SitePoint Sponsor

User Tag List

Results 1 to 16 of 16
  1. #1
    not tyrael anymore.. Manores's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Izmir-Ankara-Istanbul / Turkey
    Posts
    431
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Artistic talent or technical knowledge makes a design good?

    Hi

    I've been working for a web design company for nearly 2 years now and I have never used flash for any of the sites i have designed. I tried to learn Flash and nowadays work on Swish.

    But as I progress in learning flash, i begin to feel that the real challenge i face is not the technical part (mostly because of flashkit community perhaps) but the artistic design part (english is not my native language, sorry for any mistakes). I mean, the problem is not turning a picture 360 degrees 5 times and then fading it out but the problem is thinking to do such a thing. I began to feel like I will never design a good flash site because fo this lack of talent. Do you believe my design talent will be better in time by watching what flashers do on their sites? If so, can you suggest me any good commercial flash sites. Our customers are producers (leather things, shoes, metal parts etc.) and i need to sell them by using flash, because my boss wants that (

    I don't know whether i could expressed my problem..

    Any help would be great..

    Thanks in advance
    Nanaman never dies!
    Once I was Tyrael!

    I wish Wayne also could change my whole life as he did with my nick and made me a rally driver!

  2. #2
    SitePoint Addict ThomasAesir's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Sydney, Australia
    Posts
    214
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Flash is only a tool

    Flash is only a tool but to do something artistic you'll need to go old school and get out a pencil and a sketch pad, or at lest a good 3d graphic program like Truespace.
    Thomas Oeser - Blueprint Software
    Web Scripting Editor v 5.2 One cool Web editing tool.
    3dcomputergraphics.com Coming Soon!

  3. #3
    not tyrael anymore.. Manores's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Izmir-Ankara-Istanbul / Turkey
    Posts
    431
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Hi again..

    I think you misunderstood me. I'm not trying to create an artistic miracle. I just want to create some flash sites which sell products. But creating a flash movie is like producing a cinema film and a great imagination power is required to do such a thing. I ask whether i may develop myself in this area. And if you believe the answer is yes, what can you suggest me to do?

    Thanks
    Nanaman never dies!
    Once I was Tyrael!

    I wish Wayne also could change my whole life as he did with my nick and made me a rally driver!

  4. #4
    SitePoint Zealot flashswami's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Posts
    101
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    3 invaluable things-

    1- Colour theory. You need to have an understanding of how and why to use certain colours. Good links here-

    http://www.dotdragnet.co.uk/forum/to...?TOPIC_ID=2008


    2- Typography. Why certain fonts look good, font placement, font colours etc. Links-

    http://dir.yahoo.com/Arts/Design_Art...gn/Typography/

    3- Experimentation
    FlashSwami //Flash & server side fun
    DotDragNet //General web help
    [>Now available for freelance web work<]

  5. #5
    SitePoint Addict ThomasAesir's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Sydney, Australia
    Posts
    214
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Get some art books

    Get lots of art books, stuff on animation, cg magazines and learn as much as you can about cinematography. This invoves watching lots of movies but this way you should develop an eye for the camera and lighting which will help you in your flash movies.
    Thomas Oeser - Blueprint Software
    Web Scripting Editor v 5.2 One cool Web editing tool.
    3dcomputergraphics.com Coming Soon!

  6. #6
    not tyrael anymore.. Manores's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Izmir-Ankara-Istanbul / Turkey
    Posts
    431
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Hi again

    if you have time can you visit

    http://www.harmanli.com.tr/

    i need to design something of that quality.. if you can visit look how they "position" the models in the intro.. first a text comes (whatever it is and whichever effect is used) then a model appears then anothre text and then another model but this time some flashes appear like they are taking a photo on the model and so on and so on.. My problem is not how I can make them but how can I imagine them.. can i develop myself on that subject i ask?

    by the way, again thanks for the links flashswami

    Nanaman never dies!
    Once I was Tyrael!

    I wish Wayne also could change my whole life as he did with my nick and made me a rally driver!

  7. #7
    SitePoint Addict
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Posts
    302
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Although I think anyone can improve their design skills by learning color theory, typography etc, if you lack the artistic talent there is only so far you can go.

    Tragically I speak from experience, I am at best average in the artistic department and that's on a good day. My design skills have improved from following the tips mentioned by others in this thread, but I simply lack the artistic talent to be able to come up with the stunning visuals that are used in some sites. It's not just the stunning visuals that seperate those without artistic ability from those with it, for example take color, now I may be able to come up with a reasonable looking blue/white website, but give me a difficult color combination like red + green or just grey and I would struggle. Yet someone with talent would make them look great, they simply have an eye for space, form etc.

    So basically there is only so far you can go in design without bucketloads of Artistic talent.
    Last edited by neil100; Jul 3, 2002 at 23:42.

  8. #8
    SitePoint Addict jbradley's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Huntsville, AL
    Posts
    224
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Artistic talent is certainly required. Without it, you just won't succeed in web design. However, technical knowledge is also essential. Without both, things just won't work.

    Jason
    Jason Bradley
    Post your project and receive FREE bids from professionals!
    naSnap Freelance Marketplace

  9. #9
    not tyrael anymore.. Manores's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Izmir-Ankara-Istanbul / Turkey
    Posts
    431
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    jbradley

    Let me ask another thing. Do you believe artistic talent may be developed in time and by training? Or only some "gifted" people have it?

    So what do you think?
    Nanaman never dies!
    Once I was Tyrael!

    I wish Wayne also could change my whole life as he did with my nick and made me a rally driver!

  10. #10
    SitePoint Addict jbradley's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Huntsville, AL
    Posts
    224
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Originally posted by tyrael
    jbradley

    Let me ask another thing. Do you believe artistic talent may be developed in time and by training? Or only some "gifted" people have it?

    So what do you think?
    I certainly think it can be developed over time, with practice and of course through proper training. You can do anything you want, as long as you try hard enough...web design and artistic talent is no different. Some people may be naturally talented in that area, but others can become just as good with training, as long as they love what they're doing and have a strong desire to learn and succeed in it.

    Enough of the life lesson for now.

    Jason
    Jason Bradley
    Post your project and receive FREE bids from professionals!
    naSnap Freelance Marketplace

  11. #11
    SitePoint Addict jbradley's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Huntsville, AL
    Posts
    224
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Something I forgot to mention...

    Perhaps your problem is not that you don't have the talent to do what you want. The problem may stem from a simple lack of creativity. Everyone has designer's block once and a while, and usually those who are new to web design face this a lot more often than seasoned pros. Check out some inspirational sites such as CoolHomepages to get some ideas from other designers. Perhaps this will help to spark your creative drive!

    Hope this helps!

    Jason
    Jason Bradley
    Post your project and receive FREE bids from professionals!
    naSnap Freelance Marketplace

  12. #12
    not tyrael anymore.. Manores's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Izmir-Ankara-Istanbul / Turkey
    Posts
    431
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Thanks for the ideas!!

    I really love sitepoint forums and all the people here
    Nanaman never dies!
    Once I was Tyrael!

    I wish Wayne also could change my whole life as he did with my nick and made me a rally driver!

  13. #13
    gingham dress, army boots... silver trophy redux's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Salford / Manchester / UK
    Posts
    4,838
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    ah, the age old question...is talent something that you can learn, or something that you either have or haven't ?
    well, here's my take: talent is a state of mind (i know, sound crappy new-agey, but bare with me). off the top of my head, i'd say the key factors are:

    a) inspiration
    be open and receptive to ANYTHING that's around you. don't just look at other practitioners in your chosen field (i.e. if you want to do cool flash stuff, DON'T just look at other people's flash sites and try to imitate it...otherwise you're merely copying, not creating...and you get a "trendwhore" label for doing so )
    i usually get my inspiration from something completely unrelated to the actual field i'm working in. read a good book that has nothing to do with design. watch a good movie. listen to inspiring music (the kind that makes those images fly around in your mind). take a walk through a familiar place, but look at it with the fresh eyes of someone who's never been there (i do this all the time...if you always walked down this one particular road to get to a place, why not go down this OTHER way which you've never taken before...it might just look like another ordinary alley way, but you might discover hidden gems that you never suspected were there...damn, this DOES sound new-agey now, but i hope you know what i mean: don't overlook anything, don't take anything for granted, be "visually" inquisitive)
    b) research
    once you know what direction you're going to take in your design, try and see if you can research the area that your work relates to. find as much source material as possible about it...photocopies of old images, articles, etc. immerse yourself in the theme of your design. try and find the "hidden" connections, play with ideas that are the exact opposite to your original idea...anything to spark some connection that, in hindsight, appears obvious, but that most people can't be bothered to make
    c) technical competency
    ok, so now your idea is well formed, you have lots of material to work with, and it's time to execute the design. as many people have already commented, flash/photoshop/illustrator/whatever should just be a tool to realise your idea, and NOT the driving force that determines your idea. they're a means to an end. ideally, when you're working with these programmes, you should be so comfortable using them that you don't even think about them any more...basically it's your idea going from your brain straight to paper/web/flash/whatever. if you have to sit there and struggle your way through the programme to get a certain effect, this will inhibit your free flow of ideas and creativity. sure, it's important to know the limitations of each tool/medium (so yes, you won't have 25fps, full-screen video on the web...), but what you WANT to do should never be limited by what a program/medium CAN do. always try to push the boundaries, don't follow the crowd all the time (even though we all know the scenario when a client comes in and says "you know website X ? well, i want the same thing, just with MY logo at the top instead of X's").

    in my view b) and c) can be learnt in a "traditional" way (i.e. through hard work, doing tutorials, etc). a) is the one, though, that is more elusive. inspiration, and in particular the "fresh eyes" approach, can not be taught, but we all have a certain capability of getting inspirational thoughts, and if you actively work towards fostering/nourishing this capability inside you (even with some "design methods" used for creating ideas, like brainstorming/mindmapping/semantic techniques - like association of words, similar/opposite words and meanings, etc) your design will be stronger from it.

    jeez, this turned into quite a long-winded "rant", but i hope you get the idea. sure, there will always be "gifted" people who already do most of a) intuitively (and have acquired the skills for b) and c) ) - e.g. Mozart, to pick a totally off-topic example - while others will have to work hard on a) - and no, I'm not going to say Salieri now - but that's just life.

    as my good friend chavez liked to say "wenn luck zur gewohnheit wird nennt man es skill" (horrid mix of german and english, meaning "when luck becomes a habit, they call it skill"). and that's true in some cases as well: inspiration (a) can sometimes come from totally unforeseen, accidental things (you spill coffee in the morning, and the pattern/stain it leaves on your table looks kinda funky). the key is to actively RECOGNISE or be receptive to these things at all times (rather than saying "i'm having breakfast, i'll think about design and stuff later when i'm at work"). i always compare myself to a sponge...constantly absorbing anything that's around me (tid-bits of conversations, picking up pieces of garbage on the street because it caught my eye for some reason, etc)...

    ok, that's all for now...hope my opinion can be of some use to you. this matter really is subjective, so your mileage may vary...
    re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively
    [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.]
    WaSP Accessibility Task Force Member
    splintered.co.uk | photographia.co.uk | redux.deviantart.com

  14. #14
    not tyrael anymore.. Manores's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Izmir-Ankara-Istanbul / Turkey
    Posts
    431
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Hi redux

    I'm sorry that english is not my native language and the only way to show my gratitude to you is to say a simple "thank you". But believe me it's not that simple

    Thank you for sharing what you thought
    Nanaman never dies!
    Once I was Tyrael!

    I wish Wayne also could change my whole life as he did with my nick and made me a rally driver!

  15. #15
    gingham dress, army boots... silver trophy redux's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Salford / Manchester / UK
    Posts
    4,838
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    no problem
    just realised how long my post was and that it took me a good 15 minutes to write hehe
    re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively
    [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.]
    WaSP Accessibility Task Force Member
    splintered.co.uk | photographia.co.uk | redux.deviantart.com

  16. #16
    SitePoint Wizard iTec's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Location
    Sydney, Australia
    Posts
    2,243
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    well said redux!


Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •