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View Poll Results: Do you sleep, hibernate, or shut down computer?

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  • I leave it on and let it do whatever it does

    5 10.42%
  • I put it to sleep mode

    9 18.75%
  • I hibernate it

    4 8.33%
  • I shut it down

    30 62.50%
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  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisTurn View Post
    I never think it's really necessary to unplug the computer after shut it down but you guys make me see more clear this problem...Does this unplugged make long life time to the computer ?
    Most defects are manufacturing problems. Defects that may appear months or years later.

    Other problems - ie felgall's surge damage - are directly traceable to failure to install effective protectors. For example, if using a protector adjacent to the computer, then surge damage has been made easier. Those protectors do not even claim (see numeric specs) to provide necessary protection.

    Your telco's computer is connected to overhead wires all over town. It is threatened by about 100 surges with each thunderstorm. And must never fail. How often has your town been without phone service for four days while they replace that computer?

    Informed homeowners do what every telco does everywhere in the world. They don't waste massive sums on those ineffective plug-in protectors. They spend many times less money to install a protector where the wire enters the building and within feet of the single point earth ground. A protector without that short connection to earth is ineffective.

    To make the protector even better, your telco wants its protector up to 50 meters distant from electronics. Effective protection is made even better when separation exists between the protector and electronics.

    Effective 'whole house' protector (properly earthed) means a direct lightning strike to incoming wires is unknown. Even the protector must conduct that direct lightning strike and not fail. Nothing new. This was understood and routinely installed even 100 years ago.

    Which demonstrates how many know without first learning facts. Which demonstrates how so many (a majority) use retail salesmen as a replacement for science and knowledge.

    Ham radio operators in the early twentieth century would disconnect their antenna. Even put the antenna lead into a mason jar. And still suffer damage. Disconnecting is ineffective protection. Damage stopped when the antenna lead was earthed. That is what the 'whole house' protector does. That is why your telco provides telephone service during every thunderstorm and must not suffer damage. Please learn the science. Please dispose of myths that promote those ineffective plug-in protectors.

    Whereas manufacturing defects are the most common reason for computer failure; still every informed homeowner upgrades earthing to make one 'whole house' protector so effective.

    Even unplugging will never be as effective or as reliable as one 'whole house' protector.

  2. #52
    Follow: @AlexDawsonUK silver trophybronze trophy AlexDawson's Avatar
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    OK First off, I personally leave the computer on... though if I'm AFK for a long period of time I'll hit sleep mode, I have surge protectors (etc) to keep the lightning storms away and it's fine. I usually do it so people can leave me a message on instant messenger (for the ones offline messaging isn't available).

    As for the life of a PC, there is enough scientific proof that leaving your machine running rather than cold booting post shut down will extend the life of your PC. The main reason why this occurs is not down to heating or power, it's down to those delicate devices we call hard disks, because conventional hard disks are finely tuned when cold booting the hard disk is put under a temporary state of increased pressure (both in usage and the initial power hit to the magnetic bits and pieces inside). Arguably how much longer the PC will last is highly debatable and to be honest most people will upgrade their machines before the thing is likely to fail, but I can say for sure that I've seen several studies by hard disk manufacturers and well known technology experts (like Steve Gibson) who have concluded that cold booting a machine to a REALLY tiny extent increases the chances of failures (barely noticeable extent) and the concept of keeping your machine running (or in an active state - like standy / sleep with the HDD left on) has been proven effective. I should also point out that hibernate interestingly enough increased the chances of error even more than shutting down on the basis of the memory dump to the HDD being recalled on top of the initial boot stresses.

  3. #53
    SitePoint Addict markov's Avatar
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    I would shut down the PC completely.
    This will save the power too.

  4. #54
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    I have had bad experiences hibernating my PC...it winds up just shutting it down completely. I do not know if it was just a bug, but I didn't really see the whole point of hibernating it.

  5. #55
    Programming Since 1978 silver trophybronze trophy felgall's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlexDawson View Post
    OKI have surge protectors (etc) to keep the lightning storms away and it's fine.
    Surge protectors don't protect against lightning strikes. The surge from a lightning strike is generally many thousands of times the maximum rating of the surge protection.
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  6. #56
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    My power outlets have ground and they are working properly (like windows said : this device is working properly, it sounds strange for my latin language )and like Alex said I don't like cold booting, I think the simple shut down is enough...

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by felgall View Post
    Surge protectors don't protect against lightning strikes. The surge from a lightning strike is generally many thousands of times the maximum rating of the surge protection.
    Which is why plug-in proptectors are a scam promoted by myths purveyors. Which is why a $3 power strip with some ten cent protector parts and expensive paint sells to the naive for $150 with a Monster Cable label.

    Reality demosntrates how many routinely ignore reality for the same reason why so many *know* power cyclng is destructive.

    How does your telco's computer - connected to overhead wires all over town - that suffers about 100 surges with each thunderstorm - how does that computer not suffer surge damage from direct lightnings strikes? One is supposed to learn 100 year old technology before posting. Telcos install less expensive protectors, short to earth ground, and distant from electronics. Then telcos all over the world suffer no damage. Therefore towns all over the world have phone service all four days after every thunderstorm.

    Protection from direct lightning strikes is routine if 1) you do not listen to myth purveyors, 2) do not waste tens or 100 times more money on plug-in protectors, and 3) properly earth only one 'whole house' protector. That knowledge is well over 100 years old. And only understood by a minority who learn facts rather then be trained by hearsay from retail salesmen.

    Too often, surges get blamed for failures traceable to manufacturing defects - when only observation and speculation results in a conclusion.

  8. #58
    Follow: @AlexDawsonUK silver trophybronze trophy AlexDawson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by felgall View Post
    Surge protectors don't protect against lightning strikes. The surge from a lightning strike is generally many thousands of times the maximum rating of the surge protection.
    That may be true but this house has cut-off switches (fuse protectors) for when lightning hits the house and when it happens none of the equipment gets damaged. My surge protector has an external battery to assist my laptop so when everything goes out it kicks in the power when I need it to ensure I can carry on working.

  9. #59
    Follow Me On Twitter: @djg gold trophysilver trophybronze trophy Dan Grossman's Avatar
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    I lost a computer to a lightning strike, while plugged in to a surge protector.

    Partly because this was back when dialup was the only internet access available, and the surge went through both the electric and the phone lines.

    A TV, refrigerator, and all the phones were dead after it happened. The modem in the computer was fried.

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlexDawson View Post
    That may be true but this house has cut-off switches (fuse protectors) for when lightning hits the house and when it happens none of the equipment gets damaged. My surge protector has an external battery to assist my laptop so when everything goes out it kicks in the power when I need it to ensure I can carry on working.
    None of that is surge protection. How does the millimeter separation in that 'cut-off switches' stop what even three miles of sky could not? How does a switch that takes tens of milliseconds to open stop a surge that is done, destructively, in microseconds?

    I constantly complain about people who 'know' but never bother to first learn the numbers. What is the voltage on that cut-off switch? Hundreds of volts? That means an open switch continues to conduct electricity if the voltage is thousands of volts. More numbers that say a cut-off switch is an example of 'urban myth'.

    That external battery does what? From a first semester electrical course, that battery is nothing more than a conductor - electrically equivalent to a wire - to surge currents. That battery does nothing for protection. Even manufacturer specs numbers do not claim that protection. But again, a conclusion complete vanquished once we demand what are always required - technical numbers.

    Surge protectors are always installed for surges that can overwhelm existing appliance protection. Those rare surges are lightning. Why do telcos all over the world suffer about 100 surges with each lightning storm - without computer failure? Still provide telephone service all four days afterwards? Because telcos install surge protectors that actually do protect from direct lightning strikes. That means telcos do not waste money on ineffective and obscene profit devices from APC, Belkin, Tripplite, Cyberpower, or Monster Cable. Instead telcos spend tens or 100 times less money for protector that harmlessly earth direct lightning strikes.

    Telcos have been doing for 100 years what so many today deny. Deny because retails salesmen, for some stange reason, are electrical experts. Deny if a consumer never learns protection is always about where energy dissipates. A protector is only as effective as its earth ground - which plug-in protectors do not connect to and avoid all discussion of. Protection is a discussion of what provides protection - single point earth ground. Better for profit margins is to encourage myths that promote ineffective and undersized power strip protectors.

    Don Grossman demonstrates what has been well undestood for decades. Dr Martzloff describes Don's damage in his 1994 IEEE paper. Don's plug-in protector, also called 'point of connection' device, may earth surges destructively through nearby appliances. Most believe only what they were told to believe. Forget to ask simple and damning questions. This Dr Martzloff's first conclusion is not what most learn:
    > Conclusion:
    > 1) Quantitative measurements in the Upside-Down house clearly show objectionable
    > difference in reference voltages. These occur even when or perhaps because,
    > surge protective devices are present at the point of connection of appliances.

  11. #61
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    Just close the lid, of my laptop.

  12. #62
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    I completely turn off and unplug from sockets.

  13. #63
    Follow Me On Twitter: @djg gold trophysilver trophybronze trophy Dan Grossman's Avatar
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    Oh, interesting tidbit I forgot to mention.

    That modem in the computer that was killed by lightning... it was a Zoom modem with "Zoomguard Lightning Protection" advertised on the box. The surge through the phone lines that killed all the phones also killed this "lightning protected" modem and the motherboard it was attached to.


  14. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Grossman View Post
    That modem in the computer that was killed by lightning... it was a Zoom modem with "Zoomguard Lightning Protection" advertised on the box. The surge through the phone lines that killed all the phones also killed this "lightning protected" modem and the motherboard it was attached to.
    Modem looks exactly like some modems that were analyzed; then repaired to never fail again. Yes, all modems (like all electronics) contain surge protection. But protection from which type of surges? If it does not list each 'type', then it has protection only from surges that typically cause no damage. Why do you know? If it has protection, then each 'protection' is always defined by numbers.

    What failed in modems? In most every case, modem was destroyed by a surge entering on AC mains. Seeking earth ground destructively via that modem. Most often damaged part was a PNP transistor that drives an ‘off-hook’ relay. Anyone who does not do analysis that detailed has no idea what causes damage. Most with near zero knowledge automatically assume the surge entered on a phone line.

    In one case, a surge was earthed via two plug-in protectors connected to two powered off computers. Surge entered a third powered off computer via network cards. Then out to earth ground via modem and phone line. Yes, every NIC was also fixed by replacing the destroyed semiconductor. If I did not do that, then I knew (learned) nothing.

    Why is a PNP transistor damaged inside modems? The off-hook relay 'coil to wiper' voltage was only 500 volts. 500 volts for surge protection. Surge easily jumped that 500 volt galvanic isolation. (Notice the always required numbers.) Destructively through PNP transistor, through that off-hook relay, then to earth ground via phone line.

    Why to earth via phone line? All lines already have a 'whole house' protector. Installed for free by every telco because it is both so inexpensive and so much more effective. Most phone appliances are damaged when surges enter on AC mains. Find earth destructively via phone line. This contradicts popular myths that most everyone is told to believe using only observation and junk science reasoning.

    But again, how many learned about surge protection by working at this level of detail, technical expertise, and making lightning damaged electronics never fail again? Most do not learn or do any of this which is why so many post outright lies and myths about surge protection.

    Fundamental bottom line. Surge protection is always about where energy dissipates. If you let surge energy inside a building, then that energy must hunt for earth destructively via appliances. That modem's PNP transistor is one 'easiest' path to earth ground. Which is why surges incoming on AC mains so often found earth ground destructively via modems. Damage occurred because surge energy was permitted inside the building.

  15. #65
    Programming Since 1978 silver trophybronze trophy felgall's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by westom View Post
    Most with near zero knowledge automatically assume the surge entered on a phone line.
    In my case the equipment destroyed by the lightning strike was either only connected to the phone line or was on one particular electrical circuit inside the house. There was no way the surge from the lightning strike could enter the house and not affect equipment on any of the other power circuits as well unless it entered via the phone line. The only things plugged into both power and phone line were plugged into that particular electrical circuit and other equally sensitive equipment not plugged into the phone line were plugged into other electrical circuits within the house. There was no reason for a surge on the power line to specifically target equipment on just one of the power circuits unless the surge entered that power circuit inside the house and since the lighning strike was outside the only way it could have got in was via the phone line.
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  16. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by felgall View Post
    In my case the equipment destroyed by the lightning strike was either only connected to the phone line or was on one particular electrical circuit inside the house. There was no way the surge from the lightning strike could enter the house and not affect equipment on any of the other power circuits as well unless it entered via the phone line.
    Routine is for lightning to enter on AC electric, confront all appliances, and only damage a few. Which few? Which ones made the better connection to earth ground? Phone lines are earthed (via a protector installed by telcos on all subscriber interfaces). Therefore an excellent path for an incoming surge to earth is outgoing via phone line appliances.

    You are making a classic assumption. A surge enters on a wire. Destroys the first thing it encounters. Then stops. Surges do not crash on appliances like waves on a beach. It is electricity.

    First a surge conducts everywhere in the path from cloud to earth. Much later, something in that path fails. Often a weakest device is the phone wire side of an appliance. Damage is where the current was outgoing.

    Demonstrated from too many years of doing analysis is how surges actually do damage. Reality that contradicts so many urban myths.

    Why would a surge ignore a telco’s earthed protector. Then pass through your telephone appliance to obtain earth ground? It doesn't. It does to earth via that protector. Most common source of damaged phone line appliances is AC mains. Therefore answering machines, modems, fax machines, and portable phone base stations are often damaged. Conventional phones (without an AC connection) remains functional – no incoming surge path. Installing a ‘whole house’ protector on AC mains ended telephone appliance damage.

    Protetion is always about disspating energy harmlessly outside the building.

  17. #67
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    Fellgal, do the phone lines and mains power enter your house via overhaed cables or underground?
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  18. #68
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    I always shut it down to safe electric bill. Also I notice that if I shut it down and start new the next day, it can restart the memory so the computer can run faser

  19. #69
    Follow: @AlexDawsonUK silver trophybronze trophy AlexDawson's Avatar
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    All I was implying was that my house has been struck by lightning several times and I've never had ANY damaged equipment, the most that has happened is my PC cut out when the fuses went off (upon the lightning striking) and I lost a word document. Other than that I've never suffered the loss of electronics.

  20. #70
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    [QUOTE=AlexDawson;4526299]All I was implying was that my house has been struck by lightning several times and I've never had ANY damaged equipment, .... Other than that I've never suffered the loss of electronics. /QUOTE] You demonstrate that all appliances contain surge protection - are that robust.

    Earth only one 'whole house' protector so that the rare surge (that actually can cause damage) does not overwhelm protection inside appliances. In most nations, that is typically one surge every seven years. In the UK, destructive surges are less frequent. So spend about 1 per appliance so that even that surge causes no concern. And waste no money on mythical plug-in solutions.

    One effective protector means a rare and destructive surge does not overwhelm protection inside all appliances. Which appliances most require protection during the rare surge? Furnace? Telephone appliances (most often destroyed by surges on AC mains)? RCD? Appliances that most requires protection during a rare and massive surge are smoke detectors or the fire alarm system. Those are also protected only by earthing a 'whole house' protector. A least expensive solution is also the only solution well proven for over 100 years.

  21. #71
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    [quote=westom;4526613]
    Quote Originally Posted by AlexDawson View Post
    All I was implying was that my house has been struck by lightning several times and I've never had ANY damaged equipment, .... Other than that I've never suffered the loss of electronics. /QUOTE] You demonstrate that all appliances contain surge protection - are that robust.

    Earth only one 'whole house' protector so that the rare surge (that actually can cause damage) does not overwhelm protection inside appliances. In most nations, that is typically one surge every seven years. In the UK, destructive surges are less frequent. So spend about 1 per appliance so that even that surge causes no concern. And waste no money on mythical plug-in solutions.

    One effective protector means a rare and destructive surge does not overwhelm protection inside all appliances. Which appliances most require protection during the rare surge? Furnace? Telephone appliances (most often destroyed by surges on AC mains)? RCD? Appliances that most requires protection during a rare and massive surge are smoke detectors or the fire alarm system. Those are also protected only by earthing a 'whole house' protector. A least expensive solution is also the only solution well proven for over 100 years.
    Most smoke detectors in the UK are battery powered so don't need any protection.
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  22. #72
    Follow Me On Twitter: @djg gold trophysilver trophybronze trophy Dan Grossman's Avatar
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    Usually true in homes but in apartment buildings and office buildings smoke detectors are wired into the building's fire alarm system, so they can be monitored from the main panel and set off the building's alarms.

  23. #73
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    I am evil! As a recovering tree-hugger I really should shut down completely, but the iMac sleeps and wakes so effortlessly that I have become rather lazy and I hit sleep most of the time
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  24. #74
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    i shutdown it completely and also unplug,,,,,,,,,,,,

  25. #75
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    plug or unplug...this is the question


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