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  1. #1
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    Angry You are annoying me

    The other day I had to start using Opera's content blocker for the first time at SitePoint.com, to get rid of the annoying advertisement at the top of the screen.

    Today was another first: I had to create a user style sheet to get rid of another friggin' advertisement that littered the top of the page.

    I don't want to have to disable JavaScript entirely for this site, since there are many useful features here that only work with JS enabled. But if you keep shoving advertisements in my face all the time, then I guess I'll have to. It's either that or leave.

    If I want something I'll buy it. Please stop insulting me by trying to trick me into purchasing something I neither want nor need. It won't work.
    Birnam wood is come to Dunsinane

  2. #2
    It's all Geek to me silver trophybronze trophy
    ralph.m's Avatar
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    You only have to click Close once to get rid of it for ever (at least in my browser—FF).

    I guess that could be considered one time too many, though.

    EDIT: don't leave!

  3. #3
    SitePoint Wizard Stomme poes's Avatar
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    You only have to click Close once to get rid of it for ever (at least in my browser—FF).
    Not on my husband's browser (I don't get them at all; really I don't find the JS on the forums spectacular enough to turn JS back on here), but that could be because... gasp! He blocks cookies! So every visit gets a ninja popping up. However, I'm sure most people have cookies on, so cookie-based ads for some of them (the ninja one) would prolly be better. ShowOnce.

    Me, I don't get any of that, and prefer not to see people's user pages with 90% of the information hidden, nor do I want a little dropdown when I click on a user's name (I'm clicking there to get to their user page), nor does the JS quick edit do anything for me (I'd rather always have all my edit options rather than have them removed from me).

    I can't think of anything else JS does here that I've noticed, and none of it gives me any benefit, so I'm cool with it totally off here.

  4. #4
    SitePoint Author silver trophybronze trophy

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    Quote Originally Posted by ralph.m View Post
    You only have to click Close once to get rid of it for ever (at least in my browser—FF).
    Yes (if you accept cookies left, right and centre). That's why I put up with the ugly, annoying 'catfish' rubbish at the bottom of the viewport.

    But if there's a new bl**dy ad every bl**dy day that you have to bl**dy click 'just once', then it isn't 'just once' any more, is it?

    And if you use one computer at home and one at work, then it'll be twice the number of clicks.

    Marketing people are the enemies of humanity!
    Birnam wood is come to Dunsinane

  5. #5
    SitePoint Wizard Stomme poes's Avatar
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    ^because they haz no soulz.

  6. #6
    SQL Consultant gold trophysilver trophybronze trophy
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    content blockers? we don't got no content blockers... we don't need no content blockers... i don't have to use any stinkin content blockers!!!

    rudy.ca | @rudydotca
    Buy my SitePoint book: Simply SQL
    "giving out my real stuffs"

  7. #7
    SitePoint Author silver trophybronze trophy

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    I know, Rudy. You're using Internet Explorer, aren't you? It doesn't have features like that.
    Birnam wood is come to Dunsinane

  8. #8
    SQL Consultant gold trophysilver trophybronze trophy
    r937's Avatar
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    yes, using IE8 (and proud of it) which does have a pop-up blocker and a download blocker

    but ads? who cares? i don't even see ads!!!

    it's a human brain plugin and has nothing to do with the browser(s) you might be using

    rudy.ca | @rudydotca
    Buy my SitePoint book: Simply SQL
    "giving out my real stuffs"

  9. #9
    SitePoint Author silver trophybronze trophy

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    Quote Originally Posted by r937 View Post
    but ads? who cares? i don't even see ads!!!
    When they're garish like those they filter through my perception filter and annoy me. And they steal valuable screen real estate.
    Birnam wood is come to Dunsinane

  10. #10
    Error 404: Life not found silver trophybronze trophy
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    Better not drive down the street then in case you accidently look at a billboard, or buy any magazines in case they have pullouts or inserts or watch TV in case there are adverts in between and every 5 minutes during the programmes or listen to the radio in case there are Ads or blah blah blah

    In my view SP don't monetise this site enough, I've even left the Ad at the top because I think it adds a welcome splash of colour to the page. However, if they don't want to lose important members such as yourself, they could at least look at ways of making sure Ads don't show to people who've selected never to see them. I'm quite sure they have the capability to do that.
    It's 530 people, but do you really get it?
    ImgWebDesign - Web design in Buxton, High Peak, Derbyshire UK.

  11. #11
    Is Still Alive silver trophybronze trophy RetroNetro's Avatar
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    I too had a user style sheet to hide that last ad at the top that kept sliding down every time I would load the site. Have not gotten to the new one yet though.

    Edit: Done!

  12. #12
    SitePoint Author silver trophybronze trophy

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    Quote Originally Posted by JJMcClure View Post
    Better not drive down the street then in case you accidently look at a billboard,
    I keep my eyes on the road and the traffic when I drive. Besides, we don't have quite as obtrusive billboards here as you may perhaps have where you live.

    Quote Originally Posted by JJMcClure View Post
    or buy any magazines in case they have pullouts or inserts
    I don't.

    Quote Originally Posted by JJMcClure View Post
    or watch TV in case there are adverts in between and every 5 minutes during the programmes
    I don't

    Quote Originally Posted by JJMcClure View Post
    or listen to the radio in case there are Ads or blah blah blah
    I don't.

    I really, really detest all forms of advertising. But the fact that there's already way too much of it isn't an excuse for a – hitherto – moderate and considerate site like SitePoint to add even more.

    Quote Originally Posted by JJMcClure View Post
    In my view SP don't monetise this site enough, I've even left the Ad at the top because I think it adds a welcome splash of colour to the page.
    Different strokes for different folks. I have no problems with that. SitePoint could have a user option about accepting advertisements, so that those who enjoy it can receive it and we who don't can be excused. (It's not like we're likely to fall for the ads and actually buy something anyway.)

    I hope SitePoint don't intend to escalate this even more, because I'd really hate to have to leave this place. But I won't stick around if I have to edit my user style sheet or content blocker every f***ing day.
    Birnam wood is come to Dunsinane

  13. #13
    Error 404: Life not found silver trophybronze trophy
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    Quote Originally Posted by AutisticCuckoo View Post
    I really, really detest all forms of advertising. But the fact that there's already way too much of it isn't an excuse for a – hitherto – moderate and considerate site like SitePoint to add even more..
    The point that I was making is that our world is suffused with advertising and if you're going to have a probelm with SP making some money from the forum that they've developed by adding a few Ads, then really you should have a problem with many other day to day advertising methods too. Clearly you do though. Can you not just ignore them, they're not even aimed at you are they.

    Quote Originally Posted by AutisticCuckoo View Post
    SitePoint could have a user option about accepting advertisements, so that those who enjoy it can receive it and we who don't can be excused. (It's not like we're likely to fall for the ads and actually buy something anyway.)
    Yes, I suggested exactly that in my first post.

    However, if nothing changes and if you dislike it that much and are prepared to leave over it, then who am I to criticise that position having recently been a victim of my own principles. Sometimes you have to make sacrifices to make a point.
    It's 530 people, but do you really get it?
    ImgWebDesign - Web design in Buxton, High Peak, Derbyshire UK.

  14. #14
    Just Blow It bronze trophy
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    Tommy - I've pushed this up the line, so hopefully someone official will respond in here soon.
    Dave Maxwell - Manage Your Site Team Leader
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  15. #15
    Galactic Overlord gold trophysilver trophybronze trophy
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    Thanks for the feedback Tommy - we certainly don't want to be annoying people. It's Easter here now so there are no marketing people around until Tuesday but I'll make sure someone replies to your thread asap.

  16. #16
    SitePoint Author silver trophybronze trophy

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    Quote Originally Posted by JJMcClure View Post
    The point that I was making is that our world is suffused with advertising and if you're going to have a probelm with SP making some money from the forum that they've developed by adding a few Ads, then really you should have a problem with many other day to day advertising methods too. Clearly you do though. Can you not just ignore them, they're not even aimed at you are they.
    What annoys me is that they are changing their behaviour. If the forum had been as ad-infested when I first discovered it, I wouldn't have stayed. But it looked clean, and stayed that way for years. Then, all of a sudden, the allegorical shop clerks are clinging to my trouser legs.

    SitePoint makes money in other ways, e.g., selling quality books and providing paid web-based services like 99designs, etc. I don't begrudge them their revenue in any way. But if they're going to riddle the forums with obtrusive ads that require an effort to block, they're going too far for my taste.

    @Dave, Sarah: Thank you!
    Birnam wood is come to Dunsinane

  17. #17
    Error 404: Life not found silver trophybronze trophy
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    Quote Originally Posted by AutisticCuckoo View Post

    I really, really detest all forms of advertising.
    Just out of curiosity, did you not advertise your book 'The Ultimate CSS Reference'?

    (Which I have a copy of and I love the fact that I can talk directly to one of the authors here on SP)
    It's 530 people, but do you really get it?
    ImgWebDesign - Web design in Buxton, High Peak, Derbyshire UK.

  18. #18
    SitePoint Wizard Stomme poes's Avatar
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    Do the authors even have to advertise their books? SitePoint is doing it for them already (many publishers do).

  19. #19
    SitePoint Wizard ShayneTilley's Avatar
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    Hey Tommy and everyone else, I thought I'd jump in on this conversation. The banner at the top is something we've played around with a couple of times. I'm not going to get into a should we shouldn't we debate about it or an advertisement debate in general. But what I'd rather do is chat about how we can perhaps adjust the way we do the promo bar so that those really against it can do so with little hassle.

    I'm not sure about the technical possibilities without leveraging cookies, but I'm sure there is something we can come up with. I'll chat with the Dev guys on Tuesday if they have any ideas and I'll share the outcome.

    BTW: Tommy having always listened to every single bit of feedback you've given me over the years, it was pretty hard to swallow the reference to me as the enemy of humanity.
    Shayne Tilley

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  20. #20
    Follow: @AlexDawsonUK silver trophybronze trophy AlexDawson's Avatar
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    I don't mean to sound "out of sorts" here (or divert into the debate you wanted to avoid Shayne - so sorry about this) but it was stated that the forums were separate from SitePoint's attempts to increase their business profitability which is rather confusing to me when we do happen to get those pop-up's (not to mention those big flashing banners at the base of every post now). I don't blame SitePoint for wanting to promote their stuff, but I have to agree with Tommy that it feels pretty obtrusive - especially when it requires cookies to make the things go away (even though that doesn't always work for me in chrome!). After all, I've always been one to promote books - Including SitePoint's when a visitor asks for recommendations to get them started in web design (which has probably converted into sales a few times). The recent adverts tend to feel like a "blind swipe" at everyone because it's quite hard to ignore in it's current incarnation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stomme poes View Post
    Do the authors even have to advertise their books? SitePoint is doing it for them already (many publishers do).
    I promote my book (outside of the forum) even though my publisher (FriendsOfED / APress) also helps in that respect, I think it's a case of the more potential interest you can drum up the better. So I expect Tommy like most other published authors probably do at least drop hints at their books release

    Quote Originally Posted by ShayneTilley View Post
    BTW: Tommy having always listened to every single bit of feedback you've given me over the years, it was pretty hard to swallow the reference to me as the enemy of humanity.
    I don't think he meant it personally Shayne, but I have to agree with Tommy that marketing people get a little too over enthusiastic with how people are notified to advertisements (and such), there's a fine line between subtle acceptable marketing (that's noticeable and not intrusive) and little animated popup's which reappear even if you hit the close button - even I sometimes want to clunk a few marketing people with the user-experience stick.

  21. #21
    It's all Geek to me silver trophybronze trophy
    ralph.m's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AutisticCuckoo View Post
    Marketing people are the enemies of humanity!
    Despite our 'modern' lifestyle, the law of the jungle still applies: survival of the fittest, the most noticed, the most 'in your face'. Like you, I loathe advertising, and it pours at you from every nook these days. I was just reading today about a US Sitcom that had an episode this week based around the new iPad—paid for by Apple, of course.

    People who live by selling will always be under pressure to tell you about their products. I can understand SP wanting us to know about their new books. But those ads do slow page loads, and on my screen, the content I am looking for usually starts beneath the fold, following the ad banners.

  22. #22
    SitePoint Evangelist
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    One of my only 'issues' with sitepoint, and other sites in general that I frequent. And I think it's more from a marketing standpoint....

    I have purchased MANY sitepoint books over the years. Even though I have purchased book 'X' in the past, sometimes I still get advertisements/pop-ups for that same book...? I don't mind the advertisements so much, but the fact that I'm being advertised a product that I already own seems like a waste of a good pop-up/banner (lol).

    Maybe there would be a way to link a customers purchase record to their forum profile so they are not constantly seeing ads to products they already own.

    For instance, I purchased the jQuery ninja book right after it came out. I have now been looking at the jQuery ninjas for months (it seems) all over sitepoint. I feel it just kinda numbs your visitors to the ads. Why not show me a product I don't already own? Wouldn't that be a better approach?

    Anyways, just my $.02

  23. #23
    Error 404: Life not found silver trophybronze trophy
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    I got given a hard time recently after asking how to implement an exit pop-up so I'm very interested to see how this turns out. In my view there's a compromise between shoving Ads down people's throats and leaving money on the table by not using marketing techiniques to drive sales.
    It's 530 people, but do you really get it?
    ImgWebDesign - Web design in Buxton, High Peak, Derbyshire UK.

  24. #24
    SitePoint Co-founder Matt Mickiewicz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JJMcClure View Post
    I got given a hard time recently after asking how to implement an exit pop-up so I'm very interested to see how this turns out. In my view there's a compromise between shoving Ads down people's throats and leaving money on the table by not using marketing techiniques to drive sales.
    We did the easy thing, by implement the "X" button and allowing people to remove that floating bar if they have cookies enabled. I wish magazines, TV or radio had an "X" button to remove annoying ads

    Doing it without cookies is a lot more complicated, but as Shayne said, we'll look into it.
    Matt Mickiewicz - Co-Founder
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  25. #25
    SitePoint Author silver trophybronze trophy

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    Quote Originally Posted by JJMcClure View Post
    Just out of curiosity, did you not advertise your book 'The Ultimate CSS Reference'?
    That's what publishers are for. Well, I do have links in my forum signature, so I suppose I'm guilty of some advertising myself.

    Quote Originally Posted by ShayneTilley View Post
    I'm not sure about the technical possibilities without leveraging cookies, but I'm sure there is something we can come up with.
    That would probably be more trouble than it's worth. What do you think of the idea of a user setting, as mentioned above? I don't mind if it's on by default (and for non-logged in users). As long as I could uncheck one checkbox and stop receiving all advertisements (since they only frustrate me and I would never consider buying from those companies).

    What's most annoying (to me) is having to make efforts, no matter how small, at increasingly frequent intervals just to avoid the visual rubbish. A 'don't show this again' link is fine the first time. After the umpteenth time it begins to feel rather pointless. I'd want a 'don't show this or anything like it ever again' link.

    Now that I've had to create a user style sheet for SitePoint I've added some more rules to hide ads that I've put up with before now. Since I already have the user.css. So the net effect of SitePoint's increased advertisments has been that I see less ads.

    Quote Originally Posted by ShayneTilley View Post
    BTW: Tommy having always listened to every single bit of feedback you've given me over the years, it was pretty hard to swallow the reference to me as the enemy of humanity.
    That may have been a bit over the top, and I apologise. I do maintain, though, that marketing people work contrary to users' best interest. I'm constantly at a collision course with the marketing people at the office (we're a government agency, for Pete's sake!) when they want to put obtrusive, garish banners on the site I'm responsible for.

    I read your book, Shayne, and there was some advice in it that almost made me want to slap you. I do realise that I'm in a small minority, though, so don't take it personally. I still have tremendous respect for you as a person and for your professional skills.
    Birnam wood is come to Dunsinane


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