy can be used to your advantage as an author as hard as it may be in some cases. But the parasite companies are not and are the real threat. So I wouldn't be so quick to say the take down notices are of no use. You should at least eliminite the "competitors".

    If you like analogies, it's the same as running a bakery and having a competitor open up next to you, use your equipment and resources without permission and sell the same line of products at a fraction of cost (they have little to no costs to produce so why not).
    Saul

  22. #47
    SitePoint Zealot My220x's Avatar
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    To be honest shouldn't you be glad people are pirating your stuff? Because it means that your books are so popular that people are actually telling other people about it otherwise nobody would ever know about your books.

  23. #48
    Follow: @AlexDawsonUK silver trophybronze trophy AlexDawson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by My220x View Post
    To be honest shouldn't you be glad people are pirating your stuff? Because it means that your books are so popular that people are actually telling other people about it otherwise nobody would ever know about your books.
    Yes, because no-one uses Amazon or the hundred other legitimate book retailers and no-one ever visits stores that may sell books and no-one visits this website do they.... oh wait! If you're going to make an argument for or against piracy, try to say something that isn't filled with as many holes as the titanic

  24. #49
    SitePoint Wizard siteguru's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by php_daemon View Post
    Personally I think that the parasite businesses (pirate companies and individuals selling other people's products) is the real issue with piracy, not the individuals who would not buy otherwise anyway.
    I agree 100%. But do the RIAA, MPAA et al actively pursue such people? Or do they take the path of least (enforcement) resistance and target individuals?
    Ian Anderson
    www.siteguru.co.uk

  25. #50
    Follow: @AlexDawsonUK silver trophybronze trophy AlexDawson's Avatar
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    It's a case of guilty until proven innocent, and anyone who gets caught in the crossfire will probably get burned


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