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  1. #126
    blonde.... Sarah's Avatar
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    Originally posted by mmj


    There's been developments!
    well I am going ask ... AND?????

    Also I would you consider buying a car that you hadn't driven and compared to other cars? thats the same with dating you are just perfecting your perfect partners by trying people on for size to see how they fit

    I also find that men can be a bit like buses, none for ages and then 2 come along at the same time seriously though I am happy being single and find people that NEED to depend on another very hard to understand - but then we are all different.

    and I suppose anam that I too have lots of male friends and I too found out that they all secretly fancied me but never let on, back then it was hard to take in but now I look to take it as a compliment and try not to 'think' about it all too much and accept there friendship as face value and nothing more.

    Sarah
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  2. #127
    Back in Action Winged Spider's Avatar
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    Perhaps this is a little off-topic (and I know it's DEFINATELY anti pop-culture). But personally I feel convinced that dating before I'm ready to be married is foolishness. I mean really, if I'm looking out for my future girl in the best way possible, why would I want to date around before I can even make a promise of anything concrete? Unnecessary dating just causes unnecessary emotional baggage. I've seen it with plenty of my friends and I'll just give it a swell, "No thanks." When I'm out of school and can provide for a family, then I'll go looking for one.
    You're not the only one! It's pretty insane how some people think they need a girlfriend/boyfriend to be complete (just can't go without one).
    Woah, I never thought things were that bad. Unnescessary baggage? What?

    Although I can relate to your position, but it's been a while since I've had any kind of girl anxiety.

    That's just a way of giving up before the fight begins. I think all of you obviously younger Sitepointers need to get out more.

    I can't provide for a family, I can barely provide for myself now. That hasn't stopped the constant influx of women into my life. They'll break your heart to bits sometimes, and they'll suck you into the friend zone so fast it's not even funny. But my memories are filled with amazing moments that could of only happened if I had a person I was intimate with was present.

    You don't need a nice car, or a huge wallet. Confidence and Being yourself get's you a lot farther than any pimp wheels or great body.

    Don't try and befriend girls first. Just ask them out to a one on one date. If they say no move on, if they say yes move in! :-)


  3. #128
    SitePoint Zealot Lauren's Avatar
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    Originally posted by M. Johansson
    And Lauren - there is no perfect person. Not even here in Europe. I have concluded after extensive research that humans are, by definition, imperfect. I recommend finding good people instead.
    LOL, I should have explain myself better . If I could do absolutely anything, I would have been a dog trainer (I just don't have the skill for it, and a bad experience left me doubting myself).
    My vacation: going to a canine immunology seminar.
    The last thing I baked: dog treats.
    My newest shirt: has a German Shepherd on the front.
    I passed up a chance to go to the mountains with friends so that I could go home and spend time with my dog.
    I have yet to find a guy that has much beyond a passing interest in other species. I haven't looked too hard, but they are extremely rare, in part because of America's consumeristic approach to companion animals. In Europe, the approach is much different. There's a schutzhund (dog training) club in every town (judging by the SV's site which doesn't take into account DVG and different breed clubs).

    If I wanted to find someone that I could really relate to, I'd probably have to stop by the vet school or schools for dog trainers and go from there . I don't really have any intention of doing that before I myself go to graduate school, since I don't want to have anything holding me back (I'll have a hard enough time finding a grad school as it is, without having to worry about where someone else's job might be ).

    I have friends (male and female), but I don't really have any desire to have a relationship beyond friendship at this point.
    Lauren and Auster



    The dog is a reflection of his master. - Max v. Stephanitz

  4. #129
    SitePoint Wizard Goof's Avatar
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    Originally posted by M. Johansson
    While I understand your view, I have no idea how people can maintain (or even feel ready for) a functional an happy marriage without extensive experience of relationships. Almost nothing I've ever done in my life worked out really well the first time I tried it, and I don't understand why relationships should be any different (especially considering my first one was an absolute disaster).
    A lot of people seem to have this view - it seems to kinda be the default today I think. Here's the thing: as you "perfect" or "get better" or whatever at relationships, you're having deep emotional experiences with different people. I don't want that. I want all of my affections to be targeted towards my future wife. I'm hardly saying that they're all going to be good - we're going to fight and we're going to appologize. And in the fights and appologies our relationship will grow. Why should I waste those experiences (and then that growth) on someone whom I'm only going to be with a few months or years? I'd rather just save it. Love is like a pearl - I just don't want to cut it out too early and risk ruining it.

    Of course this means I might be alone the rest of my life, and that's fine with me. Personally, if God thinks that being alone is best for me, then I'll take it with gratefulness. Otherwise I'll wait for Him to select a wife for me. However, seeing that most of you probably don't share in this faith, I can see why you'd be concerned about trying to "find" a partner. I don't have that weight.

    Just my 2c.
    Goof
    Nathan Rutman
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  5. #130
    SitePoint Wizard Goof's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Winged Spider
    Woah, I never thought things were that bad. Unnescessary baggage? What?

    Although I can relate to your position, but it's been a while since I've had any kind of girl anxiety.

    That's just a way of giving up before the fight begins. I think all of you obviously younger Sitepointers need to get out more.
    Haha...I'm a junior in college and going to be 21 in about 3 weeks. This isn't just a way I want to live in the future - it's the way I'm currently living. When I get out of school I'll feel free to pursue a wife.

    Concerning emotional baggage, it's there, or else I'm guessing that your relationships haven't been that deep. I'm not talking about girl anxiety, I'm talking about having feelings about the relationship. Deep relationships (at least from what I've seen) end with both parties having HUGE feelings (whether good or bad) towards the other person - something more than friendship creates (like the memories that you speak of in the next section).

    Originally posted by Winged Spider
    I can't provide for a family, I can barely provide for myself now. That hasn't stopped the constant influx of women into my life. They'll break your heart to bits sometimes, and they'll suck you into the friend zone so fast it's not even funny. But my memories are filled with amazing moments that could of only happened if I had a person I was intimate with was present.
    Yeah, now imagine all of those memories were about a single person - wouldn't that be cool?

    Originally posted by Winged Spider
    Don't try and befriend girls first. Just ask them out to a one on one date. If they say no move on, if they say yes move in! :-)
    That's the most horrible advice I've heard yet (of course I've heard it before - unfortunately). Is it any wonder so many marriages end in divorce?

    *sigh*
    Goof
    Nathan Rutman
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  6. #131
    One website at a time mmj's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Sarah


    well I am going ask ... AND?????
    This is having a negative effect on my health. My chest hurts. More later.
    [mmj] My magic jigsaw
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  7. #132
    Wanna-be Apple nut silver trophy M. Johansson's Avatar
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    That's the most horrible advice I've heard yet (of course I've heard it before - unfortunately)
    In your opinion. Your own advice is associated with the risk of being alone all your life, and the risk of the first marriage breaking down horribly because of limited experience with relationships. You might be perfectly willing to take those risks, but many (if not most) people are not. Please try to be a little more open-minded, or at least not call peoples advice "horrible" just because it differs from your views.

    Is it any wonder so many marriages end in divorce?
    Some marriages break down because they are based on shallow relationships, yes, just like some marriages break down because people have limited experience of relationship dynamics and the emotions involved. And some just break down because you find out you weren't compatible. But we don't have any statistics here on it, so we shouldn't argue it too seriously.

    A lot of people seem to have this view - it seems to kinda be the default today I think.
    It's hardly default. The views on marriage are incredibly diverse on a global level.

    Here's the thing: as you "perfect" or "get better" or whatever at relationships, you're having deep emotional experiences with different people. I don't want that. I want all of my affections to be targeted towards my future wife.
    I want that too. I think most people would want it to work out the first time, and then everything would be nice and dandy for the rest of your life.

    I'm hardly saying that they're all going to be good - we're going to fight and we're going to appologize. And in the fights and appologies our relationship will grow. Why should I waste those experiences (and then that growth) on someone whom I'm only going to be with a few months or years? I'd rather just save it. Love is like a pearl - I just don't want to cut it out too early and risk ruining it.
    Maybe you will apologize, make up, and your relationship may grow. But on the other hand, it might tear up your relationship so bad that it cannot be mended. I know for a fact that this happens to quite a bit of marriages. I know my first relationship went that way. The feelings involved in any relationship can be overwhelming, and are VERY (and I mean VERY) confusing the first, second and third time).
    Mattias Johansson
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  8. #133
    SitePoint Wizard Goof's Avatar
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    M. Johansson,

    1) Yes, it is my opinion - hence the "most horrible advice I've ever heard". I realize that it's obviously not the most horrible advice you've ever heard. Is "most horrible" even proper english?

    2) The vast majority of marriages that I've seen break down are simply because one of the members is looking out for "number 1". I don't see this mentality discouraged in a heavy dating atmosphere, but rather encouraged.

    3) I don't know about Sweden and the rest of the world, but your views are extremely popular here in the States. We have people that start dating at 12 years of age and younger. That's just rediculous.

    4) I seriously doubt many people really WANT all of their affections to be towards one person. Hardly anyone's willing to take the sacrifices to make it that way.

    5) Once again, in my (very limited) knowledge, no relationship that I've seen is beyond mendable. It's just thought to be that way when "I'm not happy anymore" or "I can't take this anymore". This is the same mentality as in #2. When I get married I'm taking an oath to my wife's happiness, not my own happiness. I realize that and (if I get married) will be prepared to do that. I think that if more men found their delight in their wife's happiness, divorce would become the exception again instead of a 50/50 chance.

    Of course, just my thoughts...
    Goof
    Nathan Rutman
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  9. #134
    SitePoint Zealot Lauren's Avatar
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    Well, my parents dated in high school, and were married about a year after. Not a lot of time to play the field and get experience, but they are still together.

    If both people have the same mentality as Goof, then it would work out wonderfully! They would both be having those same first feelings at the same time, those first experiences with each other, and they'd never be wishing they had someone else because of their memories of other people.

    a relationship is only not mendable if someone thinks it is not mendable.

    As fas as needing relationship experience, I have plenty of that . The best way to learn about love is to learn with unconditional love, then move on to the less than perfect human stuff. This means that you either believe in God or get a dog. I have both . I've made some horrible choices and my dog has suffered because of them, but she still loves me. I make sacrifices to care for her, but I still feel guilty sometimes because I do selfish things as well (I slept in late when I was home for vacation, even though she loves to jog). It just doesn't get any better than that.
    Lauren and Auster



    The dog is a reflection of his master. - Max v. Stephanitz

  10. #135
    Wanna-be Apple nut silver trophy M. Johansson's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Goof
    M. Johansson,

    1) Yes, it is my opinion - hence the "most horrible advice I've ever heard". I realize that it's obviously not the most horrible advice you've ever heard. Is "most horrible" even proper english?
    Heh, I wouldn't know - not native english speaker.

    2) The vast majority of marriages that I've seen break down are simply because one of the members is looking out for "number 1". I don't see this mentality discouraged in a heavy dating atmosphere, but rather encouraged.
    Like I said, we don't have any stats, so we can't really debate it, but you are right - a heavy dating atmoshpere encourages finding the best mate possible, yes. But isn't that just a modern version of natural selection?

    3) I don't know about Sweden and the rest of the world, but your views are extremely popular here in the States. We have people that start dating at 12 years of age and younger. That's just rediculous.
    They are popular here too - even more, I think. But the word is a helluva lot larger than the U.S. and sweden. Other nations have extemely differing views on this that does not necessarily correlate with ours. And is having a boy/girlfriend at 12 years of age (as long as you are dating someone of the same age) unhealthy? Any studies at all that support that?

    4) I seriously doubt many people really WANT all of their affections to be towards one person. Hardly anyone's willing to take the sacrifices to make it that way.

    5) Once again, in my (very limited) knowledge, no relationship that I've seen is beyond mendable. It's just thought to be that way when "I'm not happy anymore" or "I can't take this anymore". This is the same mentality as in #2. When I get married I'm taking an oath to my wife's happiness, not my own happiness. I realize that and (if I get married) will be prepared to do that. I think that if more men found their delight in their wife's happiness, divorce would become the exception again instead of a 50/50 chance.
    "Sacrifices"... "Oath"... "found their delight in their wife's happiness".. "Not my own happiness"... You have an entirely different view on love than I have - one filled with obligation. I would like my woman to stay with me because she enjoys it, not because she promised to or because she wants to make me happy or any other reason.

    That is where our opinions differ, and I don't think there is much point in debating it further.
    Mattias Johansson
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  11. #136
    Wanna-be Apple nut silver trophy M. Johansson's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Lauren
    Well, my parents dated in high school, and were married about a year after. Not a lot of time to play the field and get experience, but they are still together.

    If both people have the same mentality as Goof, then it would work out wonderfully! They would both be having those same first feelings at the same time, those first experiences with each other, and they'd never be wishing they had someone else because of their memories of other people.

    a relationship is only not mendable if someone thinks it is not mendable.
    If nobody cared about their own happiness, and only the other person, then everything would be fine and dandy, yes. But then again, life is not perfect. People have other desires, and we still have to use font tags.

    As fas as needing relationship experience, I have plenty of that . The best way to learn about love is to learn with unconditional love, then move on to the less than perfect human stuff. This means that you either believe in God or get a dog. I have both . I've made some horrible choices and my dog has suffered because of them, but she still loves me. I make sacrifices to care for her, but I still feel guilty sometimes because I do selfish things as well (I slept in late when I was home for vacation, even though she loves to jog). It just doesn't get any better than that.
    Dogs != Women
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  12. #137
    SitePoint Addict jamesbond's Avatar
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    Originally posted by M. Johansson


    While I understand your view, I have no idea how people can maintain (or even feel ready for) a functional an happy marriage without extensive experience of relationships. Almost nothing I've ever done in my life worked out really well the first time I tried it, and I don't understand why relationships should be any different (especially considering my first one was an absolute disaster).
    I understand your point of view somewhat, but still,
    are you sure you're not confusing 'extensive experience of relationships' with 'maturity and life experience' ?

    It seems that you are almost implying that:
    The more relationships one has been in, the higher the chances on being in a good and lasting relationship.
    I really doubt it ..almost a paradox actually.

    I understand it can go wrong once or twice or even the third time. But when one reaches the count of 5 or 10 relationships it's clear to me who has problems being in a relationship.

    All this aside from the moral aspects.

    That's my point of view

  13. #138
    Your Lord and Master, Foamy gold trophy Hierophant's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Goof

    5) Once again, in my (very limited) knowledge, no relationship that I've seen is beyond mendable. It's just thought to be that way when "I'm not happy anymore" or "I can't take this anymore". This is the same mentality as in #2. When I get married I'm taking an oath to my wife's happiness, not my own happiness. I realize that and (if I get married) will be prepared to do that. I think that if more men found their delight in their wife's happiness, divorce would become the exception again instead of a 50/50 chance.
    All very noble but not very realistic. I can understand you wanting to start dating at a later time in life. However, your statement above is complete rhetoric. I used to feel the same way when I was married to my first wife. Worked 90-100 hours a week to give her the money and things she wanted. Walked away with a computer and a bookcase because she always wanted more and more. Not a very happy situation which ended in divorce. That led to deep feelings. I don't usually use the word "hate" when describing someone but that is how I feel about my ex-wife. If I didn't have to deal with her because we had two kids together, I wouldn't even acknowledge here existance if I passed her by on the street. Now you might be thinking that is because the divorce was recent but it was five years ago.

    The only reason divorce was not as popular in the early nineteen hundreds and before, was not because people were happy and loved each other but because it was:
    1) Difficult to obtain one because you had to had cause i.e. they were a crook, cheated on you or broke some law. (notice spousal abuse isn't in that list)
    2) It was illegal in many areas.

    When both of these things changed, divorces increased but you will also see that spousal killings and home accidents resulting in the death of one spouse decreased.
    Wayne Luke
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  14. #139
    Wanna-be Apple nut silver trophy M. Johansson's Avatar
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    Originally posted by jamesbond
    I understand your point of view somewhat, but still,
    are you sure you're not confusing 'extensive experience of relationships' with 'maturity and life experience' ?
    You are probably right that maturity and life experience are important for a marriage, but couldn't you be very mature and experienced, yet be very bad at relationships?

    It seems that you are almost implying that:
    The more relationships one has been in, the higher the chances on being in a good and lasting relationship.
    I really doubt it ..almost a paradox actually.

    I understand it can go wrong once or twice or even the third time. But when one reaches the count of 5 or 10 relationships it's clear to me who has problems being in a relationship.

    I'm sorry if I implied it - I didn't mean that. I just think that it seems likely that a person that has experienced a few, decently long and serious relationships, does have a bigger chance of maintaining a happy marriage. I doubt all that experience is worthless.
    Mattias Johansson
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  15. #140
    blonde.... Sarah's Avatar
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    its each to their own really..

    personally I want to know what is going on in mmj's life hopefully it will be more interesting reading
    Regular user

  16. #141
    SitePoint Addict jamesbond's Avatar
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    Originally posted by M. Johansson

    You are probably right that maturity and life experience are important for a marriage, but couldn't you be very mature and experienced, yet be very bad at relationships?
    True, but that's probably the way it always will be then Some people function better when they are not in a relationship, that's just how they are.

    Originally posted by M. Johansson
    I'm sorry if I implied it - I didn't mean that. I just think that it seems likely that a person that has experienced a few, decently long and serious relationships, does have a bigger chance of maintaining a happy marriage. I doubt all that experience is worthless.
    I understand what you mean, I think it more depends on how easy one gets involved in a (new) relationship.

    If you thoughtfully think things over and discuss things, finding out what the other person wants in life and so on, before getting in a serious relationship then the chances of it failing will be much lower than when your motivation is that you hate being alone or the fact that you will have a 'hot' girlfriend to make your friends jealous.

    But ofcourse there is no golden rule, that would be too easy

  17. #142
    SitePoint Zealot Lauren's Avatar
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    Originally posted by M. Johansson
    Dogs != Women
    Dogs == Love + Devotion + Meaningful Relationship - Baggage - Expensive Gifts
    Lauren and Auster



    The dog is a reflection of his master. - Max v. Stephanitz

  18. #143
    Prolific Blogger silver trophy Technosailor's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Lauren


    Dogs == Love + Devotion + Meaningful Relationship - Baggage - Expensive Gifts
    yeah!
    Aaron Brazell
    Technosailor



  19. #144
    Your Lord and Master, Foamy gold trophy Hierophant's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Lauren


    Dogs == Love + Devotion + Meaningful Relationship - Baggage - Expensive Gifts
    Guess you don't have the dogs we have...

    Both are rescues. The 85 pound puppy requires extra love and attention to get over being beaten by his previous owner.

    The 110 pound momma dog requires constant attention because she was kicked by a horse in her hip.

    Both of them get premium food ($150.00/month), Frosty Paws Ice Cream ($18.00/Month), Gourmet Cookies ($30.00/month), Large Bones ($50.00/Month). This doesn't include their dishes, custom leashes and collars and many other toys and treats we purchase for them.
    Wayne Luke
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  20. #145
    SitePoint Zealot Lauren's Avatar
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    Originally posted by W. Luke
    Guess you don't have the dogs we have...
    Actually, I think I might have it worse. Auster (70lbs) can only have canned I/D (available only at vet's offices) or home cooked food. I'm trying to find a kibble that she can have 1/2 of the time to make it easier. She's also been to the vet twice in the last two weeks because of bacterial infections. This is all because she bloated and the vet didn't properly treat her, but didn't have any problem charging us! Because of Auster's sensitive tummy I have to make home made dog treats (she's sensitive to gluten) as well.

    Even with all of that, she's worth it. She wouldn't die even when the vet thought she would because she wanted to live to see us again. She might have baggage, but she hasn't caused me any like most humans would (which is what I was trying to say, but I obviously ruined it for brevity's sake). She's also not as expensive as another human.

    Until I find a human that has undying devotion and unconditional love, I'll stick with dogs. I have yet to meet a human that I get misty eyed just thinking about how wonderfully incredible they are
    Lauren and Auster



    The dog is a reflection of his master. - Max v. Stephanitz

  21. #146
    One website at a time mmj's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Sarah
    its each to their own really..

    personally I want to know what is going on in mmj's life hopefully it will be more interesting reading
    Wouldn't you like to know.

    Anyway, when it comes to girls, I'm still grappling with the basics. I failed "relationship longer than 2 months 101" years ago and haven't taken the test again since until recently. I've been doing some research recently, but I've been coming up against a number of brick walls.

    Actually I'd love to find out what exactly is happening. Since you showed interest in my life, I met a really nice girl recently and had a good time but haven't been able to contact her again. I'd like to think it's because she doesn't know what she's missing. Yet.

    There. That's more than I usually say about myself My life's a work in progress and I get kinda edgy about people asking to see the unfinished work.
    Last edited by mmj; Oct 23, 2002 at 23:47.
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  22. #147
    blonde.... Sarah's Avatar
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    Originally posted by mmj
    I failed "relationship longer than 2 months 101"
    Ditto actually I think mine was 3 months.. but hey still young and enjoying myself..

    Well I won't pry any further, its not fair on me to ask if you aren't comfortable answering questions about yourself.. anyway good luck with it and don't dispair I am sure you'll get in contact with her eventually, and if not then she wasn't really worth it.

    Sarah
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  23. #148
    One website at a time mmj's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Sarah
    Well I won't pry any further, its not fair on me to ask if you aren't comfortable answering questions
    No problem. It's not that I'm not comfortable I just don't like to blow my own trumpet, you know, if nobody's interested.

    Originally posted by Sarah

    if not then she wasn't really worth it.

    Sarah
    Oh but she WAS, Sarah, SHE WAS!

    Last edited by mmj; Oct 24, 2002 at 01:54.
    [mmj] My magic jigsaw
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  24. #149
    blonde.... Sarah's Avatar
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    Oh dear... run and hunt her down then
    Regular user

  25. #150
    Chikin Choker Hellbent's Avatar
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    If you can't win them over wear them down
    Straight from the TP! And I don't mean the Trailer Park.


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